Metroid V: Dread(ing the future for the franchise)

[Theglassman12]

Any and all abilities that aren't implied or shown to be exclusive to the upgraded variations of the power suit should scale to fusion/dread.

 

[SomebodyData]

I don't know, I think being slightly conservative here is probably better. Like I said, we know the Fusion Suit is canonically inferior to the Legendary Suit, but still better than the original suit.

I don't see why, for example, the Fusion Suit would have Resistance to Antimatter Manip or Non-Physical Interaction (Specifically considering she can't destroy the X until the Metroid Suit). Same would apply for most of the Visors or the Hint System (Which Adam replaces)

BTW done with the profiles, just need images and to get the above resolved.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

That weakness/limitation mostly applies to Fusion, not so much Dread given the Nameless Omega Suit is basically a composite version of Legendary Suit and Fusion Suit, and what she wears throughout Dread is much of the same physical components but of course power ups were borrowed by the EMMI. But fully restored Dread Suit is the Omega Suit though it's better due to the Metroid Powers ect.

 

[SomebodyData]

That's what I thought initially too, but when I looked at the interviews which explicitly say the Omega Suit only (retconned into momentarily) heals Samus' DNA and does not actually restore the suit. While absorbing the SA-X began the process of regaining her Legendary Suit's level of powers and abilities, it's pretty clear it's not all there.

Case in point, after the Unnamed Suit transforms into the Dread Varia Suit, she actually loses her abilities and regains her weakness to cold. It's also shown in the concept art , although its probably non-canon.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

She doesn't have the weakness when she has the Gravity Suit power up.

 

[SomebodyData]

We're talking about the Dread Suit overall tho.

Also, she technically can still be affected by ice-based attacks, the Gravity Suit just insulates extreme cold environments.

 

[TheAccursedHunter01]

The only major difference I see between the Legendary Suit and the Fusion/Dread Suit is that the latter is less durable (this is only true for the Fusion Suit it seems) and having Metroid DNA in it. Going from Legendary to Fusion, most of the armor plating is taken off and Samus loses her power ups as a result, but gets Metroid DNA which causes the suit to form into the Fusion Suit. It's still the same model of Power Suit, it's just less durable without most of the armor plating and the Metroid DNA gives Samus a weakness to cold. The Metroid DNA stuff seems like it's adding onto what's already there since Samus' Power Suit seems to be able to acquire new stuff seemingly without limit since the maximum amount of power ups, Energy Tanks, Missiles, etcetera is only limited to how much Samus can find.

Samus needing the Gravity Suit in Dread to be protected from cold is a weird retcon since getting Varia in Fusion lets Samus survive in hot and cold rooms, absorb blue X without getting damaged (blue X freezing Samus from within pre-Varia Suit) as well as being unable to be frozen when hit by the SA-X's Ice Beam. Maybe this is due to the fact that the Dread Suit is in the middle of healing itself and isn't complete yet.

 

[SomebodyData]

Well, we really don't know the full consequences of the Fed removing all that technology. For example, her visor was explicitly shown to have been warped by the Fed and we know it's not just a design choice like in most games since SA-X maintains the og visor. The same even applies to all the SA-X vs Samus' abilities, if you pay attention to, for example, the Screw Attack between the two.

I didn't think of it as a retcon, though you're probably right. I thought that since Samus' Metroid DNA is reawakening, her weakness is starting to bleed through her suits, hence why the Varia Suit wasn't enough anymore.

 

[TheAccursedHunter01]

if you pay attention to, for example, the Screw Attack between the two.

In terms of aesthetic appearance, the SA-X having the Super Metroid Screw Attack could just be an aesthetic choice by the designers at the time considering the "Metroid Samus Returns" Screw Attack doesn't look like the Super Metroid/SA-X Screw Attack. I'd say this is significant since Super takes place right after Metroid 2/Samus Returns yet the Screw Attack looks different between games. The Super Metroid design is an electric buzzsaw of death and nothing's looked quit like it. There's also that part in Dread's prologue where Samus is attacking the Hornoad-X that originally infected her, her Varia Suit design looks like the Super Metroid version on the front but on the back it looks almost identical to the Samus Returns Varia Suit. I feel like aesthetic differences for some of the 2D games stuff (at least for Super Metroid) might just be aesthetic differences. In terms of how the SA-X uses the Screw Attack, she's able to float along the ground and use the Screw Attack as if it's a really powerful tackle. Samus can't do it in gameplay but she did something like it in Samus & Joey:

Samus charges up as if she's performing a DBZ power up and then launches forward, kind of like how the SA-X does.

 

[SomebodyData]

I under the intent behind it, I'm just pointing out that the difference exists in-verse and isn't just a game-by-game design change since the argument is that there wasn't a change to Samus' abilities.

Also, anyone have renders for Fusion Varia, Gravity, and Omega Suits? Surprisingly barren on the net.

EDIT: Publishing profiles now- will have to add more images and replace links tomorrow since it's incredibly late rn for me.

 

[Theglassman12]

I don't see why, for example, the Fusion Suit would have Resistance to Antimatter Manip or Non-Physical Interaction

You do realize the fusion suit still has the basic power suit abilities like the power beam right? The same thing that can affect Chozo Ghosts and Phantoon and it’s ghost minions? The X parasite not being destroyed doesn’t mean they can’t be affected, those are two different things, and no shit it took the Metroid suit to kill it when she literally becomes the natural predator for the X parasite.

 

[SomebodyData]

You might have misunderstood me, I think. I'm referring to Samus losing non-physical interaction after her X infection. After that, she can't just shoot them dead like she would, as you brought up, the Chozo Ghosts and Phantoon. It isn't until the Metroid Suit that she regains NPI which allows her to kill Raven Beak's core X.

If you did understand me, then I think you're not making sense. It's not even the same arm cannon, we see the Feds alter that when they removed the infected parts of Samus in both the manga and the game. Why would we give Fusion Samus NPI if she explicitly is shown not to be able to with intangible beings like the X. The Metroid Suit was just the full realization of her Metroid DNA- she already was a Metroid and their predator far before that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Wasn't she able to interact with the Chozo Ghost thing in Zero Mission in her Zero Suit though?

 

[Theglassman12]

When was she ever implied to lose NPI? The fact she can interact with any of the X parasites in their intangible phase says otherwise.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I think another reason is that the X-Virus is immaterial intangible for different reasons other than the Chozo Ghosts and Phantoon are. They have a combination of Immaterial and Spatial Intangibility the Chozo ghosts and Phantoon do; not only are they ghosts/spirits they're also native to a "Higher-dimensional plane" with the Chozo Ghosts even having statements about existing beyond space and time. X-Viruses are intangible via being digital rather than spiritual, which makes little sense given Samus Aran's attacks are also digital. But the concept of Fusion Suit is that the Metroid DNA allows her to physically eat the X-Viruses. Plus, even here Legendary Power Suit wasn't able to hit the X-Viruses either, so Fusion Samus not being able to hit them isn't an argument against her not having Non-Physical interaction when not even the same suit that can hit Chozo Ghosts and Phantoon was able to hit X-Viruses in the first place.

 

[SomebodyData]

Wasn't she able to interact with the Chozo Ghost thing in Zero Mission in her Zero Suit though?

Your Paralyzer goes through the ruins test and even the orb until the orb transforms, so it's just part of the trial.

When was she ever implied to lose NPI? The fact she can interact with any of the X parasites in their intangible phase says otherwise.

Aside from no longer being able to shoot intangible beings like the X? The point is that there is little evidence that Samus retains most of her abilities after canonically becoming much weaker, losing significant portions of her suit, altered, and repeated statements that the suit is essentially damaged goods. Also, Samus absorbs the X because of her DNA, not the suit which we're arguing about.

I think another reason is that the X-Virus is immaterial intangible for different reasons other than the Chozo Ghosts and Phantoon are. They have a combination of Immaterial and Spatial Intangibility the Chozo ghosts and Phantoon do; not only are they ghosts/spirits they're also native to a "Higher-dimensional plane" with the Chozo Ghosts even having statements about existing beyond space and time. X-Viruses are intangible via being digital rather than spiritual, which makes little sense given Samus Aran's attacks are also digital. But the concept of Fusion Suit is that the Metroid DNA allows her to physically eat the X-Viruses. Plus, even here Legendary Power Suit wasn't able to hit the X-Viruses either, so Fusion Samus not being able to hit them isn't an argument against her not having Non-Physical interaction when not even the same suit that can hit Chozo Ghosts and Phantoon was able to hit X-Viruses in the first place.

The Parasite X's intangibility doesn't come from being digital tho? I'm not even sure where that came from.

I thought Legendary Varia Suit Samus just missed, considering how nonchalant Samus was about the ordeal.

 

[Theglassman12]

When did she interact with the X prior to her suit being lost? You do realize her absorbing the X by default shoots your argument in the foot that she can’t affect them in fusion suit right?

 

[SomebodyData]

When did she interact with the X prior to her suit being lost? You do realize her absorbing the X by default shoots your argument in the foot that she can’t affect them in fusion suit right?

Like I said, Samus absorbs the X because of her DNA, not the suit which we're arguing about. Also, this is just one of the abilities I named here, the focus on only NPI shows that there is little backing for basically everything else.

 

[Theglassman12]

You haven’t answered my question on Samus being able to interact with the X parasite prior to the fusion suit. Cause that’s like your only example to prove she lacks the basic shit her other suits have

 

[Hagane_no_Saiyajin]

What is up with this profile?

We already have one Samus Aran profile for all of the games

Was there a CRT I'm unaware of?

 

[Theglassman12]

@SomebodyData why does Samus have an unknown tier if she has town class striking strength? Shouldn't she be 7-C instead of Unknown?

 

[SomebodyData]

You haven’t answered my question on Samus being able to interact with the X parasite prior to the fusion suit. Cause that’s like your only example to prove she lacks the basic shit her other suits have

Well I didn't answer your question because like I said, I thought you were confused; I never said Samus interacted with the X prior to the Fusion Suit.

Only the Legendary Suit has NPI, so you might wanna rethink that. Also I mentioned like, 3 other examples in my inital post. The Hint System / Scan Visor was replaced by Adam, her suit's Regeneration is completely gone until she reabsorbs the Unnamed Suit (Which only provided a very weak version), she's even lost her ability to connect to her space ship (Although admittedly, that's probably the spaceship's fault)

What is up with this profile?

We already have one Samus Aran profile for all of the games

Was there a CRT I'm unaware of?

It was decided that given how big her profile was gonna become, it was better to split it apart.

@SomebodyData why does Samus have an unknown tier if she has town class striking strength? Shouldn't she be 7-C instead of Unknown?

Outdated, halfway thru the profile's creation that her ZSS rating for AP was changed.

 

[Theglassman12]

Aside from no longer being able to shoot intangible beings like the X?

She never once hit the X when she was in her normal suit at all. Again this is complete headcanon as her being unable to interact with the X was a thing even in her stronger suits, she gains the ability to interact with them in her fusion suit, if anything she just gets a far more versatily NPI by affecting different forms of intangible beings.

ADAM is no different than the chozo statues in Zero mission which tells her where to go. She's always had a scan visor even back in the basic suit as she can scan the unknown upgrades back then. Uhh do you have any statements that she lost the regen from her suit? Was her trying to contact her ship relevant throughout the main chunk of fusion? She was trying to kill the X parasites, not run away.

 

[SomebodyData]

I see the confusion, I said intangible beings like the X in referring to beings that are also intangible. I.e. the Chozo Ghost or Phantoon. Not the X themselves.

Need to explain again that I'm talking about her no longer having the abilities of her legendary suit- not her basic suit from Zero mission. Samus didn't use the scan visor on the unknown items in Zero Mission, what are you talking about? The backstory of the Dread Suit is that her suit finally started regening after obtaining the Unnamed Suit, which entails that she lost her regen before it. Samus was forced to communicate with Adam through several computer rooms in Fusion- she could no longer directly communicate with her ship that Adam's A.I. was on.

 

[Theglassman12]

chozo ghosts are literal ghosts, they're non corporeal by their very nature. They're not merely intangible.

She does use it on the unknown items, her suit literally tries to analyze the space jump, plasma beam and gravity suit she gets and they mention it's unknown and uncryptable.

 

[SomebodyData]

chozo ghosts are literal ghosts, they're non corporeal by their very nature. They're not merely intangible.

She does use it on the unknown items, her suit literally tries to analyze the space jump, plasma beam and gravity suit she gets and they mention it's unknown and uncryptable.

You're really just gonna argue semantics? You get the point - Samus could destroy intangible / non corp beings with her suit before but cannot afterwards.

She doesn't use the scan visor on the items, you're actively being disingenuous here by treating the scan visor as the same as Samus's internal suit analyzing what it just got.

 

[Theglassman12]

it's not semantics as it's far better than intangibility by default.

Again, she scans the items she gets, that's still information analysis since her suit is analyzing the items she gets, to say she lacks that when her basic power suit has that in the beginning of zero mission is being disengenuous here.

 

[TheAccursedHunter01]

Being able to effect the Chozo Ghosts was an inherent property of the Power Beam since it isn't a natural energy source like fire, ice, and electricity. The Power Beam is still Samus' default weapon since the doors Samus opens in Dread are labeled as Power Beam Doors. The X being unaffected by the Power Beam could be because the Power Beam just lacks enough power to do anything to the X in their base forms since Power Bombs only stun them for a few seconds but the Hyper Beam obliterates them almost instantly.

One thing about the Chozo Ghosts I thought of mentioning at some point but always forgot. You know how electronics get messed up or shut off when a ghost effects the environment? That's exactly what happens when the Chozo Ghosts appear to attack Samus, yet her suit remains active. Is this because of how advanced the Power Suit is or is it a combination of multiple things? Something I thought I'd throw out in case someone at some point might think that Samus' suit might get adversely effected by ghosts/magic stuff just showing up since the Power Suit is technology when that's not what will happen. Kind of like how I've seen people believe that Samus' suit would shut down if hit by an EMP when Samus can get hit by the Prime 2 Pirate Commandos EMP Grenades and it just mucks with her visor for a few seconds.

 

[SomebodyData]

it's not semantics as it's far better than intangibility by default.

Again, she scans the items she gets, that's still information analysis since her suit is analyzing the items she gets, to say she lacks that when her basic power suit has that in the beginning of zero mission is being disingenuous here.

I mean, okay. That only better proves my point though. So I'm still confused here. How is Samus, being able to destroy non-corp beings with her arm cannon, then post-fusion not being able to even destroy intangible beings with her arm cannon, not a downgrade?

I specifically said Scan Visor. You keep attributing the suit's ability to analyze itself as the same thing as the scan visor. That's disingenuous.

Being able to effect the Chozo Ghosts was an inherent property of the Power Beam since it isn't a natural energy source like fire, ice, and electricity. The Power Beam is still Samus' default weapon since the doors Samus opens in Dread are labeled as Power Beam Doors. The X being unaffected by the Power Beam could be because the Power Beam just lacks enough power to do anything to the X in their base forms since Power Bombs only stun them for a few seconds but the Hyper Beam obliterates them almost instantly.

One thing about the Chozo Ghosts I thought of mentioning at some point but always forgot. You know how electronics get messed up or shut off when a ghost effects the environment? That's exactly what happens when the Chozo Ghosts appear to attack Samus, yet her suit remains active. Is this because of how advanced the Power Suit is or is it a combination of multiple things? Something I thought I'd throw out in case someone at some point might think that Samus' suit might get adversely effected by ghosts/magic stuff just showing up since the Power Suit is technology when that's not what will happen. Kind of like how I've seen people believe that Samus' suit would shut down if hit by an EMP when Samus can get hit by the Prime 2 Pirate Commandos EMP Grenades and it just mucks with her visor for a few seconds.

Nah, the Power Beam just goes through them. If it was a power issue, it wouldn't. Same for Samus' equipment stronger than the Power Bomb.

I always assumed that part of it was the biological / willpower element of her suit that kept Samus' suit on. That or she's resistant to magic, though I'd think we need more evidence for that. That reminds me though, does Samus have EMP Resistance on her profile? I'll go check in a bit.

 

[Theglassman12]

What intangible things? The X parasite? Cause again Samus couldn't kill it in before the fusion suit was a thing. That's not a downgrade if she couldn't do the feat of interacting with the X in the first place.

It's still information analysis as her armor is scanning the materials she's collecting, and again we have no confirmation that she only got the scan visor from the legendary suit, you'd need to prove that she only got it from the legendary suit.

 

[TheAccursedHunter01]

I always assumed that part of it was the biological / willpower element of her suit that kept Samus' suit on. That or she's resistant to magic, though I'd think we need more evidence for that.

I don't remember if magic has been explicitly used in the series, unless you count whatever energy the Chozo Ghosts throw at Samus or the giant hand projections from Mogenar (Looking at Wikitroid it says that Mogenar could be one of the golems built by the Last Lord of Science and is a combination of magic and science). Magic is a thing that exists and the Chozo know about it, so you figure Samus' Power Suit can defend against it if it's some sort of conventional attack at least.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yooo Metroid Dread has sold 2.9 million copies and is now the best selling game in the series

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Yes, that is kind of old news though. It's still true, but not something we haven't heard before.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Actually it's not old news, before it was only known to have the best debut. It's only recently that they've revealed that it's now beaten Metroid Prime for the best selling title. It's not surprising in the slightest but it's nice to see Dread getting close to 3 million.

 

[Theglassman12]

considering the game awards also gave dread some spotlight, maybe the series will finally stop being niche for once.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Game Awards is fairly rigged against Nintendo Franchise games tbh. Projared putting it as game of the year 2021 is based however.

 

[Theglassman12]

You say that like BOTW didn’t win numerous GOTY awards when it came out.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm specifically talking about "The Game Awards" Youtube channel. And there are a few other channels that did the same. Metroid Dread wasn't even mentioned in that video despite there being clips of the game on their video. It's also the same channel that gave The Last of Us 2 game of the year 2020 when despite no one really voting for that game compared to games like New Horizons or Doom Eternal. The latter was up there but the former was like not even mentioned due to being a Nintendo Franchise game. 2019 also had a lot of Nintendo franchise games that took critical acclaim by storm; Fire Emblem Three Houses, Luigi's Mansion 3, and Link's Awakening HD. None of which were even mentioned in Game Awards despite using the Dimitri meme.

 

[JJSliderman]

Quick question:

Is it possible to tag Chozo Ghosts or Dark Commandos while they’re phased out of spacetime?

 

[TheAccursedHunter01]

Yes, Samus can locate and hit Chozo Ghosts with the X-Ray Visor, same for the Dark Commandos once Samus gets the Dark Visor. One thing to note though is that once Chozo Ghosts/Dark Commandos dash from one location to another you can't hurt them while they're dashing from what I remember, but once that stand still they can be damaged. How much of this is gameplay mechanics is anyone's guess.

Without the X-Ray/Dark Visor, the Chozo Ghosts/Dark Commandos seem to vanish when they dash from one location to the next. This moment seems to be when they phase out of existence/teleport, but the X-Ray/Dark Visor allows Samus to see the Chozo Ghosts/Dark Commandos at al times.