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Metroid V: To Infinity and Beyond

JJSliderman said:
Well the Mother Elf itself can be corrupted (that was a big thing in the Zero games)
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I am aware, but that would need Samus to bypass Zero's already existent resistances which work on an Info type 2 scale, and if ME ever comes out, samus is just dead on the spot
 
Just going off of raw stats Samus doesn't really have a chance, X just needs to fight normally and he'll win. The Plasma/Wave Beam can ignore X's durability but the Metroid Drain is the only thing Samus can use that might do something substantial as unlikely as it might be for Samus to use this ability. However, the big thing in my mind is the Mother Elf. Even if Samus could do something despite the stat gap, the Mother Elf just shuts down everything. If Samus can't do anything about the Mother Elf then there isn't really a debate, X sweeps. There's also the fact that despite getting drained by the baby Metroid at the end of Super Metroid, Mother Brain came back from being a dried out husk. She's the only one to have done this, but it's still something to note. You could say that Mother Brain had some sort of back up just in case a Metroid attacked her, but there's no information on anything like this that I know of.
 
After double checking stuff about the Darkburst I also looked at the Sonic Boom and the only thing the description says about it is that "it projects a wave of sonic force." That is super vague. Wikitroid describes it as causing a ripple through reality which wouldn't surprise me but that's not in the description anywhere. If that was true how would you quantify the power of getting hit by "a rip in the fabric of reality"?

Side note how does a matter-antimatter weapon interface with sonic technology specifically? Granted a weapon that has the power of the Annihilator Beam and that it fires anti-matter would cause a lot of noise but sonic stuff shouldn't be it's most noteworthy attribute, unless there's some sciency thing behind this that I'm unaware of.
 
One side note about the Melee Counter that should be added to Samus' profile is that the Melee Counter can be used in Morph Ball and during a Slide. I'm sure plenty of people don't know that since I didn't know about until I was told about it. Might also want to add that it can be used in mid air as well as on the ground. Now that I double checked Samus' techniques on her Post-Fusion profile the Dash Melee is missing, that ought to be added too.


 
Hi. Question about Samus Zero Mission MHS+ speed rating via moving at Supersonic speeds on a planet with 960x gravity. How was it calculated? Like, is there a formula or something?
 
Supersonic ranges from Mach 1.2 to Mach 4.9; which in turn translates to Mach 1152 and Mach 4704 respectively as far as I'm aware. Though I also notice formulas like that don't quite take relativity into account as moving Relativistic on 10 G's =/= being FTL on 1 G. Though for lower levels, it shouldn't be effected too much.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Supersonic ranges from Mach 1.2 to Mach 4.9; which in turn translates to Mach 1152 and Mach 4704 respectively as far as I'm aware. Though I also notice formulas like that don't quite take relativity into account as moving Relativistic on 10 G's =/= being FTL on 1 G. Though for lower levels, it shouldn't be effected too much.
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I see. Though is there a formula to translate that to higher numbers?

I basically have a character moving Mach 1282 (lighting speed) in 10,000x normal gravity. And I've been wondering what the speed upscale would be.
 
Not sure if this might be considered calc stacking, but something along the lines of being able to move at X velocities on a gravity of G. Is that we assume traditional KE is G^2 times higher than one would be moving on 1 G environments of said velocity and then reverse calculate what velocity they would be while taking relativity into account. But that's especially difficult for Relativistic+ since realistically; even multiplying KE by Googleplex numerals would still be within the Relativistic+ range as one needs to actually reach infinite KE to actually reach SoL.
 
TheAccursedHunter01 said:
Just going off of raw stats Samus doesn't really have a chance, X just needs to fight normally and he'll win. The Plasma/Wave Beam can ignore X's durability but the Metroid Drain is the only thing Samus can use that might do something substantial as unlikely as it might be for Samus to use this ability. However, the big thing in my mind is the Mother Elf. Even if Samus could do something despite the stat gap, the Mother Elf just shuts down everything. If Samus can't do anything about the Mother Elf then there isn't really a debate, X sweeps. There's also the fact that despite getting drained by the baby Metroid at the end of Super Metroid, Mother Brain came back from being a dried out husk. She's the only one to have done this, but it's still something to note. You could say that Mother Brain had some sort of back up just in case a Metroid attacked her, but there's no information on anything like this that I know of.
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it's also does not help that X can just spam "time stop" multiple times (dark hold ) /turn invincible for short time/beam saber reflect projectiles. which his ultimate armor give unlimited ammo
 
Just wondering, are there a lot of instances of Samus increasing in power with her base suits from game to game? The only time I recall it happened was Varia Samus defeating Dark Samus at the beginning of Prime 2, who is a manifestation of Phazon Suit Samus that is far stronger than Prime 1 Varia.
 
With all of the rumors of the Switch successor coming out next year, I wonder if this means Prime 4 is close to finishing development. I'd be surprised if we don't have at least a little glimpse of it this year.
 
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BrackishBrineBroth said:
With all of the rumors of the Switch successor coming out next year, I wonder if this means Prime 4 is close to finishing development. I'd be surprised if we don't have at least a little glimpse of it this year.
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Yeah, I think that might be a reason is it's intended to be one of the first games released for the next system. And in the mean time, we may get HD port bundle of Prime 2 and 3 in the same boat that we got Pikmin 1+2 for.
 
I've been looking into Metroid scaling a bit and since the pages lack a lot of scans, I wanted to ask if people could help me understand the context of two feats on the profiles. If preferable I can make a Q&A thread.
  1. Why is Mother Brain's shield assumed to scale to the 6-B missiles? They're in two different manga and in my understanding there's no statement that links them
  2. What is the source of Dark Samus absorbing all of Phaaze? I understand she is fought on it but I don't know if it's just assumed off of that.
 
Can’t answer definitely for the first one but for the second, she basically fused with the planet by virtue of fusing with the Aurora Unit that was symbiotically connected to the planet.

For the first one I suppose it’s more retroactively applying the bunker busters to the shields from the first game, since S&J treats these missiles as having existed in a time period before the first game, meaning that if the two exist in the same continuity then the space pirates would have been able to use them.
 
Btw guys, I'm thinking of trying to 100% Metroid fusion. is that a good idea? the thing is IDK all the location of stuff but Im going to at least try to find them myself
 
Some of the puzzles can be tricky, especially the shinespark ones in sector six. But you can do it!

The real challenge is getting all of the endings in that game, especially if you're doing the 1% run in the Japanese version.
 
BrackishBrineBroth said:
Some of the puzzles can be tricky, especially the shinespark ones in sector six. But you can do it!

The real challenge is getting all of the endings in that game, especially if you're doing the 1% run in the Japanese version.
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the 1% ending? is like the least amount done?
 
Yeah I see there is a lot to go over, I do have some counters though (namely to the ice beam, white hole, dark Samus, power bomb, and ship scaling debunks).

Actually maybe there are some other feats that could be added, like the Darkburst potentially being a black hole or Samus tanking the white hole going off in her face due to appearing in Fusion alive (if it wasn’t an outlier)
 
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Just touching Phazon is enough to activate most of its abilities, since Phazon itself is a pseudo living substance.

Outside of things like regeneration and dimension travel anyway.
 
StretchSebe said:
Hello all.

Armor neglected to mention that he is planning to severely downgrade Metroid soon.

Probably compile feats/calcs/evidence in advance of the inevitable thread of course to defend the current tiering. Also, account for the 'anti-feats' listed. Most are just super-specific moments/cutscenes that don't seem to have anything to do with anything relevant to tiering, but still.
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Is this a fucking sting operation? Lmao

Yeah, I am planning to revise the verse (obviously you would focus on just the tiering but i'm also redoing P&A and calculating new feats), and a few people in this community are already aware of this, given I reached out to them in DMs for opinions (Chariot and Glassman, for starters). Me "neglecting to mention" something isn't purposefully withholding the information for some nefarious means, it's me not trying to share information that is still very much in beta, and originally not even meant for a thread. The reason that the arguments aren't very convincing still is because they aren't arguments, they're just me jotting down notes (Which is why some of it is poorly framed or much ruder than I would normally be). Regardless, I don't see what makes you think you have the right to share what is ultimately still private, work-in-progress material.
 
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StretchSebe said:
Hello all.

Armor neglected to mention that he is planning to severely downgrade Metroid soon.

Probably compile feats/calcs/evidence in advance of the inevitable thread of course to defend the current tiering. Also, account for the 'anti-feats' listed. Most are just super-specific moments/cutscenes that don't seem to have anything to do with anything relevant to tiering, but still.
Click to expand...
Not cool though to get into his sandbox and share it without his permission when it's not even something he's been sharing out yet to frame it as him sneakily trying to plot against everyone. This isn't really noted under the rules but its still not behavior you should go about on the wiki here. I for one also have sandboxes with extensive indexing for verses I want to revise that I haven't shared yet so if ya dive into those and throw it all around and frame me as being sneaky about it that'd be pretty shitty.
 
JJSliderman said:
Oh, my apologies, wasn’t aware it was private.
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It was. I don't blame people for looking, that's the natural human instinct, but it is pretty scummy to share it.

Regardless, cat's out of the bag, not that I'd have not openly discussed it if asked. I disagree with a lot of current Metroid tiers and P&A, and I generally think that the indexing quality of the verse could go up (Scans and references, mostly). I've been open about this on and off-site, to think that me not immediately strutting in and announcing it like I'm challenging every supporter to a honorable duel is somehow not acceptable is indicative of an extremely unhealthy "us vs them" mentality. Not that I would expect better.
 
I've had the sandbox deleted. Obviously anyone obsessive enough to go looking through my edit history or whatever once can do so again, and I don't care enough to move the sandbox to another wiki or conceal it in some other way (because frankly I find the idea that I would ever need to deeply stupid). I would formally ask that people do not do so again, and that those with the capacity to look through the deleted sandbox refrain from doing that. It is not finished, and its contents are not indicative of any threads I will eventually make. I already don't even agree with some of its contents anymore, especially the Samus & Joey stuff.
 
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I'm helping a bit 🫠
I'm gonna go through Super soon and get clips

It isn't a """""""'downgrade""""""", it's a revision, an overhaul. what matters is if it's consistent and checks out. Armor isn't going in there like "damn I gotta ******* downgrade everything, **** dem burds man lol", it's "hmm, hey does this check out?", if it does, cool, if it doesn't, well damn sucks I guess.
It ain't even strictly downgrading, like hax and abilities likely to be added at the very least, and I can at the very least guarantee some sort of LS upgrade given I'm gonna be taking care of that, and hell, if stuff is found that'd keep some shit the same or upgrade it, well, then there's that. Plus as he's said, he's already changed his stance on some stuff, like he isn't some evil ass dr doom rubbing his hands, a lot of this shit he's been asking opinions on if it checks or not.

Like lads it ain't a witch hunt, nothing is even concrete yet, let the man ******* work
 
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Chariot190 said:
I'm helping a bit 🫠
I'm gonna go through Super soon and get clips

It isn't a """""""'downgrade""""""", it's a revision, an overhaul. what matters is if it's consistent and checks out. Armor isn't going in there like "damn I gotta ******* downgrade everything, **** dem burds man lol", it's "hmm, hey does this check out?", if it does, cool, if it doesn't, well damn sucks I guess.
It ain't even strictly downgrading, like hax and abilities likely to be added at the very least, and I can at the very least guarantee some sort of LS upgrade given I'm gonna be taking care of that, and hell, if stuff is found that'd upgrade keep some shit the same or upgrade it, well, then there's that. Plus as he's said, e's already changed his stance on some stuff, like he isn't some evil ass dr doom rubbing his hands, a lot of this shit he's been asking opinions on if it checks or not. q

Like lads it ain't a witch hunt, nothing is even concrete yet, let the man ******* work
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Yeah

I did privately inform SomebodyData when someone shown me. And I also thought it was a bad idea to publicly dump it even if it wasn't against the rules, it is still shady to cause a potential uproar like that. And even if it was proposed, it's the wisest approach to not let on that people are aware so any "Counter arguments" could be prepared before the source counter arguing against gets removed.

There are also a few points that are worth acknowledging even if it won't actually lead to a downgrade per say. An example is the Low 4-C calculation, while I do strongly agree with it being usable for scaling; I will note that the way they're worded in the profiles is paradoxical. It assumes it comes from Dark Samus' durability which in turn scales to Light Suit Samus' AP; when it should be the opposite. The calculation is based on an AP feat for Light Suit Samus and it scales to Dark Samus via power scaling from taking hits from her. Because in the case of Dark Samus surviving the destruction of the pocket dimension + the planet, it looks more like a regeneration feat than a durability feat.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
I did privately inform SomebodyData when someone shown me. And I also thought it was a bad idea to publicly dump it even if it wasn't against the rules, it is still shady to cause a potential uproar like that. And even if it was proposed, it's the wisest approach to not let on that people are aware so any "Counter arguments" could be prepared before the source counter arguing against gets removed.
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😐 you shouldn't be sharing it at all man, at least fucking ask
DarkDragonMedeus said:
There are also a few points that are worth acknowledging even if it won't actually lead to a downgrade per say. An example is the Low 4-C calculation, while I do strongly agree with it being usable for scaling; I will note that the way they're worded in the profiles is paradoxical. It assumes it comes from Dark Samus' durability which in turn scales to Light Suit Samus' AP; when it should be the opposite. The calculation is based on an AP feat for Light Suit Samus and it scales to Dark Samus via power scaling from taking hits from her. Because in the case of Dark Samus surviving the destruction of the pocket dimension + the planet, it looks more like a regeneration feat than a durability feat.
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I am aware of why that is treated the way it is, I still disagree with the viability of the feat, but I plan to discuss that in a thread proper.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Got a question about phazon that I wanted to know since I have some MU's in mind, how many of the abilities it grants is passive and how much needs to be manually activated by the user. From the page it looks like most of it is passive?
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A lot is passive (such as radiation and its effects), others are contact-based (I'm decently sure mind and soul hax is, but i could be misremembering), and others are reactive (mainly stuff that ***** over precog users)
 
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