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Megami Tensei General Discussion Thread

If Edogawa wasn't meant to be reliable then why would they dedicate entire extra content to him explaining mechanics of the verse in Persona 4 😭
 
Hastur451 said:
The link won't load for me.
Click to expand...
UrI7dEN.png


Though the story does not say anything explicitly, it is reasonable to assume that they are creations of the human mind. This question, at the heart of Megaten's world view, a series which includes several gods and demons from folklore and myths from around the world, has carried over into later entries in the series. Though not a purposeful answer to this question, the concept of Personas in the Persona series, which was derived from SMT If..., are "masks" in which demons exist, created by the human heart. The fact that the next numbered title in the Shin Megami Tensei series featured the protagonist as the "Demi-Fiend" is not unrelated. Megaten would go on to create a new generation of games after If..., But SMT If... was the game that started it all.

Hastur451 said:
A regular person doesn't seem like a reliable source.
Click to expand...
💀
 
Chaotic_Existentialist said:
UrI7dEN.png


Though the story does not say anything explicitly, it is reasonable to assume that they are creations of the human mind. This question, at the heart of Megaten's world view, a series which includes several gods and demons from folklore and myths from around the world, has carried over into later entries in the series. Though not a purposeful answer to this question, the concept of Personas in the Persona series, which was derived from SMT If..., are "masks" in which demons exist, created by the human heart. The fact that the next numbered title in the Shin Megami Tensei series featured the protagonist as the "Demi-Fiend" is not unrelated. Megaten would go on to create a new generation of games after If..., But SMT If... was the game that started it all.


💀
Click to expand...
What is the source for the page?
 
Opinion of the final bosses of Vengeance?
Especially the penultimate boss of the law route
 
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Demifiend said:
Opinion of the final bosses of Vengeance?
Especially the penultimate of the law route
Click to expand...
im going chaos, so i cant say anything about Law. But Tiamat was really having me ****** up, but in the end it was fun. And it was amazing to be rewarded with such a hype scene.

"To slay a godly dragon, you need a godly dragon-slayer." TEN OUT OF TEN SCENE, THE PINNACLE OF SMT!

But before i move onto the chaos route penultimate boss, im trying to take on Samael. After those two, I guess I only have Shiva and the Demi-Fiend left.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
im going chaos, so i cant say anything about Law. But Tiamat was really having me ****** up, but in the end it was fun. And it was amazing to be rewarded with such a hype scene.

"To slay a godly dragon, you need a godly dragon-slayer." TEN OUT OF TEN SCENE, THE PINNACLE OF SMT!
Click to expand...

FR, that shit was pure adrenaline.
About the law route, the penultimate boss can be really interesting scaling wise.
Pls: can you tell me how to use the spoiler thing?
 
Demifiend said:

nvm i get it
Click to expand...
Yup, that's the spoiler way. You can also click or tap the 3 dots by the image icon, and then click the eye that's cross out. It ends up boxing whatever you're trying to hide, and you can even name it to give more context. You can also help use it to break up text walls, or revision posts.
 
AnAverageUsername said:
Yup, that's the spoiler way. You can also click or tap the 3 dots by the image icon, and then click the eye that's cross out. It ends up boxing whatever you're trying to hide, and you can even name it to give more context. You can also help use it to break up text walls, or revision posts.
Click to expand...
Thanks
 
I've been playing Dx2 again.
Do we consider it?

Currently, there's an Ouroboros event. I'm not fully through the plot yet, but part of it is it puts characters into illusions. Capable of doing so with "a glare" for Motoyama, 1 of the antagonists -I forget how it does for the protagonists- which "renders Motoyama immobile". The protagonists, OF COURSE, broke free through "willpower". OF COURSE.

Ouroboros's illusion is an apparently looping space of the place they entered. It later shows them another.

Also, it has some statements:
"Ouroboros: I have observed all worlds since the dawn of time, And in each one, the calamity wrought by Vanitas Sinks humanity into a pit of despair. The illusion you saw was a particularly horrific demise Which Vanitas had a direct hand in. To break free of that..."
Megakin: "H-Hold up. You mean-"
Rika: "That thing, the one that killed us...Was Vanitas?"
Gakuto: "THAT'S what we're up against?"
Ouroboros: "Even if Vanitas destroys you and your world, You each have the strength to resist and fight on,".

Somewhat out of context, & not the full dialogue... I only screencapped part of it; Replay story is a possibility.

Anyway still.... So that's neat.

There is at least 1 "horrific future" (I'm not sure, but it sounds like it showed them all the same world.) where the Liberators die to Vanitas.
& Ouroboros claims to "have observed all worlds since the dawn of time" And in each one, the calamity wrought by Vanitas Sinks humanity into a pit of despair."

IDK if this is relevant, but just thought it might be interesting.
Especially since it means Vanitas wins in basically every world, apparently, & against the Liberators at least once.
 
Imaginym said:
Disappointing, but thanks for the information.

Incidentally, I assume Dx2 is canon mostly because it's official & consistent, despite all the crossovers, ye?

Sorry for any bother, BTW.
Click to expand...
Pretty much, tbh.

Also, the Ouroboros statement of them looking over all worlds is nice, though.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Pretty much, tbh.

Also, the Ouroboros statement of them looking over all worlds is nice, though.
Click to expand...
I thought it might be redundant.

Although, checking this profile, it could be helpful for an Intelligence justification.
Intelligence: Unknown, likely Extraordinary Genius

Maybe also stuff like Clairvoyance?
Seeing "all worlds since the dawn of time" might also give stuff depending on how they saw it? Present at creation? Possibly a Self-Sustenance of some kind?
Probably some kind of Longevity &/or Immortality Type 1?
 
Surprising. I'm not sure what's wrong with it.
Though, I'm not familiar with SMT profiles in general.
 
Speaking of profiles, I think I'll start cooking up Khonsu's profile soon. Maybe tomorrow or after that.
 
Got to the next cutscene in the Dx2 Ouroboros plot.

＞ Ouroboros's regeneration can't keep up >with the Liberators' ceaseless onslaught. Then-

Ouroboros: "Hehe... Splend...Did..."


＞ Ouroboros vanishes without another word.


Megakin: "Did...We win...?"
Rika: "It's finally over..."
Ririn: "Where's Makoto?!"

Megakin: "Without Ouroboros, this infinite space should be gone -"
Ouroboros: "I commend your skills. It was only once, but you defeated me."
Shiang Sun: "What?!"
Gakuto: "We didn't beat it?!"
Ouroboros: "No, you won. However, I am the master of infinity and rebirth. No matter my existence, none can truly vanquish me."
Vince: "Asshole..."
Ouroboros: "Lament not. After all, mere humans like you bested me once."
Megakin: "...Change of plans, Shionyan. We need to fall back, but..."
Shiori: "Problem is, where's the hostage?"
Ouroboros: "Oh? You know you've lost yet refuse to abandon your rescue?"
Shiori: "Duh. We determined this fight was the best way to do that. From the very start, our goal was never to beat you."
Ririn: "We're here to save Makoto! That's all!"
Player character: "We won't give up." OR "We'll bring him home.". (I chose "We'll bring him home.".)
Ouroboros: "Even in this hopeless situation, your resolve stands firm... Human despair begets surrender. Regardless, you've all demonstrated fierce resistance. Magnificent. Despite the limitations of your mortal coil, that tenacious drive to fight eternal anguish, although faint, holds boundless possibilities."
Megakin: "Boundless possibilities?"
Ouroboros: "If it's you, perhaps this world won't end like every other... Hehehe. In the interim, I shall watch what unfolds..."

＞Ouroboros vanishes into thin air.

Gakuto: "...NOW is it over?"
Megakin: "Looks like it..."
Ririn: "Makoto! Where's Makoto?!"

＞Ririn opens the door to the previously endless space. ＞A new room appears with a young boy collapsed inside.

Makoto: "..."
Ririn: "Makoto!"

＞Ririn runs towards him with Shiori close behind.

Makoto: "Zzz... Zzz..."
Shiori: "Don't worry, he's just asleep."
Ririn: "Thank goodness... You're safe now, Makoto..."
Megakin: "I'm happy for ya, Ririn."
Ririn: "Thank you so much, everyone!"
Gakuto: "Wait, what about Motoyama?!"
Vince: "Relax, he's lyin' over here."
Megakin: "Is he dead?"
Vince: "Nah, but he might as well be."
Motoyama: "Ah... Agh..."
Vince: "Ironic, ain't it? He's stuck in the same illusion as we escaped."
Gakuto: "He's not spazzin' out, so let's take him to the cops for now."

Fade to black

Megakin: "Y'all remember that scene?"
Rika: "Yes. I couldn't forget it if I tried. That cruel, horrific imagery is burned into my brain."
Honey: "I was...a little scared..."
Shiori: "It must be the death knell Ouroboros has seen in many worlds. A future we're undoubtedly barreling towards at this rate."
Megakin: "But thanks to Newbie, we beat those grim illusions. We're gonna change the future. That's our job, right?"
Makoto: "Ngh... Huh? Sis?"
Ririn: "Makoto! Are you OK?! Did they do anything weird to you?!"
Makoto: "Uh, what...?"
Gakuto: "He's still out of it..."
Vince: "You got a lotta nerve, kid."
Ririn: "...Don't worry, Makoto. Come what may, we'll protect everyone's futures..."

Anyway, interesting stuff.
They call where Ouroboros put them in an illusion AND an "infinite space". So is it some perception trick, visual/spatial illusion, or an actually infinite set of space, made of like, copies of the room they're trapped in that are connected or something??

When the effect ends, there's ">Ririn opens the door to the previously endless space. >A new room appears with a young boy collapsed inside."

The Liberators beat Ouroboros's Regeneration by... simply damaging it more/faster than it can Regenerate. Ouroboros calls this "Splendid", then "vanishes with another word", but revives moments later, saying "No, you won. However, I am the master of infinity and rebirth. No matter my existence, none can truly vanquish me.".
It also says that "Lament not. After all, mere humans like you bested me once." which has implications.

Ouroboros: "Even in this hopeless situation, your resolve stands firm... Human despair begets surrender. Regardless, you've all demonstrated fierce resistance. Magnificent. Despite the limitations of your mortal coil, that tenacious drive to fight eternal anguish, although faint, holds boundless possibilities."
Megakin: "Boundless possibilities?"
Ouroboros: "If it's you, perhaps this world won't end like every other... Hehehe. In the interim, I shall watch what unfolds..."

＞Ouroboros vanishes into thin air.


That speech implies that Ouroboros's perception of the worlds is limited. Perhaps only up to a world's present in its timeline?
Maybe there's something special about the timeline the Dx2 player character is in?

Maybe it's just willpower (Especially with the Liberators.) cheesing stuff as is typical in SMT?

Also, is Ouroboros just vanishing maybe some kind of teleportation or such?

Also, Motoyama's fate:
Vince: "Ironic, ain't it? He's stuck in the same illusion as we escaped."

Indication of duration of effect or something?


Anyway, thoughts, all?
 
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Noticed something else.

The event specific item (Mostly used as a currency) is an item called "Aura-Emitting Warped Ring". Its description says "A ring that has been warped into the shape of a Möbius strip. Ouroboros's limitless power overflows from it."

Since these are dropped from most battles in every stage, it's safe to assume they're pretty common.
So either these were created rings, or pre-existing, that were then, seemingly passively warped by & imbued with Ouroboros's power.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, the item's image shows the ring is shaped into an infinity sign.
 
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