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Nah, he scales to Rangda who scales to Barong
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Megami Tensei General Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Lukewoesal007
- Start date
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Meanwhile, me who just spent about 5 hours analyzing & transcribing stuff related to power-scaling for Rangda & by extension Barong.
Also:
& even if you're technically more concerned with feats than the comparisons & statements I went over just now, & dismissing of the "natural disasters" there is sort of a feat, albeit, a described one with this:
＞A violent windstorm showers the group with debris.
Seiran: "Really now! How much is there?!"
Gakuto: "Those will leave more than a scratch! Run for it!"
Madoka: "!"
Ririn: "Madoka!"
Wind & rumbling sounds.
＞Ririn protects Madoka from a flying shard. Then, a huge piece of rubble falls and separates the group.
We have a visual for how big the pieces should be, roughly, since we know one "huge" piece of rubble separates them. To do that, it'd likely have to block off the corridors in the Aura Gate.
Admittedly, wind from a "violent windstorm" tossing a piece of stone -Or whatever material it is in the Aura Gate that it flung? Chunks of wall? What are they made of?- along with other pieces probably isn't that high, especially if there's already Tier 6 scaling & whatever natural disasters can be.
Sorry for any bother.
Hopefully this is appreciable.
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Funniest thing I've ever read
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Pixie is 8-C for moving a boulder.
Also, none of the Demons listed are notable in scaling. Scaling the Liberators is also not possible because they’re full of outliers. There’s no consistent scaling for them.
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A building-sized boulder, yes. & something that dwarfs buildings should have AP &/or Striking Strength via size?
Also, if we're discussing their lower tiers, what about Walpurgisnacht's windstorms that are powerful enough to hurl pieces of debris/rubble big enough a single one can block an Aura Gate corridor?
Tragic if so, although I expected as such for Slime, Blob, Black Ooze & Pisaca. Only a slight surprise about Dantalian.
Every single one of the Liberators?
Outliers like what if you'll pardon my asking, please?
& if we're that unable to scale the Liberators because of Outliers, then what about Rangda's natural disasters &/or the windstorms/rubble for scaling?
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Sure.
Nowhere.
They’re struggling with Rangda in this collab. The last collab they fought Ardha. The last collab before that they fought the Demiurge. Both of them are 1-A. They just aren’t consistent.
Can’t see it being above city block.
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Not to mention they had previously beaten Demiurge only to then struggle with the Names of YHVH before then struggling with a Camael level opponent.
From 1-A to a weaker 1-A to a Low 1-C.
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So wouldn't that apply to the building-dwarfing Illuyanka that assaults the Alter World protagonist & their Pixie & which their demons can fight?
That would be higher than the 8-C Pixie scales to, no?
You mean it's useless for scaling, despite being higher than the "regular" key low tier demons scale to?
That Rangda, in gameplay, was a boss, & in the story, was the Aura Gate's Master/creator, for all the scaling that that's worth.
It was also disguised as Ririn for a time. (& somehow did fight an unshown battle to protect Madoka under that disguise, seemingly.)
& it survives their first fight with injury then flees.
Also, "struggling"?
Ririn: "...It's a circle to call witches to this world."
Homura: "!"
Madoka: "Um, Ririn?"
Megakin: "Spill it, Ririn! How do you know that?!"
Ririn: "Because I drew it. The c-conditions a-are met. N-Now, at long last...!"
Demon (Rangda): "My dearest wish will come true!"
Gakuto: "What?! A demon?!"
Seiran: "A disguise?! Then where is Ririn?!"
Demon (Rangda): "Hoho! Who knows?"
Megakin: "Quit playin' dumb and tell us!"
Battle transition. Boss battle with Rangda occurs.
Next cutscene.
Demon (Rangda): "Ugh!"
Homura: "This foe isn't much of a threat."
Megakin: "Spit it out! Where's Ririn?!"
Demon (Rangda): "Hoho, take a guess. She's demon chow by now."
Homura: "!"
Madoka: "Um, Ririn?"
Megakin: "Spill it, Ririn! How do you know that?!"
Ririn: "Because I drew it. The c-conditions a-are met. N-Now, at long last...!"
Demon (Rangda): "My dearest wish will come true!"
Gakuto: "What?! A demon?!"
Seiran: "A disguise?! Then where is Ririn?!"
Demon (Rangda): "Hoho! Who knows?"
Megakin: "Quit playin' dumb and tell us!"
Battle transition. Boss battle with Rangda occurs.
Next cutscene.
Demon (Rangda): "Ugh!"
Homura: "This foe isn't much of a threat."
Megakin: "Spit it out! Where's Ririn?!"
Demon (Rangda): "Hoho, take a guess. She's demon chow by now."
After fighting Rangda, Homura says it "isn't much of a threat,".
They do struggle with the Walpurgisnacht summoned by Rangda's despair after Rangda's 2nd loss in battle & failure to summon Walpurgisnacht.
To the point's credit, if they fight stuff that should regularly god-stomp Rangda, I can see how it's inconsistent, & it does sound like it.
Thank you for that clarifying perspective.
But that would still be above the Building Level Lower Tier Demons scale to in their Regular Keys, right?
I do apologize if I'm being bothersome.
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Sure.
I don’t put much stock into the Aura Gate, but if you want to make it tier 8, sure.
Sure.
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Given that Illuyanka is noted to be made of water, that seems like it could be calculated.
I had been partially wondering if there was something to do with it being some kind of realm of notable scope to create, or if its connection to thought & wishes & such, &, IIRC, the Dragon Lines, I had pondered if creating an Aura Gate is a notable feat.
Also, I wouldn't be readily presuming creating an Aura Gate is Tier 8. The feat would more likely be something like:
1. Determine the width of a corridor in the Aura Gate.
2. Approximate the height an object would need to be to be unable to be passed. (Presumably, 2 meters high is sufficient for humans to be unable to climb over it.)
3. Determine a material to assume density from for that object. (What materials are in the Aura Gate??) Find mass from this.
4. Determine the KE from flinging that object into the air via the winds of a fierce windstorm, possibly add the energy from the windstorm as well.
Or do you mean the Aura Gate itself is untiered in some way?
Given your brevity & my assumed tone, & the length at which we've discussed -Especially my own verbosity- I must admit I'm nervous.
I fear you are exasperated with me.
Especially given my relative & evident lack of experience with this 'verse despite my clear enthusiasm & investigation -Such as inquiring to others about it- in it.
If you do have issue with me, I would appreciate being told as such so that I can know how to better behave so as to better get along with you, or at least lessen any behaviour of mine that could worsen issues.
No offense meant.
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The Aura Gate is the unconscious, or at least likened to it. Don’t have the scans on me at the moment, they’re somewhere in the server, so attempting to tier it’s physical composition is pretty fruitless.
Nope. I just don’t talk too much.
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Does the unconscious not connect to the Collective Unconscious?
& if it is formed from the unconscious, shouldn't that affect its physical matter?
Regarding tiering its physical composition, I do suppose there's a lack of sun, stars, sky/atmosphere, or clear universal boundaries to it, & the only "moon" it has is an atypical one.
But for its supposed rubble, debris, or walls, could not materials be assumed?
That's somewhat reassuring. Thank you very much.
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No, they can’t. It’s hardly physical as it stands.
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"They can't" meaning materials cannot be assumed, or something else?
So we couldn't suppose debris would say, have the density of stone?
Especially with it being able to obstruct passage?
Is the Aura Gate some kind of "You're only here in spirit, your bodies are still at the door" thing?
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Yes. We cannot assume the materials.
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Disappointing.
We couldn't even use it for a "Possibly rating" with the basis of the possibly being that it's uncertain what the materials are?
If so, what do we know about the Aura Gate's structure, then?
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It is the Earth’s energy. The unconscious energy coming from it. It isn’t a “physical” location.
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One is a manifestation, one is the Great Will.
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There's a key for "Manifestation Head" and another for "Great Will" in the profile, which makes clear the difference between both
The manifestation head that Aleph or Hideto defeat is only an avatar of the Great Will, which is represented by the infinite heads in SMTIVA final battle
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Yeah, but in a debate regarding whether The Great Will is indeed SMT IV A YHVH, what points or evidence do I need to present to demonstrate that SMT II YHVH was referring to his true self? The problematic part is when he says that he needs humans to come back to life.
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The fact that MegaTen Maniacs calls him the great will.
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What are your favorite Megami Tensei games, guys? Right now my top 10 looks like this
- Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei
- Shin Megami Tensei
- Digital Devil Story: Megami Tensei II
- Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
- Shin Megami Tensei if...
- Shin Megami Tensei II
- Devil Summoner
- Persona 2 (both parts)
- Digital Devil Saga (both parts)
- Last Bible: New Testament
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I really only have a top 5, after that it just gets muddled
1. DDS
2. Catherine
3. Persona 4 Golden
4. Persona 3 Reload
5. Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance
1. DDS
2. Catherine
3. Persona 4 Golden
4. Persona 3 Reload
5. Shin Megami Tensei V: Vengeance
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In no particular order, my top 5 is:
1. SMT SJ (Redux)
2. SMT Nocturne
3. Devil Survivor II Record Breaker
4. SMT V Vengeance
5. Person 5 (Royal).
Still need to finish SMT IV, Raidou (King Abaddon) and Persona 3 at some point. Raidou will probably knock one of those out of the list when I do.
1. SMT SJ (Redux)
2. SMT Nocturne
3. Devil Survivor II Record Breaker
4. SMT V Vengeance
5. Person 5 (Royal).
Still need to finish SMT IV, Raidou (King Abaddon) and Persona 3 at some point. Raidou will probably knock one of those out of the list when I do.
Tomfer
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Raidou is really good, I cannot recommed enough. I love him as a protagonist.
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Now if only his games got remasters so that you don't have to fork over an organ for one of his games
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I haven't had the opportunity to play 10 Megami Tensei games, sadly.
In part due to lack of time, lack of software....
I will say that I like some of the designs I've seem in the DemiKids franchise, since those are cute. But I haven't played it.
Tomfer
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Atlus doesn't care about us, Raidou lovers... Truly an unjust world.
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Do you have a PC, or anything?
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I'm on a PC, but it's a toaster from over a decade ago.
I got Nocturne on PC via Steam, but I have 8 GB total, & usually only 1 or 2 free; Not enough to run Nocturne.
IRL, I have several console systems from generations ago, but I don't have money to spare.
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Ah, explains why Dx2 is the only game you can play. Sorry to hear that.
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Indeed. Sorry for any bother with that.
I do my best to read about, looking at stuff on the Wiki & stuff.
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Nah, no issue.
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(Yes, I haven't done all the story content yet.)
Upon entering Floor 48, there's a screen shaking visual effect, & Seiran mistakes it for an earthquake, before noting that it's the whole Aura Gate itself shaking.
Do we have any basises to measure this? I know the Aura Gate isn't (very) physical, but....
Well, for one, now that I'm playing it again, it I can see what resembles fog, mist or clouds. Could this be inferred to be akin to an atmosphere?
Alternatively, what if we tried to measure it? It's moved through in first person, so the center of the screen is presumably eye level with a wall we're adjacent to & facing, right?
We could use this to infer the height of the walls, use that to get the heights of the cubes comprising the walls, & then with one measure of the cubes found, use that measurement for width & depth of one of those cubical stacks.
Multiply by the size of the grid, & we can approximate the volume & measurements of a typical Aura Gate floor, no?
Or at least, the explorable portions.
Even if we can't get mass from this, it could also provide range for whatever made that quake/shaking, if that's relevant.
Sorry for any bother.
Upon entering Floor 48, there's a screen shaking visual effect, & Seiran mistakes it for an earthquake, before noting that it's the whole Aura Gate itself shaking.
Do we have any basises to measure this? I know the Aura Gate isn't (very) physical, but....
Well, for one, now that I'm playing it again, it I can see what resembles fog, mist or clouds. Could this be inferred to be akin to an atmosphere?
Alternatively, what if we tried to measure it? It's moved through in first person, so the center of the screen is presumably eye level with a wall we're adjacent to & facing, right?
We could use this to infer the height of the walls, use that to get the heights of the cubes comprising the walls, & then with one measure of the cubes found, use that measurement for width & depth of one of those cubical stacks.
Multiply by the size of the grid, & we can approximate the volume & measurements of a typical Aura Gate floor, no?
Or at least, the explorable portions.
Even if we can't get mass from this, it could also provide range for whatever made that quake/shaking, if that's relevant.
Sorry for any bother.
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The Aura Gate is not a physical place.
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My apologies, sorry.
So, if you'll forgive my asking, please, is it just some kind of Passive Perception Manipulation/Gravity Manipulation/Telekinesis or such that characters interact with it as though it is physical, not passing through its walls & floors?
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1. Shin megami tensei strange journey redux
2. Shin megami tensei V vengeance
3. Shin megami tensei IV
4. Persona 3 reload
5. Shin megami tensei III nocturne
6. Persona 5 royal
7. Persona 2 innocent sin
8. Persona 4 Golden
9. Persona 1
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Playing the Dx2 Intermission Chapter. Didn't realize it had story missions, so hadn't touched it for a while. Thought it'd be all yakkity-yak-yak.
1 part of the story has them "surrounded", & the visual novel-esque cutscene shows a second Peallaidh along with the one they just fought (To its credit, it was a boss level.), & a Decarabia & an Azumi.
Like, maybe if they had actual graphics, the horde might seem more threatening, but WANTED missions have the players demons soloing literal dozens of demons. (About 40 or so.)
This causes Megakin to order them to flee back to his mansion.
Man, they really are inconsistent, lol. That or this is some serious PIS. Like, wasn't Chapter 7 all about them defeating Vanitas/The Acolytes?
1 part of the story has them "surrounded", & the visual novel-esque cutscene shows a second Peallaidh along with the one they just fought (To its credit, it was a boss level.), & a Decarabia & an Azumi.
Like, maybe if they had actual graphics, the horde might seem more threatening, but WANTED missions have the players demons soloing literal dozens of demons. (About 40 or so.)
This causes Megakin to order them to flee back to his mansion.
Man, they really are inconsistent, lol. That or this is some serious PIS. Like, wasn't Chapter 7 all about them defeating Vanitas/The Acolytes?
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