Mega Mewtwo being Solar System Level

[JJSliderman]

I'm just a little confused about this.

Mega Mewtwo's SS rating comes from him battling 50% Zygarde, who was able to battle with Ultra Necrozma.

My issue is moreso that Mewtwo's fight with Zygarde wasn't really a fight.

Mewtwo was one-shot as soon as Zygarde used Dragon Pulse, in its Mega X Form, and that was the only thing it did to combat Zygarde.







I guess I'm just not sure if scaling Mewtwo to Zygarde and UN is really accurate, given that 50% Zygarde is much weaker than Ultra Necrozma itself. If there's something I'm missing it would help me out a lot.

 

[The_real_cal_howard]

Mewtwo managed to parry quite a few of Zygarde's attacks before that with his spoon. Also Zygarde was empowered as it absorbed a good portion of the rest of the Aura Trio.

 

[Peter1129]

Actually he only managed to barely hold back a single Crunch attack from 50% Zygarde as Mega Mewtwo X which specializes in physical combat. That was the only thing he did in that entire fight. Right after that he got one shot by a direct hit from Dragon Pulse. Although this was a stronger 50% Zygarde that absorbed an unknown amount of power from Xerneas and Yveltal that Mewtwo briefly held back.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah as far as I can tell, the Crunch Attack was the only one Mewtwo blocked, and then he got one-shot by DP. Personally I don't really think Mewtwo should scale based off that.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Crunch is Dark-Type.

Mewtwo is weak to Dark.

Zygarde was already amped.

Mega Mewtwo X's defensive stats are his weakest.

And yet he was still able to stop it. If he wasn't partially comparable he would have been yeeted immediately.

/thread

 

[JJSliderman]

X's defense is the exact same as it's special defense, so why would it take more damage from a non-super effective special move than a physical super-effective move. It doesn't make sense. Sure Dragon Pulse was STAB but that just makes it effectively the same power as Crunch. And Mewtwo X isn't weak to dark.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

um

Dragon Pulse has a base power of 85

Crunch has a base power of 80

so not only is Dragon Pulse getting stab for a 50% boost, it's already stronger than Crunch

 

[Peter1129]

Yeah as far as I can tell, the Crunch Attack was the only one Mewtwo blocked, and then he got one-shot by DP.
Personally I don't really think Mewtwo should scale based off that.

Yeah that was also what I believed when I made the thread back than on the 5-B revision I made. But since I was outvoted I just decided to go with the flow.

@ZephyrosOmega We don't use stats as they are just game mechanics.

 

[JJSliderman]

Zygarde's physical attack is higher than its special attack so Crunch should still be hitting about as hard as Dragon Pulse.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Zygarde's physical attack is higher than its special attack so Crunch should still be hitting about as hard as Dragon Pulse.

it's a difference of 100 vs 81. At best, you can say mewtwo got two-shot, which even then he's still comparable enough to react to Zygarde and take one attack

 

[JJSliderman]

If Mewtwo could only barely hold off an attack that was comparable to another attack right after that Mewtwo got one-shot by while in the same form both times. Then it doesn't really make sense to scale Mewtwo to that. If we're just going to scale characters based off tanking at most one attack and then getting one-shot you can apply this to many other characters and get them massive boosts.

Sonic survived getting slapped by the Time Eater, guess Sonic is a universe level character in his base form!

Except no, it's not consistent.

I'm not sure why Mewtwo is getting this scaling. If it has to remain, it should be a possibly imo.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Ooh, strawmanning + bringing up sonic at the same time. ******* nice one.


Look, I've got a final to take, so I'll get back to this if Cal doesn't get to you first.

 

[JJSliderman]

Wow, real mature there, mate.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Wow, real mature there, mate.

Oh, I'm sorry, I'm usually far more composed. It's just that whenever I see your handle on this wiki i enter a state that involves smashed objects and a lot of repressed anger.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

ALso the final was ******* easy.

Anyway, this thread is stupid and comparable pokemon oneshotting eachother is a normal thing

 

[JJSliderman]

Bruh, you came onto this thread after you explicitly told me to stop bothering you. Idk what you want me to say.

 

[JJSliderman]

Zygarde one shot Mewtwo with a non super effective attack coming off its weaker attacking stat when Mewtwo X is supposed to have decent defenses. So, Zygarde and Mewtwo are not comparable.

 

[JJSliderman]

If you want me to agree with something, I think Mewtwo scaling to the speed aspect is more justified, seeing as he reacted to Zygarde's Crunch Attack. Granted he also got hit by the Dragon Pulse right after but I'm willing to at least scale Mewtwo speed-wise. I just don't feel comfortable saying Mewtwo physically scales to something that one-shot him.

 

[JJSliderman]

Also on an unrelated note can we fix the speed thing for Mewtwo.

The first two just link to Relativistic Pokemon and the last one links to Deoxys who links to Rayquaza who has no justification.

 

[Bowser-us]

Also on an unrelated note can we fix the speed thing for Mewtwo.
The first two just link to Relativistic Pokemon and the last one links to Deoxys who links to Rayquaza who has no justification.

Also, whats Deoxys tier? He fought Mewtwo, which is 5-B, but also he fought M-Ray, which is 5-B-4-ðÆ

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

This was already brought up before and was discussed.

Mega Mewtwo, while clearly weaker than 50% Zygarde, was still strong enough to fend off Zygarde's attacks. Lysandre even points this out when they fight. Ignoring the fact that Zygarde was also amped by energy he absorbed from Yveltal/Xerneas, Mega Mewtwo would still have to be in the same realm of power as Zygarde to even do anything like that at all.

 

[JJSliderman]

Personally I disagree, seeing as it was one attack Mewtwo blocked, barely, taking no damage from it physically, and then getting one-shot, but I see this isn't gonna lead to anything. So, idk, this can be closed I guess.

 

[Dragopentling]

Mega Mewtwo didn't need to be necessarily equal or on par, it just needs to have a comparable amount of strength to Zygarde.

 

[Arceus0x]

look mate. if mewtwo can hold off a 4-B attack well by a buffed up Zygarde that means he is around or perhaps a little lower than zygarde. If he was 5-B he would've gotten utterly stomped, which did not happen. This argument that you made was valid when we wandered whether to scale mewtwo to 700 zettatons (or sth i dont remember how much tons) or scale him to an existing 400 zettaton feat. This made sense. however now there is a colossal, x1000 times or around that amount of power difference if mewtwo was 5-B. Yet he was able to hold off a 4-B attack from a buff zygarde. Thus he scales.

 

[JJSliderman]

Well...yeah, he did get utterly stomped.

After he held off that one attack with massive effort, he got one-shot. That seems like a stomp. There are many instances in fiction where a character survives one or two attacks and then loses immediately after.

Idk to me it feels like a huge outlier given Mega Mewtwo's other showings, but I realized awhile ago that it's not gonna lead to anything substantial if I continue. So, yeah, I'll accept it ig, even if I disagree.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Well...yeah, he did get utterly stomped.
After he held off that one attack with massive effort, he got one-shot.

That's not what a stomp is, because at the end of the day, Mewtwo could still do something. If it wasn't 4-B, Zygarde would've completely ragdolled it without Mewtwo giving any meaningful resistance to it whatsoever.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Well...yeah, he did get utterly stomped.
After he held off that one attack with massive effort, he got one-shot. That seems like a stomp. There are many instances in fiction where a character survives one or two attacks and then loses immediately after.

Idk to me it feels like a huge outlier given Mega Mewtwo's other showings, but I realized awhile ago that it's not gonna lead to anything substantial if I continue. So, yeah, I'll accept it ig, even if I disagree.

Necrozma is 3 megafoe.

I want you to go to the AP page and tell me what the gap between baseline and that is.

 

[JJSliderman]

Look, I'm just not comfortable saying that Mewtwo is in the same league as Zygarde when it pretty much was a stomp fight, the spoon took most of the hit for Mewtwo, it got one shot by a Dragon Pulse with little issue, and this is the only feat putting Mewtwo on this level of power at all. Maybe if there was some other instance of Mewtwo fighting more evenly with this level of character then I could see it.

But I already said I would be fine with keeping it even though I disagree.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That's a 136x difference. Without the decimal numbers at least.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

>the spoon took most of the hit

>the spoon made of psychic energy

>the spoon stopping a dark type attack with psychic energy

Nice

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Thank you, cinder.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

Yeah. Exactly.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yeah, and Rayquaza could fight the Creation Trio better than Mewtwo fought Zygarde, and that's a literal more than infinity difference.

Why not just scale Mewtwo to that, then.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

i actually do lol

for different reasons, but you really do not wanna do this with me kiddo

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

That is a super blatant outlier.

 

[JJSliderman]

Yes, that's an outlier, and this isn't.

It's the same kind of circumstance.

 

[ZephyrosOmega]

Yes, that's an outlier, and this isn't.
It's the same kind of circumstance.

You're right, this isn't an outlier. Thanks for the concession.

 

[JJSliderman]

I'm so glad you aren't able to recognize sarcasm.

 

[Super_Ascended_Sean_Pazdera]

Wasn't Zygarde being helped by Solgaleo though?

 

[Foxthefox1000]

Yeah, tbh this seems pretty incredulous. Most debating sites already have a hard time agreeing with the sort of composite profiles we have here, and some would claim UN would have to have a 4-B feat in the manga itself for any scaling to happen.

I know this site composites but don't expect people like DB and all to have Zygarde stomping Cell because of this. Mewtwo barely put up a fight yet other character barely putting up a fight are used as reasons to not have them scale.

But whatever.