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I can pretty much say that all of this makes Mega Mewtwo AT LEAST on Dusk Mane Necrozma level as already said before.
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The Unova Legends scaling has been bugging me for a hot minute (possible revision: 3-A -> 5-B, at LEAST 6-A)
- Thread starter Joycap
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...because it's the main weapon it uses in physical fights...
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- #203
Prove it. Because call me Alex Jones, but I don't think it's any kind of coincidence that you've decided to waddle past any further requests for pics / screens the second he puts the spoon down.
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It's literally how it fights in the manga lmao
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- #205
Again, you're deflecting my point. If you have the full Manga downloaded, it'd be in all our best interest for you to show us the volume the fight came from.
Spoon was long since dropped in the last of the scans posted.
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Well, just the Deoxys vs Mewtwo fight is pretty much enough to prove so
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I remembered that it made just an appearance there, have been ages since I've read the first issues.
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Simply how it fight as said for the quintillionth time lmao.
We don't give to dudes who defend themselves using weapons they create a tier only with that weapon.
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- #212
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- #213
You're putting words in my mouth at this point, but OK.
As I said, I'm open to the idea that he's amping the spoon, but whether that was with the raw power or the spoon, he still got bodied. So no, I'm not suggesting a weapon node. I never did.
Lou_change
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The spoon is something that mewtwo creates with their psychic power to help in head to head combat because special and physical stat are split in verse and mewtwo's attacks are mostly long range also crunch is a dark type move.
To go further this is a thing in fiction a person with a sword will use the sword to block this logic applies to a lot of weapons.
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Cringe.
I'm talking about the way to fight.
Open to an headcanon which you made up from your own and that was NEVER stated in the verse.
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- #216
Show. Me. The screens.
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You're the one who made the claim that Mewtwo is boosting the spoon, so the burden is on you since you made such claim. I don't need to prove otherwise since it's just not a thing.
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- #218
Where did you find the Manga download?
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Have you ... not read the manga? Are you trying to argue against something you don't even know about?
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You can find from Gen 1 to 5 from just Googling "Pokémon adventures read online", gen 6 onwards is harder
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Yeah basically this. What is this discussion anymore.
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I did try to find how regular Necrozma fared against 50% Zygarde for reference but couldn't. So if Mega Mewtwo did actually do better than base Necrozma then, fair enough.
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Is on my new AP description for 50% Zygarde.
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Do you have scans by any chance.
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- #225
Yeah, I conceded that I haven't read the manga at least a few times in this thread. When did you join this, again?
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It's liked there. And yes, another imgur album.
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Anyway, if no one has concerns anymore, tomorrow I'll apply the changes to the scaling.
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Looking through it, some of the scaling justifications are sort of unclear (namely Ultra Beasts scaling above Dawn Wings, or how Mewtwo scales to Dawn Wings, etc.)
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- #229
M2X/Y should at least be remotely downscaled from Zy50%. That's the only thing I'm going to say (even with 3-C's 900x range taken into account). Amp for megas (multiplier) also needs to be defined with a concrete number.
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Ultra Beasts are all on Nihilego's level, who could overpower Dusk Mane.
Mewtwo, well, it's at least on Dusk Mane levels due if its feat being way better than anything base Necro can do.
1st part literally means nothing so I'll be ignoring it as I don't recall saying something about x900. About the second, Mega boost changes between Legendaries and Non-Legendaries, Mega Aggron for example isn't getting an extraggerated multipler from 7-A. Origin Red's Charizard is another example since it's, well, a special one. Ergo it changes in context and in base on who.
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All that really happens with Merged Lusamine/Nihilego is that she throws a beast ball at Dawn Wings, I wouldn't call that overpowering it. Especially when Dawn Wings beats all of Merged Lusamine's Pokemon later.
Base Necrozma also doesn't really have any showings against 50% Zygarde to draw a good comparison to Mewtwo, who did pretty not-great against Zygarde to begin with. And then Ultra Necrozma blew Complete Zygarde to bits with one Photon Geyser, so 50% Zygarde's scaling is also kinda confusing to find out what extent it is.
I'm also not sure if the Ultra Beasts being a threat necessarily makes them equal with 50% Zygarde. Being a threat can just mean that while you are weaker, you still have the potential to cause great damage.
Base Necrozma also doesn't really have any showings against 50% Zygarde to draw a good comparison to Mewtwo, who did pretty not-great against Zygarde to begin with. And then Ultra Necrozma blew Complete Zygarde to bits with one Photon Geyser, so 50% Zygarde's scaling is also kinda confusing to find out what extent it is.
I'm also not sure if the Ultra Beasts being a threat necessarily makes them equal with 50% Zygarde. Being a threat can just mean that while you are weaker, you still have the potential to cause great damage.
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Reading that better, they fight pretty much on par, so UBs = Dawn Wings then.
I mean
50% Zygarde wasn't completely fodderizzed against Ultra Necrozma and manages to send it flying.
Mega Mewtwo wasn't completely one shotted against 50% Zygarde.
That is at very least a better thing than Base Necrozma could accomplish, given that not even the 2nd power up of Necrozma (who massively upscales from Base and Dusk Mane) could completely fodderizze despite being stronger.
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- #233
You didn't, but someone did:
I also never said it was an amp before you ask @StrymULTRA - I'm simply saying that the multiplier from base 3-C to base 3-B would have to be lower for M2X/Y than it would for Zygarde 50%
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About this, well, someone can even argue the opposite, so for a safe end we assume simply that they're around the same power level.
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- #235
VS wiki categorisations treat this as encapsulation. Does that count as said scaling?
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I mean, it's literally just merging, so it is on a level of a random Nihilego
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Zygarde's performance seems inconsistent against Necrozma, given that Ultra could one-shot Complete with a single attack but then 50% can keep up despite being far weaker.
I guess as an example of the threat thing, Darth Maul was a threat to Sidious due to Maul's empire potentially ruining Sidious' plans for the galaxy. But Maul was still demonstrably far weaker than Sidious. I know this is case-by-case but the threat thing I'm still not sure fully allows for scaling the UBs to Zygarde. I don't really have further proof though, so I'll accept the scaling.
As it turns out Mewtwo did take one blow from Zygarde before blocking the Crunch, so I guess it did take two direct hits to Mewtwo before Mewtwo was knocked out. With that said Mewtwo still was kinda stomped and unable to do much to Zygarde.
That, and if UBs are indeed equal to Dawn Wings, and 50% Zygarde is equal to UBs, and 50% Zygarde stomps Mega Mewtwo, then I don't see why Mega Mewtwo would be=Dawn Wings. Maybe it would be above Base Necrozma, but there's no correlation between the two, and base Necrozma's feat doesn't really have a timeframe I believe.
I guess as an example of the threat thing, Darth Maul was a threat to Sidious due to Maul's empire potentially ruining Sidious' plans for the galaxy. But Maul was still demonstrably far weaker than Sidious. I know this is case-by-case but the threat thing I'm still not sure fully allows for scaling the UBs to Zygarde. I don't really have further proof though, so I'll accept the scaling.
As it turns out Mewtwo did take one blow from Zygarde before blocking the Crunch, so I guess it did take two direct hits to Mewtwo before Mewtwo was knocked out. With that said Mewtwo still was kinda stomped and unable to do much to Zygarde.
That, and if UBs are indeed equal to Dawn Wings, and 50% Zygarde is equal to UBs, and 50% Zygarde stomps Mega Mewtwo, then I don't see why Mega Mewtwo would be=Dawn Wings. Maybe it would be above Base Necrozma, but there's no correlation between the two, and base Necrozma's feat doesn't really have a timeframe I believe.
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Complete one defeated Ultra tho
I completely forgot about this detail, but yeah, Mega Mewtwo would be between Dawn Wings Necrozma and Base Necrozma now.
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Complete only won after Necrozma was unable to move, it had its stamina whittled away over the course of the fight, and after teaming up with the other Light Trio members, so I'm not sure how much of the scaling rests with Complete.
I'm also not sure how Mega Mewtwo would be above Base Necrozma, although there probably is something to confirm it.
Rest of the scaling I'm fine with though just in terms of the raw scaling chain portions, other than maybe emphasizing the gap between Mega Mewtwo and 50% Zygarde.
Does the absorbing all light thing have a timeframe.
I'm also not sure how Mega Mewtwo would be above Base Necrozma, although there probably is something to confirm it.
Rest of the scaling I'm fine with though just in terms of the raw scaling chain portions, other than maybe emphasizing the gap between Mega Mewtwo and 50% Zygarde.
Does the absorbing all light thing have a timeframe.
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I remember that part, but would still be above tho, their help was pretty minor, given that Ultra could still fight pretty decently at the end.
Tbh, I definitely can't see Base Necro being able to even fight against 50% Zygarde given who it fought, unlike Mewtwo who still managed to so such.
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