Medaka Kurokami vs Pegasus Seiya Overture

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Both have extreme hax. Whose hax will overpower the other? I've wanted to do this for too long.

-Speed Equalized

-Both Low 2-C

-Win via KO only but both are willing to use their most powerful skills.

Fight!!!!

Medaka :3

Seiya :3

 

[Reppuzan]

I'm not sure if Seiya has enough power to put down Medaka, not to mention the fact that he has to get through Encounter (which reflects all harm on a physical, spiritual, and mental level) and All Fiction.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Good lord....

 

[DontTalk]

I would think Seiya.

Remember Medakas copyied skills have only 120% of the original power, most of them are not even close to Universe level+.

Offensively Medaka has three abilities that are Universe level+. The first is the "create a universe" skill that, as far as we know, is not combat orientated. The second one is Bookmaker that might be that strong given that it sealed Ajimu Najimi, but is an ability through which you can not win a battle. The third one is All Fiction, which is resisted due to acausality.

Encounter working on 2-C levels is a NLF, as that is far above what the abilty demonstrated. All Fiction restoring from timeline destruction is also doubtable, since it is a causality involving skill and destroying the timeline means to destroy the whole causality chain. Not to mention that countering with Seiya's own causality manipulation is possible here.

Medakas best shot is probably copying Seiyas powers through The End and use them against him. But I don't think she will get to that. Consider that The End while being in the process of copying abilities makes it so that Medaka can't take any actions (and Medaka usually tanks the first hit).

With the premise that both are willing to use their strongest techniques this ends in Seiya nuking the timeline first move and through that ending the battle.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

Acausality counters high-level reality warping?

 

[DontTalk]

Acausality counters high-level reality warping?

High level as in reality warping that includes manipulation of space-time, souls, information, matter, energy, minds, causality and concepts? No.

All Fiction, a skill that is based on nothing but casuality manipulation? Yes.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

I think Allfiction is reality warping but I don't remember.

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

Here is the description

• All Fictio (Minus that allows her to deny aspects of reality; to make anything "nothing". Because of this, she can undo anything that has been damaged. However, has been stated once removes something with her Minus, she cannot return it as it has become "fiction". His ability can even reverse her own death as well as the death of others.)

 

[PaChi2]

Seiya's causality manipulation what level has?

 

[BreloomFanboy]

High level as in reality warping that includes manipulation of space-time, souls, information, matter, energy, minds, causality and concepts? No.

All Fiction, a skill that is based on nothing but casuality manipulation? Yes.

All Fiction seems more like Destruction and Void Manipulation than Causality Manipulation.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

Here is the description

• All Fictio (Minus that allows her to deny aspects of reality; to make anything "nothing". Because of this, she can undo anything that has been damaged. However, has been stated once removes something with her Minus, she cannot return it as it has become "fiction". His ability can even reverse her own death as well as the death of others.)

+1

 

[DontTalk]

This is the ability sheet for all fiction also found on Misogi's page. As it says the ability works by removing cause and effect of something, which is an application of causality manipulation.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

Isn't causality manipulation a "branch" of reality warping. I never stated that All Fiction didn't have some causality applications, but it isn't "based off causality manipulation" like you said earlier.

 

[DontTalk]

Every ability is potentially a branch of reality warping.

But all fiction is more specfically causality manipulation, since it has absolutely no other effects except "making it so that cause and effect didn't happen" and through using that creatively archieving the demonstrated effects.

So resistance against causality manipulation is also resistance against All Fiction.

 

[PaChi2]

All fiction can affect concepts, tho. So its causalty manipulation/Reality warping of greater caliber for which you need also strong resistance, what acausal feats does Seiya have?

 

[BreloomFanboy]

All Fiction is definitely high-level reality warping, not just causality manipulation. All Fiction has shown Destruction and void manipulation feats.

 

[Sage_God_Slayer]

Seiya would win, Medaka is no way close to Seiya in in any department really, especially this Seiya. Also Encounter has not shown to to reflect spiritual attacks and he can just KO her and the longer the fight goes the stronger Seiya gets. All fiction can not erase Seiya too because not even Hades' Sword can put him down and fodder in SS like the 2nd Faceless can erase somene's existence. Also she has not shown to come back from getting destroyed at the sub atomic level and lesser beings in SS have comeback from being made into quantum particles. Also Seiya's power went beyond 3D reality and nothing we've seen from Medaka can even reach that.

 

[PaChi2]

^All fiction can activate even if the user dies so it can undo any damage inflicted to him/her, its not Regenerationn. It could also be said that the longer the fight goes, the more abilities "The End" will copy. Nothing to say about the 3D thingy. Seiya needs stronger reality warping than All Fiction in order to beat Medaka, if he doesnt have it, its pointless.

 

[DontTalk]

All fiction can affect concepts, tho. So its causalty manipulation/Reality warping of greater caliber for which you need also strong resistance, what acausal feats does Seiya have?

When has it affected concepts? I don't remember.

 

[DontTalk]

All Fiction is definitely high-level reality warping, not just causality manipulation. All Fiction has shown Destruction and void manipulation feats.

It has shown destruction (which really almost any ability does) and the Conversion to nothingness aspect of void manipulation done through causality manipulation.

Saying because of that it is more than that is like saying manipulating plants by moving the water in them, means that the character has more abilities than water manipulation.

Also you can hardly argue against the official description of how the ability works.

 

[PaChi2]

Well, in the anime (which im not sure if its canon), showing Kumagawa's backstory, he completely erased the concept of "colour", literally, everything went white and black. If it matters, it can reject the flow of time and make Time 0, making his attacks instantaneous (dunno how this applies to anything, tho).

Edit: all fiction can also erase senses, could it work on seiya?

 

[DontTalk]

@PaChi2: Well, time doesn't matter (that is technically not more than erasing every cause and effect between time a and time b). With the colour thing you maybe have a point, given that I am not sure if one could erase colour (using Misogis ability) in another way than that.

 

[ZeoParadox]

Medaka takes it


Too much hax

 

[PaChi2]

@DontTalk I agree that All Fiction is all about Causality, the thing is, the applications it has in the hands of Kumagawa (and by extension, medaka) are very close to NLF or NLF itself, since almost everything revolves around causality. It can even be argued that Misogi could erase the concept of "Cosmos" since is the cause of Seiya's powers (effect). If "Cosmos" is a higher dimensional energy, doesnt really matter, since Seiya is a 3D being and what woulf be affected is the interaction between him and the 3D version of Cosmos, not the higher one. As I said, it is very NLF.

 

[Jucaslucas]

When he erased color he just didn't erase them, he erased the concepts related to them too. Like, when he erased blue, he said that people wouldn't be able to feel blue anymore. And since he erased red, bloodshed also doesn't exist, so people can't bleed to death. Does that add something?

 

[PaChi2]

That's kumagawa being a **** xD Like erasing colours is not enough, he also erases all the possible effects derived from the concept, not the most basic ones.

 

[DontTalk]

Well, either way I stay at saying Seiya wins. With "both are willing to use their most powerful skills" and Medakas The End making her to tank the first attack, this ends in Seiya killing her by nuking the timeline first move.

In a prolonged battle Medaka has the advantage even if just because of The End, but it just doesn't get that far.

 

[PaChi2]

Cant medaka use All fiction + bookmaker in order seal Seiya? Like in: Time 0 + bookmaker for instantaneus sealing.

 

[DontTalk]

For that she would have to activate skills first and that doesn't work, because she can only act once The End has copied all abilities she sees.

That aside Bookmaker is a bad idea, as it always equalizes the opponent to yourself meaning that as long as it is in effect it is an eternal draw.

 

[Tivanenk]

Seiya definitely. Pretty much all of Medaka's arsenal is something he's dealt with before or can simply negate. Encounter? Not a problem. He's shown to bypass attack reflection when facing Poseidon. All Fiction? Not a problem since Seiya is acausal.

And the rest is pretty much irrelevent for the most part.

 

[Tivanenk]

I also find it funny how people think Medaka benefits the most from a long fight. The End...? So... Medaka copies a flurry of punches and a suplex move... not that useful really. Seiya's Adaptibility is much more useful for a drawn out fight, he wins in that regard as well. Not that this fight will even be drawn out.

 

[Jucaslucas]

Could Scar Dead damage him?

 

[Tivanenk]

It could, but what good would it do considering that he is a sandbag. Some pain won't be enough to knock him out, especially this version of Seiya.

 

[DontTalk]

Could Scar Dead damage him?

Scar dead isn't explicitely explained to bypass durabilty, it just is a skill that targets old wounds. So basically as far as we know it fails because the skill isn't powerful enough to work against such high durability.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

@Dont: Sorry for the late reply XD

Anyways, Destruction is the ability to reduce\erase anything to nothing(The opposite of Creation). While causality manipulation is the ability to manipulate Cause and Effect(Acausality gives a character immunity to the aforementioned ability). All Fiction has shown Destruction and Void Manipulation, so unless your telling me Acausality resists those, Seiya has no counter.

 

[DontTalk]

You have to know what he has been given those abilities for. Not every ability a character has he has in full extent and the mechanism behind this abilties is not always the same.

As far as I see Kumagawa has not even listed destruction.

From Void Manipulation he only has the part "conversion to nothingness", which he archieves though causality manipulation. He turns things to nothing, by deleting the cause of their existence and the effect of them existing. That is non the less an application of his ability which is a direct subpower of causality manipulation and as such Acausality gives resistance to it.

Seriously, what should i give you more than the explanation of the author telling you that all effects of All Fiction are created through causality manipulation?

 

[BreloomFanboy]

Um... Yes All Fiction has some causality manipulation applications but it isn't strictly that. Going by your logic, all forms of reality manipulation needs causality.

 

[Tivanenk]

It can make everything nothing through its causality manipulation, as stated by the author himself.

 

[BreloomFanboy]

Excluding that databook scan or whatever it is. Everything I provided in this thread implies All Fiction being being high-level reality warping with Destruction, Causality, and Void manipulation applications.

In regards to the match, Madaka wins with high difficulty imo

 

[PaChi2]

@Tivanek Medaka can adapt/learn the same way Seiya can, but she can also copy others abilities via The End. Going by her profile, that is, bookmaker makes the enemy nearly powerless (I believe this should be changed).

Also, can someone link the feats for Acausality/causality manipulation in Saint Seiya, because that term is kind of overused.