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Yeah, these walls of text are meant to be jokes and show a ton of abilities that sound absurd and which are never demonstrated.Antvasima said:
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Medaka content revision.
- Thread starter Firephoenixearl
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The joke is that Medaka is ridiculously overpowered and has a lot of really stupid abilties. Not "lol none of these abilities we're claiming Medaka to have are actually real at all".
There's no reason to arbitrarily assume this one power is fake, yet all the other powers in that section, or all the other skills characters are stated to have in general aren't.
There's no reason to arbitrarily assume this one power is fake, yet all the other powers in that section, or all the other skills characters are stated to have in general aren't.
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@Ryu
This is the same effect, 99.9% of all those abilities in that single panel wall of text are never demonstrated. She never uses any of those powers.
I wouldn't accept any power of that list that isn't demonstrated. Period.
This is the same effect, 99.9% of all those abilities in that single panel wall of text are never demonstrated. She never uses any of those powers.
I wouldn't accept any power of that list that isn't demonstrated. Period.
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She does use the powers. We knowing she used them but not seeing her use them, and her not using them are 2 different things.
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If the narration explicitly gives an explanation of what a power of a character's is supposed to do, I don't see much reason to go against it. Or to suggest that the point of giving these lists of powers and descriptions of what they do was to tell us that none of these powers are actually real, they don't do anything they're being said to, an entire scene with the sole purpose of showcasing Medaka's power is actually completely invalid, a series that runs around the absurd nature of how strong Medaka is just decided to subvert that by lying about her powers for the first time.
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@Ryu
The narration is a joke. The joke is "She is ovepowered so here's a list of absurd sounding powers".
In practice, Medaka Box has no feats beyond Tier 8 - 7 other than a single High 6-A feat for a character that makes the Earth spin, which is also a joke about how self-absorbed he is.
She never created a universe. She never used the "Create a universe" skill. It's not about it being a lie or not, it's that you literally cannot quantify or seriously use it in a versus debate which demands feats, reliable statement, and concrete evidence. A single line amidst hundreds on a crowded wall of text that is meant as a joke is not reliable.
Not a single of those abilities are ever used, period. You cannot apply them to a profile. If Medaka could create a universe so easily that it would be a throw-away skill amidst hundreds, a guy that can cut an airplane carrier in half wouldn't be considered really strong in the verse.
The narration is a joke. The joke is "She is ovepowered so here's a list of absurd sounding powers".
In practice, Medaka Box has no feats beyond Tier 8 - 7 other than a single High 6-A feat for a character that makes the Earth spin, which is also a joke about how self-absorbed he is.
She never created a universe. She never used the "Create a universe" skill. It's not about it being a lie or not, it's that you literally cannot quantify or seriously use it in a versus debate which demands feats, reliable statement, and concrete evidence. A single line amidst hundreds on a crowded wall of text that is meant as a joke is not reliable.
Not a single of those abilities are ever used, period. You cannot apply them to a profile. If Medaka could create a universe so easily that it would be a throw-away skill amidst hundreds, a guy that can cut an airplane carrier in half wouldn't be considered really strong in the verse.
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Exactly. The joke is that she's overpowered and has a bunch of stupid powers. You're arguing she doesn't have these powers by explaining that the joke is how she does have these powers.
Yes it is. You're claiming that this line and all the other powers shown are lies.
It's the narrator explicitly listing off what powers she has and what they do. Just because it's "one line in many" doesn't change that this is an explicit statement made about her power and what she can do with it.
Pioneer Flag doesn't at all scale to Medaka's actual strength.
Yes it is. You're claiming that this line and all the other powers shown are lies.
It's the narrator explicitly listing off what powers she has and what they do. Just because it's "one line in many" doesn't change that this is an explicit statement made about her power and what she can do with it.
Pioneer Flag doesn't at all scale to Medaka's actual strength.
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Boi she did use them. Those walls of text are abilities she used in that scene. The naration is of skills she used. Even if the powers "sound absurd" doesn't mean she didn't use them.
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Yes, I absolutely believe she doesn't have these powers because they are never demonstrated. Nor explained in detail. Nor ever used. We cannot apply them to the profile because we have no frame of reference for any of them aside from names which in itself are part of the joke.
I'm not claiming they're lies, I'm claiming that they are meaningless, and not intended to be taken literally. Again, you do not understand how Medaka Box works. Virtually every character and power is a meta-joke. Medaka having these ability lists is a joke on OP Shounen Protagonists, but in practical terms she has never so much as destroyed even a Small Town.
I'm not claiming they're lies, I'm claiming that they are meaningless, and not intended to be taken literally. Again, you do not understand how Medaka Box works. Virtually every character and power is a meta-joke. Medaka having these ability lists is a joke on OP Shounen Protagonists, but in practical terms she has never so much as destroyed even a Small Town.
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No she's not using any of them. She's kicking someone and the abilities are listed. None of it is shown, and we cannot apply them.Walking Strawman said:
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BTW
...having the abilities to transcend higher-dimensional space...
┬®From Ajimu's page Why is it written here?
Husky Voice Dimension (µ¼íÕàâÕûëµ×£, Hasuk─½ Boisu Dimenshon): Surpass dimensions skill.
We do not even know what the word "dimensions" means in this context. There is not a single word about higher dimensions. This is too much even for speculation.
...having the abilities to transcend higher-dimensional space...
┬®From Ajimu's page Why is it written here?
Husky Voice Dimension (µ¼íÕàâÕûëµ×£, Hasuk─½ Boisu Dimenshon): Surpass dimensions skill.
We do not even know what the word "dimensions" means in this context. There is not a single word about higher dimensions. This is too much even for speculation.
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Its the same situation with Ajimu. I have no idea how you can think that she didn't use the powers, when Ajimu literally says she used the powers. I wouldn't normally ask, but have you read the scenes?
After the wall of text Ajimu literally is like "Woah Guys, look at those 600 powers I just used."
Medaka using her trample skills is the same way. The abilities that are listed are abilities she used.
After the wall of text Ajimu literally is like "Woah Guys, look at those 600 powers I just used."
Medaka using her trample skills is the same way. The abilities that are listed are abilities she used.
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Again, the joke is that Medaka Box is ridiculously OP and has silly powers. The joke is that she does possess these abilities. Not that she doesn't and that the narrator is actually lying, which is what is needed to be believed for this position.
The author intent, punchline of the joke and meaning of this scene doesn't coincide with this premise. Because all of these things are based on the idea that she has these things.
If we're deeming it inconsistent with the feats of the series or what not, fine. But I don't like the sentiment that the joke was actually trying to say that it's fake because "it's a metafictional parody manga". I'm fine with no rating, I just at least want better reasonings for the pages.
The author intent, punchline of the joke and meaning of this scene doesn't coincide with this premise. Because all of these things are based on the idea that she has these things.
If we're deeming it inconsistent with the feats of the series or what not, fine. But I don't like the sentiment that the joke was actually trying to say that it's fake because "it's a metafictional parody manga". I'm fine with no rating, I just at least want better reasonings for the pages.
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That joke doesn't matter at all. The feat is never done, never demonstrated, and it is just dropped there as a joke. The author never intended to say that Medaka can literally destroy universes with that throwaway panel.
If not, Ajimu busting a star wouldn't be seen as godlike and absurd by everyone in the Verse, which BTW is the highest concrete destructive feat in the series.
If not, Ajimu busting a star wouldn't be seen as godlike and absurd by everyone in the Verse, which BTW is the highest concrete destructive feat in the series.
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There are tons of characters on Vsbattle are allowed get into higher tier just because of scaling from another character, even though the character never shown it on screen. Why, isn't it allowed for other character suggest as Medaka to get into higher tier when it is an ability that wasn't shown on screen either even though all of her abilities have yet been discredited by their descriptions?
Like I said before on the last CRT if Medaka has to show every single 600+ ability one by one she ever copied than it is no longer a Shonen Manga, but a guidebook.
Like I said before on the last CRT if Medaka has to show every single 600+ ability one by one she ever copied than it is no longer a Shonen Manga, but a guidebook.
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If you are going to write your interpretation of the joke as a means to dismiss statements, then yes it does matter. Either way, i don't think it should be dismissed on those grounds. The feat is done, just not on screen. If you say that she made a universe as a joke, cool, but that doesn't mean she didn't make it.Matthew Schroeder said:
Kumagawa is the only one there and the only one who treats it as such. Mind you, Kumagawa isn't a destructive fighter anyway
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Because there are 0 feats for any of these supposed cosmic-level abilities that she and Ajimu are said to have in jokes, and never demonstrate. Medaka herself is consistently Tier 8 without inappliacable plot meta-hax, and Ajimu is 100% featless other than some vague hax and the star-busting.
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Except one of your main reasons was the fact that it's just a joke. However the joke is that she is absurd enough to do that. I'm fine with marking it inconsistent with the rest of the series feats. But I at least don't want us to act as if the author was lying with these powers and that this was the point of this scene.
That power of Medaka's is given to her at the end of the series when she's at her strongest, after Ajimu's star busting feat.
That power of Medaka's is given to her at the end of the series when she's at her strongest, after Ajimu's star busting feat.
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The fact that there are comedy scenes doesn't discredit all feats in a battle shonen, regardless of its metanarrative nature. There are many serious moments throughout the entire manga. Ajimu busting a star is still a good feat because she's one of the verses god tiers lol. There's 2 other people who could reliably replicate that feat. Maybe 3 if you wank Iihiko but eh.
There is nothing to suggest the abilities Medaka used are nonexistent or fake, and as Common sense said (lol) if she has to use all 600 of them it's a bit extensive as characters have abilities added for far less.
There is nothing to suggest the abilities Medaka used are nonexistent or fake, and as Common sense said (lol) if she has to use all 600 of them it's a bit extensive as characters have abilities added for far less.
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@Ryukama
The joke is that she is absurd to "do that", and then she never does any of that. Can you not see what's the problem? None of those so-called powers are applicable because none is demonstrated or referenced again.
And that doesn't matter either. Even at her strongest Medaka is generally featless and doesn't scale to 4-C stuff at all.
No other feat in the verse, other than the rotational feat which is also a joke on a character's self-absorbed nature, surpasses Tier 8.
The joke is that she is absurd to "do that", and then she never does any of that. Can you not see what's the problem? None of those so-called powers are applicable because none is demonstrated or referenced again.
And that doesn't matter either. Even at her strongest Medaka is generally featless and doesn't scale to 4-C stuff at all.
No other feat in the verse, other than the rotational feat which is also a joke on a character's self-absorbed nature, surpasses Tier 8.
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And yes, for the intents and purposes of serious, honest VsDebating, Medaka and Ajimu's abilities are nonexistent. They have no showings of either of them, they have no detail, they have no existence in the story of the manga beyond single name-drops on joke panels.
VsDebating is built on feats, of which there are none of any of these abilities. They cannot be applied to anything.
VsDebating is built on feats, of which there are none of any of these abilities. They cannot be applied to anything.
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Oh, so Medaka just doesn't have any abilities? Hmm, kind of a strange thing to state but okay.
Also, lol Kumagawa has universal scale feats for All fiction and has claimed he could "erase the world" (backed up by that weird Ajimu Guide book entry thing but eh).
Also, lol Kumagawa has universal scale feats for All fiction and has claimed he could "erase the world" (backed up by that weird Ajimu Guide book entry thing but eh).
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No, she has any and all abilities she actually shown using.CynicalWeeaboo said:
If Naruto never used the Shadow Clone Jutsu, but it was instead merely listed in name-only among numerous other abilities he never used and that we never get any detail on, would you put it on his profile?
Kumagawa has long since been debunked, and repeatedly so. If you wish to exaggerate All Fiction to universal, you can do so where you normally do.
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She does do it tho. You keep missing that. We just don't see her do it. also, define demonstrate, because under certian definitions naration can be considered demonstration. and The Universe creation skill actually is brought up twice. once when Ajimu uses it and once when Medaka does.
Medaka destroyed the moon. she said she could tank the moon falling. Doctor Tsurubami created an ability that could ram the moon into the earth.
Medaka destroyed the moon. she said she could tank the moon falling. Doctor Tsurubami created an ability that could ram the moon into the earth.
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Personally, as an outsider looking in on this, I'm going to say this:
If abilities are never demonstrated or properly explained, then there is little reference to frame of how the character(s) truly use them. Without that, trying to wrap one's head around that character and their capabilities, is a little maddening.
It's like saying someone has Time Manipulation but you don't know what they can do with it. It's only mentioned and never seen in play. Can they Time Stop? Dunno. Can they Accelerate Time? Dunno. Time Travel? Dunno.
All you know is that they have it.
If Medaka has an entire wall that lists her abilities and the vast majority are never seen or used: the problem isn't that it's a joke. The problem is that it's an enigma.
If abilities are never demonstrated or properly explained, then there is little reference to frame of how the character(s) truly use them. Without that, trying to wrap one's head around that character and their capabilities, is a little maddening.
It's like saying someone has Time Manipulation but you don't know what they can do with it. It's only mentioned and never seen in play. Can they Time Stop? Dunno. Can they Accelerate Time? Dunno. Time Travel? Dunno.
All you know is that they have it.
If Medaka has an entire wall that lists her abilities and the vast majority are never seen or used: the problem isn't that it's a joke. The problem is that it's an enigma.
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Okay, good, show me she actually creating a universe.Walking Strawman said:
Ah, okay, so she just performed over 600 abilities simultaneously between two-panels, including abilities such as "Create a universe", and then in the next panel we don't see the effect of any of these abilities. Thanks for clarifying.Walking Strawman said:
In this case it can't. It isn't even narration, it is just a joke list which you deliberatedly interpret as literal to have a Tier 8 character as Tier 2 because of an attack name.Walking Strawman said:
Nope, she never did.Walking Strawman said:
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1. My point is that in terms of VS debating, author intent can be discarded of course. But just because we discard author intent, doesn't mean we should pretend that author intent fits with what we're doing. The joke is that Medaka is ridiculously OP and has these powers. Not that none of these powers are actually real, they don't do anything they're being said to, an entire scene with the sole purpose of showcasing Medaka's power is actually completely invalid, a series that runs around the absurd nature of how strong Medaka is just decided to subvert that by lying about her powers for the first time.
Yes it's inconsistent with all the other feats in the series and doesn't have much of the feats backing. So if you want to not have it on there for those reasons, fine. But not out of some odd interpretation of the event in which it's actually supposed to mean the exact opposite of what it's conveying.
2. "It's a metafictional parody manga" is just a terrible reason in general.
TLDR: I don't have much of a problem with the statement since it's an explicit description of what the character's ability can do by the narrator. However since it is inconsistent and doesn't have a feat backing it up, I'd be fine with us not accepting it.
But I don't want us pretending like the author intent supports this, or that it has to be illegitamate just because the manga's a comedy.
Super TLDR: I'm mostly fine with not upgrading, just not okay with a lot of the reasons being used.
Yes it's inconsistent with all the other feats in the series and doesn't have much of the feats backing. So if you want to not have it on there for those reasons, fine. But not out of some odd interpretation of the event in which it's actually supposed to mean the exact opposite of what it's conveying.
2. "It's a metafictional parody manga" is just a terrible reason in general.
TLDR: I don't have much of a problem with the statement since it's an explicit description of what the character's ability can do by the narrator. However since it is inconsistent and doesn't have a feat backing it up, I'd be fine with us not accepting it.
But I don't want us pretending like the author intent supports this, or that it has to be illegitamate just because the manga's a comedy.
Super TLDR: I'm mostly fine with not upgrading, just not okay with a lot of the reasons being used.
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Adding abilities without substantial evidence something you do be fond of, but yes if there was proper evidence for it. But it wouldn't exactly be useful in a battle without the metric ton of shadow clone feats naruto has demonstrated over the years.
Oh, do i sense some hostility Matt?
If by, debunked you mean not debunked at all sure. I would love to see how you argue against kumagawa erasing concepts on a universal scale not being universal in scale.
Oh, do i sense some hostility Matt?
If by, debunked you mean not debunked at all sure. I would love to see how you argue against kumagawa erasing concepts on a universal scale not being universal in scale.
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1. How are you so certain with the authorial intent in that case? I can safely argue that these guidebook lists are meant as gags that aren't to be taken literally, given that:
2. In this case, it is a valid argument as to why Medaka can beat Ajimu, and why certain abilities sound like they do. The entire manga is one giant joke on Shounen Tropes, including stuff like having a Final Villain which is way above the protagonist, who still loses due to the power of plot being on the protagonist's side.
TLDR: I'm glad we agree on that.
- We never see any of these attacks actually used in detail, or even talked about
- The scale of some of these contradict everything else actually shown in the series
- We never see the effect of any of them, when they are supposedly "being used", showing that they weren't
- A lot of the attacks are clearly jokes in their name, such as "Become Pregnant Skill"
2. In this case, it is a valid argument as to why Medaka can beat Ajimu, and why certain abilities sound like they do. The entire manga is one giant joke on Shounen Tropes, including stuff like having a Final Villain which is way above the protagonist, who still loses due to the power of plot being on the protagonist's side.
TLDR: I'm glad we agree on that.
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Kumagawa never erased any concept on a universal scale, in the OVA which is non-canon all he did was erase parts of the light spectrum, not conceptually erase the idea of a color from existence.CynicalWeeaboo said:Oh, do i sense some hostility Matt?
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It would seem to me that due to the nature of the manga, that Medaka's abilities are never properly expressed. We can note that she has them but cannot put into context of what this would mean in a Vs debate.
As such, those abilities cannot be applied to combat or the like due to lack of knowledge of them or varying intereptation.
Again, the issue doesn't seem that it's a joke. The issue seems that all of this is an enigma.
As such, those abilities cannot be applied to combat or the like due to lack of knowledge of them or varying intereptation.
Again, the issue doesn't seem that it's a joke. The issue seems that all of this is an enigma.
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The Naration says the skill she used is a universe creation skill.Matthew Schroeder said:
Cinematic time exists. the time frame for a fight from out perspective does not matter. and no, idk were you got Simultaneously from?
if you really want to go that deep into semantics over what is considered naration, then we can. You seem to think your interpretation is the only valid one.
When a character goes and says "I'm gonna go destroy the moon" and then slightly later the moon is destroyed, are you actually going to deny that she destroyed the moon? At this point, lets deny every feat that isn't done 100% on screen.
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I... what? Where do I even begin lol. Do you have a single scan of him saying he only erased parts of the spectrum and not just the concept of colors all together? Also, the OVA (which is just an episode of the anime) is canon and fits perfectly into the timeline. The color dude from the OVA is even shown in the CANON manga and is mentioned to have fought against kumagawa iirc.Matthew Schroeder said:Kumagawa never erased any concept on a universal scale, in the OVA which is non-canon all he did was erase parts of the light spectrum, not conceptually erase the idea of a color from existence.CynicalWeeaboo said:Oh, do i sense some hostility Matt?
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Also, no it wasn't a dream but rather a prerecorded message if i'm remembering correctly.
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It is a far better explanation than "LMAO he erased the concept of blue from the universe!!!1", but then again, you are the same person who applies Atziluth feats to Briah Reinhard.
Citation needed for the anime adaptation being canon. The manga is canon, anime is an adaptation and not valid.
Citation needed for the anime adaptation being canon. The manga is canon, anime is an adaptation and not valid.
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its not tho. The name of the skill is Baby Planet. the brief description is that it is a universe creating skillAntvasima said:
yeah, but the dream world seems to have a physical presence. Since Zenkichi and co. do physical training there that effects them in the real world
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Guys, all you literally have is "Universe Create Skill" to go by. Literally just that. That we never see used, is never used, and is never explained. You cannot be so ungodly biased that you think that is sufficient to take a Tier 8 to Tier 2.
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I agree with Matthew and TheC2.
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1. Because the entire joke is centered around Medaka being ridiculously overpowered and having these stupid powers. Them being silly =/= them not existing. Them not abiding by precious powerscaling consistency that only VS debaters at all care about doesn't mean the author intentionally meant that they are fake.
The joke comes from the absurdity being real. It's that she is absurd. Not that she isn't absurd. Or that she's merely being falsely claimed as absurd. Again if you had to bet everything on it what would you say, and what would you honestly think the author was trying to say here
"This character is ridiculously overpowered and has all these silly abilities"
"This character actually doesn't have any of these abilities I'm listing out. I'm really secretly lying to the audience. Everything I'm writing down right now is truly the exact opposite. When I say she can do X, what I really mean is that she can't do X. This isn't meant to at all describe anything she can really do"
VS debating is all about discarding author intent. So you don't need to pretend author intent is on your side. Just discard it for being inconsistent and unsubstantiated by feats.
2. Yes it's a comedy show where some stupid things happen due to its comical nature. But saying "this statement is fake because the show is a comedy" is silly.
I'm dropping this. I'm already fine with no upgrade I just don't like some of these reasons which really doesn't matter.
The joke comes from the absurdity being real. It's that she is absurd. Not that she isn't absurd. Or that she's merely being falsely claimed as absurd. Again if you had to bet everything on it what would you say, and what would you honestly think the author was trying to say here
"This character is ridiculously overpowered and has all these silly abilities"
"This character actually doesn't have any of these abilities I'm listing out. I'm really secretly lying to the audience. Everything I'm writing down right now is truly the exact opposite. When I say she can do X, what I really mean is that she can't do X. This isn't meant to at all describe anything she can really do"
VS debating is all about discarding author intent. So you don't need to pretend author intent is on your side. Just discard it for being inconsistent and unsubstantiated by feats.
2. Yes it's a comedy show where some stupid things happen due to its comical nature. But saying "this statement is fake because the show is a comedy" is silly.
I'm dropping this. I'm already fine with no upgrade I just don't like some of these reasons which really doesn't matter.
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