Mcu what if…? Crt rough draft

[Colonel_Krukov]

Don't want to seem like I'm wanking, but using the number Rocket uses has always bothered me. It's pretty obvious from the statement "No one has anything seen something like this before" indicates a high level of energy, considering things like Supernovas exist and it's only 6-C is eh, but it's whatever I guess.

 

[Eficiente]

• The Watcher would have been able to block the collapse of said Timeline (Low 2-C);

Not really

• To "block"/stop it he would only need to stop the paradox from making the collapse, which is not Low 2-C.
• He didn't say he could, let alone as in just snapping hi fingers and having it fixed.
• He would be able to do it by stopping Strange from reviving her girlfriend before, meaning the paradox never happens. Time Travel with a timeline being destroyed makes little sense (it really does makes sense as the timeline wasn't 100% destroyed yet), but for the Watcher this is a story he already saw and is seeing again, he has the ability of still see Strange before he messed things up while being able to stop him, we even see him at the time he said he could do as much, he just doesn't do it.

There is no reason for this to be a Low 2-C feat.

• Infinite Ultron punches throught Universes across the Multiverse, turning them into one "Messy Universe Soup" (Low 2-C, possibly higher)

Can somebody link the statement and feat? The "possibly higher" is a no, they simply used Dimensional Travel.

• Infinite Ultron rewrites reality with each of his punches (Low 2-C);

That is not Low 2-C at all, he's either

• Going to other realities in a fancy way, meaning Dimensional Travel
• Changing those realities as in changing the people and things around, meaning Transmutation
• Or changing those realities as in changing how the people and things around were since some time in the past, meaning Casuality Manip

To be Low 2-C he would need to either be destroyng those realities, as in timelines, and remaking them, which has no evidence, or changing those whole timeline as what the tiering calls "significantly affect", which as it says needs evidence to be on the same level as destroying the whole timeline, something often done by destroying all of it. This is not even close to it.

also power up the other Guardians of the Multiverse, making him scale fully to IU.
Also another thing worth noticing is that Infinite Ultron is stated to be a danger for the entire Multiverse, further proving his Tier 2 rating.

If I had dimensional & space travel and could blow up planets as I go, that wouldn't prove any Tier 2 rating on me.

Here's my view on timeline scaling

• The Infinity Stones cross scaling is fine imo, since they're one of the big timeline split reasons and are treated as the same across any universe barring minor differences

So as an example

• I think using Infinity Ultron to justify a 3-A to Low 2-C Main TL IG's is understandable

This is wrong.

• On top of how we would be cherry picking what scales and what doesn't and how other weapons like Thor's hammer don't work the same.
• Ultron legit says that the stone are different in each universe and the Watcher sees as impossible what he could achive, they cannot be scaled.
• What do you mean by them being one of "the big timeline split reasons" and what relevance does this have?
• Thanos with his stones actually struggled to do his moon feat, was pushed back from a blast from SW while putting up a barrier, didn't one-shot the likes of Iron Man and Cap. Marvel with the stones, wasn't shown empowering himself with them like Ultron despite knowing them for longer, and the power stone was stated to vary his power based on the target's size whereas Ultron could just do anything pretty much.

 

[chosen]

Can somebody link the statement and feat? The "possibly higher" is a no, they simply used Dimensional Travel

Marvel Writer Reacts to MCU Fan Complaints About Infinity Stones In What If

What If…? head writer A.C. Bradley responded to fan complaints about how Ultron was able to use the Infinity Stones outside of his timeline.

thedirect.com

"Happy Monday! Just a reminder that Ultron is using the Infinity Stones to power himself (same universe being). Also he's legit punching across multiverses turning them into one messy universe soup. #WhatIf #WhatifMarvel #WeDidOurHW #YouAreAllAmazing
"

1:25 is in reference to thus

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Not really...

Party pooper

 

[chosen]

Also wouldn't an threat to the multiverse imply vultron can destroy timelines overtime?
I can be wrong though

 

[chosen]

He didn't say he could, let alone as in just snapping hi fingers and having it fixed.

Also pretty sure he implied he could but he can't intervine

 

[ThanatosX]

Not really

• To "block"/stop it he would only need to stop the paradox from making the collapse, which is not Low 2-C.
• He didn't say he could, let alone as in just snapping hi fingers and having it fixed.
• He would be able to do it by stopping Strange from reviving her girlfriend before, meaning the paradox never happens. Time Travel with a timeline being destroyed makes little sense (it really does makes sense as the timeline wasn't 100% destroyed yet), but for the Watcher this is a story he already saw and is seeing again, he has the ability of still see Strange before he messed things up while being able to stop him, we even see him at the time he said he could do as much, he just doesn't do it.

There is no reason for this to be a Low 2-C feat.

The timeline was already collapsing on itself, so stopping the paradox would leave the timeline still half collpased. Space and Time itself were collapsing too, so Time Traveling to before Strange Supreme could revive Christine would be impossible for the Watcher and assuming he could do that instead of saying that he would be able to simply restore the timeline is your interpretation.

Can somebody link the statement and feat? The "possibly higher" is a no, they simply used Dimensional Travel.

Chosen shared the article here:

Marvel Writer Reacts to MCU Fan Complaints About Infinity Stones In What If

What If…? head writer A.C. Bradley responded to fan complaints about how Ultron was able to use the Infinity Stones outside of his timeline.

thedirect.com

"Happy Monday! Just a reminder that Ultron is using the Infinity Stones to power himself (same universe being). Also he's legit punching across multiverses turning them into one messy universe soup. #WhatIf #WhatifMarvel #WeDidOurHW #YouAreAllAmazing
"

1:25 is in reference to thus

The possibly higher was due to the fact that he is punching through multiple Universes, not just one, turning all of them into a "Messy Universe Soup", but if it is too controversial it can be just Low 2-C without anything else.

That is not Low 2-C at all, he's either

• Going to other realities in a fancy way, meaning Dimensional Travel
• Changing those realities as in changing the people and things around, meaning Transmutation
• Or changing those realities as in changing how the people and things around were since some time in the past, meaning Casuality Manip

To be Low 2-C he would need to either be destroyng those realities, as in timelines, and remaking them, which has no evidence, or changing those whole timeline as what the tiering calls "significantly affect", which as it says needs evidence to be on the same level as destroying the whole timeline, something often done by destroying all of it. This is not even close to it.

The effect used clearly indicates that he is using Reality Warping to affect the Timeline. The people that are watching get turned into Wakandian and Skrulls, which means that it's not Dimensional Travel or Causality Manipulation. Transmutation, instead, it's unlikely considering that at the end we see that they are in a ice planet with a giant moon. It's much more plausible that he was simply rewriting reality.

If I had dimensional & space travel and could blow up planets as I go, that wouldn't prove any Tier 2 rating on me.

Destroying one planet or galaxy at the time wouldn't make him a danger to the Multiverse. The only possibly way it could be one is if he could destroy at the very least a Timeline at the time, which given the context and the Word of God is much more likely.

 

[Eficiente]

Marvel Writer Reacts to MCU Fan Complaints About Infinity Stones In What If

What If…? head writer A.C. Bradley responded to fan complaints about how Ultron was able to use the Infinity Stones outside of his timeline.

thedirect.com

"Happy Monday! Just a reminder that Ultron is using the Infinity Stones to power himself (same universe being). Also he's legit punching across multiverses turning them into one messy universe soup. #WhatIf #WhatifMarvel #WeDidOurHW #YouAreAllAmazing
"

1:25 is in reference to thus

I somehow imagined it would be better than this, that doesn't mean he's destroying them, just messing them up. Earlier in the fight punches broke "portals" from universe to universe and were left open, a galaxy got destroyed, and a universe some got part of it turned into something else, what he said isn't wrong to describe what happened.

Also wouldn't an threat to the multiverse imply vultron can destroy timelines overtime?
I can be wrong though

No. A threat to anything could do bad things to something, even if at parts of it and not most of it. Some criminal in a building being a threat to it may end up killing 5 persons and that's it, was he not a threat to the building before doing that killing? That is a rhetorical quesion and this is something considered basic when dealing with this.

Really, Ultron should have Infinite speed if he were to one day reach to invade every of the infinite universes that multiply themselves into infinte more for each action in each of the infinite universes, but nobody would clearly ever believe he had that because he didn't show it, it goes against what was shown and clearly they weren't exact.

Also pretty sure he implied he could but he can't intervine

He also drew a comparison between how he would and how Strange fixed things, the point is that he didn't do something to affirm he could fix things right there right now.

The timeline was already collapsing on itself, so stopping the paradox would leave the timeline still half collpased.

By that logic, the good Strange stopping the bad one wouldn't have fixed the world too. Unless it would have, if things were to fix themselves by reality lacking a reality-destroying paradox. But it's not like he would have just stopped the collpase as it is and leave things like that.

Space and Time itself were collapsing too, so Time Traveling to before Strange Supreme could revive Christine would be impossible for the Watcher and assuming he could do that instead of saying that he would be able to simply restore the timeline is your interpretation.

You missed the meaning of my words, by the Watch's position, he can. He already knew the story, what would happen, he "followed" Strange to the past and kept up with universes in a future after this timeline got destroyed. It just has an extra layer.

The effect used clearly indicates that he is using Reality Warping to affect the Timeline. The people that are watching get turned into Wakandian and Skrulls, which means that it's not Dimensional Travel or Causality Manipulation. Transmutation, instead, it's unlikely considering that at the end we see that they are in a ice planet with a giant moon. It's much more plausible that he was simply rewriting reality.

This is dogmatism.

Destroying one planet or galaxy at the time wouldn't make him a danger to the Multiverse. The only possibly way it could be one is if he could destroy at the very least a Timeline at the time, which given the context and the Word of God is much more likely.

This too is dogmatism. The math of summing something that isn't a Low 2-C feat + something that too isn't a Low 2-C feat doesn't make things "much more likely".

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Are you okay with the 3-B feat at least?

 

[ThanatosX]

I somehow imagined it would be better than this, that doesn't mean he's destroying them, just messing them up. Earlier in the fight punches broke "portals" from universe to universe and were left open, a galaxy got destroyed, and a universe some got part of it turned into something else, what he said isn't wrong to describe what happened.

He is "significantly affecting" the Timelines by altering their reality simply by punching through them. That's a Low 2-C feat.

No. A threat to anything could do bad things to something, even if at parts of it and not most of it. Some criminal in a building being a threat to it may end up killing 5 persons and that's it, was he not a threat to the building before doing that killing? That is a rhetorical quesion and this is something considered basic when dealing with this.

There is a big difference between a building and a Multiverse, and I don't think I have to explain why the analogy is wrong. Some criminal can kill the people inside the building but can't destroy the building itself, so they are a danger for the people inside the building and not the building itself. Meanwhile, Ultron was clearly stated to be a danger for the Multiverse, which is already a big difference.

By that logic, the good Strange stopping the bad one wouldn't have fixed the world too. Unless it would have, if things were to fix themselves by reality lacking a reality-destroying paradox. But it's not like he would have just stopped the collpase as it is and leave things like that.

In fact no one said that Strange defeating Strange Supreme would have stopped the collapse, and there is nothing that point towards that. His objective was preventing Strange Supreme from absprbing him so that he wouldn't be able to change the Absolute Point, which would then lead to the absolute collapse of the Timeline.

You missed the meaning of my words, by the Watch's position, he can. He already knew the story, what would happen, he "followed" Strange to the past and kept up with universes in a future after this timeline got destroyed. It just has an extra layer.

Again, that's your interpretation. And I don't think I am understanding fully what you are saying.

This is dogmatism.

I could say the same. The scenes speaks by itself, and it's pretty clear that he is changing reality itself.

I don't want to be too rude, but it seems that you are downplaying quite heavily the feats shown.

Anyways, if you are against Low 2-C Infinity Ultron, then I suggest you to come to the actual CRT when it will be done, considering that at the moment we are just organizing it.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Agreed, this is the wrong place for debating whether or not it's accepted, that's what CRT's are for.

 

[Coolboy6]

I was afraid this would happen

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

could say the same. The scenes speaks by itself, and it's pretty clear that he is changing reality itself.

I don't want to be too rude, but it seems that you are downplaying quite heavily the feats shown.

Anyways, if you are against Low 2-C Infinity Ultron, then I suggest you to come to the actual CRT when it will be done, considering that at the moment we are just organizing it.

I mean it's clear that he has a personal vendetta with MCU for long timr and it's not the first time he always downplaying the verse

Sorry but i can't hold it to said this

 

[Qawsedf234]

he always downplaying the verse

Just because you question the validity of a rating does not make it downplaying. Some things are just wrong and shouldn't be used.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Just because you question the validity of a rating does not make it downplaying. Some things are just wrong and shouldn't be used.

Perhaps

 

[Eficiente]

Are you okay with the 3-B feat at least?

Something like that, the bite was definitely 4-A, but a 3-C or somewhat lesser explosion to his body at that size would injure him. I don't believe his every attack and durability in any part of his body are 3-B on the same level as the calc (Yes, durability too. A 10-B human could take some 9-A fatality that would leave him a skeleton, for example, and that doesn't mean their durability is at that level. One doesn't need to destroy all of someone to scale to their durability).

I mean it's clear that he has a personal vendetta with MCU for long timr and it's not the first time he always downplaying the verse

The mentality behind this comment is something to reconsider and improve. I give input to the verse, often correct but you see it as wrong not just at times, but always, particularly as downplay in a way that there isn't room for what I say to possibly be correct, and even with me having a personal vendetta to the point where this is worth being informed. I would say that this seems crazy but that would be inexact, it's uneducated to be this unwelcoming and affirm my person to have a clear personal vendetta, even if you just so happen to see in my part comments that you believe are wrong, you cannot share your deduction of a would-be clear malice on someone's part this casually. You could have however waited for most of what I said to be properly evaluated and then report me in the rules violation thread as you believing that I do this to the MCU, it would have followed a proper emotionless evaluation of what I have been doing and a judgment with no wrong form of bias or possible harm.

I say this here because of the potencial users being influenced by the comment; That is not exemplary.

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

Something like that, the bite was definitely 4-A, but a 3-C or somewhat lesser explosion to his body at that size would injure him. I don't believe his every attack and durability in any part of his body are 3-B on the same level as the calc (Yes, durability too. A 10-B human could take some 9-A fatality that would leave him a skeleton, for example, and that doesn't mean their durability is at that level. One doesn't need to destroy all of someone to scale to their durability).

Could you elaborate on this since I believe the 3-B was due to just size manip and he grew to a size where his head alone was about the size of a galaxy. Wouldn't that alone make him 3-B at least with size manip?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Something like that, the bite was definitely 4-A, but a 3-C or somewhat lesser explosion to his body at that size would injure him. I don't believe his every attack and durability in any part of his body are 3-B on the same level as the calc (Yes, durability too. A 10-B human could take some 9-A fatality that would leave him a skeleton, for example, and that doesn't mean their durability is at that level. One doesn't need to destroy all of someone to scale to their durability).

I hard disagree. Correcting me if I'm wrong, but it has nothing to do with destroying the galaxy, he's 3-B via sheer size.

 

[Dalesean027]

I hard disagree. Correcting me if I'm wrong, but it has nothing to do with destroying the galaxy, he's 3-B via sheer size.

Something like that, the bite was definitely 4-A, but a 3-C or somewhat lesser explosion to his body at that size would injure him. I don't believe his every attack and durability in any part of his body are 3-B on the same level as the calc

You're wholely wrong here, what we've
had here is already correct and as Colonel said we literally see his head and shoulders even by sheer size outreach and dwarf the entire galaxy alone let alone the size of the explosion following. Anything else would be actual downplay

 

[Dalesean027]

Back to Ultrons reality changing punches there's a clear difference from when he's doing those consecutive punches on the watcher vs them flying through other universe's that you're ignoring @Eficiente when he flies Uatu through other realities we can clearly see holes as if glass shattered and they fell threw a window when they travel to another universe but when he's doing the barrage on the watcher it's a completely different visual effect accompanied with those same civilians simply being overwritten and warped by each punch and instead of a hole appearing with each punch we clearly see a blue wave encompassing everything in view along with the statement from WoG that he made a "messy universe soup" with his punches. These are facts that shouldn't be ignored for the sake of your arguement

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

Ultron also just blatantly ******* says he can destroy galaxies with a thought lmao.

 

[Dalesean027]

Anyways, if you are against Low 2-C Infinity Ultron, then I suggest you to come to the actual CRT when it will be done, considering that at the moment we are just organizing it.

Agreed, this is the wrong place for debating whether

As for now that's all I have to say in response to what you've said here and I agree with Thanatos and Colonel that this simply isn't the place for this to be debated at and as such we should move on and continue as we have been(BTW GUYS PLEASE DON'T FORGET TO HAVE THIS ENERGY WITH THE DAMN COSMOLOGY THREAD POST ETERNALS and NWH too probably idk lol)

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ultron also just blatantly ******* says he can destroy galaxies with a thought lmao.

And pretty much did it and was only stop by the drip supreme

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Also lets not forget the fact that sacred timeline Thanos stated he was going to reduce the universe to it's last atom and remake it using the IG, The Watcher actually broke his oath due to the threat Ultron Infinity posed to the multiverse (The same Watcher whose nigh-omniscient about the multiverse) and Ultron Infinity before making that blatant 3-B statement literally grew 3-B in size in episode 8.

I can 100% guarantee that if we asked WoG the question "Can Ultron Infinity one shot universes?" they would say yes but ofc we wouldn't and shouldn't do that since that's a balant leading question for battle boarding purposes and clear abuse of WoG yet all the clean cut available evidence isn't enough? Do we expect authors to be explicitly detailed in their chosen medium just to fit our (constantly in flux) standards?

 

[DaReaperMan]

 

[Eficiente]

Could you elaborate on this since I believe the 3-B was due to just size manip and he grew to a size where his head alone was about the size of a galaxy. Wouldn't that alone make him 3-B at least with size manip?

You're wholely wrong here, what we've
had here is already correct and as Colonel said we literally see his head and shoulders even by sheer size outreach and dwarf the entire galaxy alone let alone the size of the explosion following. Anything else would be actual downplay

Well, most often in fiction growing one's size doesn't scale power/every attack and speed proportionally. But their greater size has feats and they can do that much at that size. If the explosion after the bite is 3-C then that's perfect, but would it be the same as if it was around 25 times more powerful and concentrated in the same place? Or would a bite make an explosion/damage around 25 times more powerful than the explosion we saw?

That's not the same as the fact that if he was moving around then the force would be 3-B distributed in his whole body.

Ultron also just blatantly ******* says he can destroy galaxies with a thought lmao.

Yes, that is 3-B. No need for anger, I didn't disagree with everything. That wasn't even in what I quoted.

Back to Ultrons reality changing punches there's a clear difference from when he's doing those consecutive punches on the watcher vs them flying through other universe's that you're ignoring @Eficiente when he flies Uatu through other realities we can clearly see holes as if glass shattered and they fell threw a window when they travel to another universe but when he's doing the barrage on the watcher it's a completely different visual effect accompanied with those same civilians simply being overwritten and warped by each punch and instead of a hole appearing with each punch we clearly see a blue wave encompassing everything in view along with the statement from WoG that he made a "messy universe soup" with his punches. These are facts that shouldn't be ignored for the sake of your arguement

The "messy universe soup" claim would fit in with your take, all 3 takes on what I said he could be doing, and even more takes. It doesn't matter because it's literally too vague.

And that's pretty much I need to say for the feat to still not be Low 2-C based on what you say there, the visuals were doing stuff unlike what was shown before and those areas were warped by some ability, that's not the same as this being a Low 2-C feat, for the latter it would first need proof that the whole timeline was affected and second that the way in which it was affect equals in power the way in which the whole thing can be destroyed.

How one ability shows things like glass shattered and other as a blue wave shows there were not the same ability or at least not done in the same way, but that much doesn't mean anything tier wise. Meaning that there was no need in going over how things looked. If this was Low 2-C, a sentence or 2 would objectively show it.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

So you have at least agreed to 3-B via size manipulation?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I don't want this to sound rude in anyway, but is it okay if you let us get on with the draft of the CRT? We're trying to organise things here and you're kinda slowing us down in the midst of this. I get that you have opinions on whether stuff is viable or not, but this isn't the right time or place for this. You can bring up and debate your points in the CRT itself to your hearts content.

 

[Qawsedf234]

but is it okay if you let us get on with the draft of the CRT

Isn't the draft done already? I already gave a write up for both Watcher and Ultron and the stuff for Strange would be scaling to the latter in the second key.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

There's other stuff posted. There's pics that have some info of the IG powers and the Rhodey scaling as well.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Isn't the draft done already? I already gave a write up for both Watcher and Ultron and the stuff for Strange would be scaling to the latter in the second key.

I'm not done with scans and the new abilities from EP 9

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Isn't the draft done already? I already gave a write up for both Watcher and Ultron and the stuff for Strange would be scaling to the latter in the second key.

And I don’t think every came to the same conclusion on the scaling stuff

 

[Urshani]

Does this scale to mainline MCU?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Sorta. The IG does, Thanos sorta can, although he'd get yeeted if he used the full power.

I think there's some odd bits from the variants that can be used on the main counterparts as well iirc.

 

[chosen]

Well, most often in fiction growing one's size doesn't scale power/every attack and speed proportionally. But their greater size has feats and they can do that much at that size. If the explosion after the bite is 3-C then that's perfect, but would it be the same as if it was around 25 times more powerful and concentrated in the same place? Or would a bite make an explosion/damage around 25 times more powerful than the explosion we saw?

That's not the same as the fact that if he was moving around then the force would be 3-B distributed in his whole body.

Yes, that is 3-B. No need for anger, I didn't disagree with everything. That wasn't even in what I quoted.

The "messy universe soup" claim would fit in with your take, all 3 takes on what I said he could be doing, and even more takes. It doesn't matter because it's literally too vague.

And that's pretty much I need to say for the feat to still not be Low 2-C based on what you say there, the visuals were doing stuff unlike what was shown before and those areas were warped by some ability, that's not the same as this being a Low 2-C feat, for the latter it would first need proof that the whole timeline was affected and second that the way in which it was affect equals in power the way in which the whole thing can be destroyed.

How one ability shows things like glass shattered and other as a blue wave shows there were not the same ability or at least not done in the same way, but that much doesn't mean anything tier wise. Meaning that there was no need in going over how things looked. If this was Low 2-C, a sentence or 2 would objectively show it.

Do you agree with at least scaling the galaxy explosion created by vultron and scale watcher to it since he tanked it?
Like he had no visible injury and was still able to survive ultron beating tf out of him

 

[Revan_Laha]

Efficiente laughing like Zola in Ultron's body

 

[ThanatosX]

Let's go back to actually organizing the revision. If Eficiente have anything to say he can talk during the CRT, this is not the place considering that he is slowing down the work.

 

[chosen]

Btw another thing i would like to point outt since seems Like it wasn't

-the mind stone from ep 5 can purify zombies
-Is possible the tentacle monster from ep 4 is the same as ep 1 since:They look the same, act the same and both come from the portals and peggy also had an reaction whrn strange released him Implying she though it was The same monster. If this shit True that means strange physically survived an slam from the tentacle monster who broke red skill bones which is consistent with him tanking the Small building+ level explosion with 0 damage

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

-Character Like vultron and wasp can kill zombies Meaning type immortallity 8 negation

That is not immortality Type 8 negation.

 

[chosen]

That is not immortality Type 8 negation.

I Always confuse type 7 immortallity wuth 8 Smh