MCU speed downgrade

[Teezar]

I'm pretty sure quicksilver is far faster than bullets the Ultron bullets hitting him can be seen as PIS or his reaction speed >>>>travel speed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

reaction speed >>>>travel speed

Under this assumption we need to downgrade him as well. Becuase that means he physically cannot move as fast as he can see things.

 

[Teezar]

He did saw a laser blast slow from his perspective and all characters in that battle and also the novel stated he could move almost light speed soo.
Are these gonna be considered PIS or are the bullet case gonna be considered as PIS?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Are these gonna be considered PIS or are the bullet case gonna be considered as PIS?

The same novel said his top speed was that of a jet.

If by novel you mean the tech manual, then that heavily works against your point. Because that said Quicksilver's top speed was something like 400 m/s when they first fought and he blitzed the entire cast. The approaching lightspeed thing was a theoretical upper value because he kept getting faster.

 

[Teezar]

So relativistic while running? Or at full speed?

 

[Qawsedf234]

So relativistic while running? Or at full speed?

Neither, because trying to say Quicksilver is Relativistic is like trying to scale Loki to the Bifrost's teleportation speed. It makes no sense.

 

[Hellbeast]

At most it could be a varied up to kind of deal

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

Fair, as scaling Valkyrie may cause lots of other to scale, like Loki or Captain America, which will make scaling odd.

How would scaling to Loki make it odd?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Question. Why do we not use the Ancient One perceiving lightning slowly when she talks to Strange? Or do we?

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

I don’t think we do. Strange also did, correct?

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I mean, he was there with her so it's possible.

 

[Hellbeast]

Is that even calced

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

I heard somewhere that seeing lightning in slow motion was a MFTL feat. Wouldn't that be kinda outlierish?

 

[Fastestthingalive50]

I heard somewhere that seeing lightning in slow motion was a MFTL feat. Wouldn't that be kinda outlierish?

I mean, not always I don’t think.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I guess it's at least worth getting it calced, and seeing if the results are applicable or not.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

I requested it to be calced in the request thread.

 

[Dalesean027]

Dude I've requested for that to be calc'd and visions lasers in Wandavision a number of times over some months now calc team sleeps when it comes to mcu

 

[Zamasu_Chan]

tfw a a downgrade turns into an upgrade.

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

tfw a a downgrade turns into an upgrade.

Reverse Uno card intensifies

 

[Valiant_Abyss]

What is it with VSBW and turning upgrades into downgrades and vice versa???

 

[Teezar]

Neither, because trying to say Quicksilver is Relativistic is like trying to scale Loki to the Bifrost's teleportation speed. It makes no sense.

How is this the same?

I heard somewhere that seeing lightning in slow motion was a MFTL feat. Wouldn't that be kinda outlierish?

Seeing lightning as slow motion should be FTL as shown in CW flash or superman in smallville seeing light from a camera as slow and rated FTL+.

Neither, because trying to say Quicksilver is Relativistic is like trying to scale Loki to the Bifrost's teleportation speed. It makes no sense.

The novel stated he can accelerate to close to light speed, we obviously can't ignore it.
And the guidebook shows that ultron shoots lasers which quicksilver could react to and perceive as slow motion we can't ignore all this.

tfw a a downgrade turns into an upgrade.

I've seen this happen few times here.

 

[Teezar]

What is it with VSBW and turning upgrades into downgrades and vice versa???

Sometimes it's better not to create threads.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ok but seriously can someone calc Thor dodging visions beam(and white vision reacting to said beam)cuz I feel like it would yield some mhs+ lvl speed

 

[Qawsedf234]

Question. Why do we not use the Ancient One perceiving lightning slowly when she talks to Strange?

Because its in the Astral Plane rather than the real world. Physics are different there.

Vision's energy can be calced for speed, but you cannot get a rating from it unless you assume it was a constant set speed to it.

 

[Dalesean027]

Because its in the Astral Plane rather than the real world. Physics are different there.

That would just be speed through astral projection it shouldn't not be listed at all

 

[Dalesean027]

Vision's energy can be calced for speed, but you cannot get a rating from it unless you assume it was a constant set speed to it.

Have you watched any of visions fights? the beams are never stated or show to have different firing speeds they're pretty consistent especially when u see them fired back to back, I'm not understanding where u keep getting this notion that some of these things don't keep consistent speeds when it's never stated or shown otherwise

Literally watch this and honestly tell me that these beams aren't consistent to each other

 

[Eficiente]

"Being in the Astral Dimension sometimes slows down time, Black Panther and Killmonger were there, had lengthy conversations with their fathers and awaken moments after their initial burial to be there. We can add this like a speed amp for Strange and Anc. One in that form but they can't do anything battle wise, maybe that's what Strange used to see all those futures in Infinity War."

Fun fact the first time it was shown in comics it was stated clearly to be a speed amp too, or rather they could go at any speed like that and it didn't matter.

I'll also try to ignore how nobody could think of how Strange's love interest in the movie could react to stuff going on in a battle with 2 characters in Astral forms and Strange had time to talk with her for a while w/o getting attacked by a would-be relativistic foe just a bit stunned.

 

[AnonymousBlank]

What is it with VSBW and turning upgrades into downgrades and vice versa???

Because we are subconsciously spiteful af so when someone tries to change the status quo, we must flip it on its head and do the opposite.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Have you watched any of visions fights?

Yes and it's still our policy that you cannot use a calced speed from one scene to calc another speed to a different scene. Calc stacking has more or less always been a rule.

If you want to scale people to the that's fine, but you cannot use the beam to get a speed calc unless you can prove it has a constant set rating.

astral projection it shouldn't not be listed at all

If you want to calc it feel free to. But it scales to no one in a relevant way.

Because we are subconsciously spiteful af so when someone tries to change the status quo, we must flip it on its head and do the opposite.

I mean we're still massively high balling their speeds. It's just that we're no longer doing so from travel speed calcs.

 

[Dalesean027]

Yes and it's still our policy that you cannot use a calced speed from one scene to calc another speed to a different scene. Calc stacking has more or less always been a rule.

If you want to scale people to the that's fine, but you cannot use the beam to get a speed calc unless you can prove it has a constant set rating.

Who suggested calc stacking? This is literally one scene or heck even in this fight there is 1 consistent shot of the beams being fired back to back from one angle, there's literally no room for assumptions when we're literally being showed many time on screen during 1 scene repeated constant beam fire. Again calc stacking can't even apply here it's literally judging one scene where we're shown multiple beams being fired from one shot within the scene, there's no stacking calcs or feats from different scenes or shots because this only happens in 1 shot

 

[Qawsedf234]

Who suggested calc stacking?

If the beam does not have a stated or agreed upon base speed like Thor's lightning blasts, it would be calc stacking unless the beam's speed and the deflection/reaction feat happened in the same shot. You cannot scale the beam to say, Mach 2500 based on Wanda Vision then scale Glavie's reaction to the beam in Infinity War based on the assumption that its always Mach 2500.

Again calc stacking can't even apply here it's literally judging one scene where we're shown multiple beams being fired from one shot within the scene

I think your missing my point again. Calcing the beam's speed is fine and scaling people to the beam is fine if they have the evidence for it. But what you can't do is use the beam in another speed calc to get a better rating, since that would be calc stacking if you cannot find a canon set speed for the beam.

 

[Dalesean027]

it would be calc stacking unless the beam's speed and the deflection/reaction feat happened in the same shot

Which we do

But what you can't do is use the beam in another speed calc to get a better rating, since that would be calc stacking if you cannot find a canon set speed for the beam.

And this was never suggested once by me so it's a moot point this whole time I've never once said to use this to get another calc or rating I've simply explained why the feat is usable and not calc stacking from the way it's presented. The reactions and firing of these beams all happens in one shot. If I could calc it I would've but I'm obviously not a member of the calc team nor do I know how to calc these feats, that's kinda obviously the reason I've put in multiple request for it to be calc'd (not to sound rude if I do)

 

[Qawsedf234]

The reactions and firing of these beams all happens in one shot

If its the linked video you posted I'm mostly sure the reason why its never been calced is because its not a feat that will get an upgrade. Even if the beams covered 100 miles in some of those shots you're only looking at like, mach 480 for the beam's entire speed and at best a slightly better twitch movement from either vision.

You could get something with Glavie reflection, but that would be calc stacking.

 

[Dalesean027]

Would like to add that I do understand your point and that for each scene we would need to get calc's to see how consistent the speed is to even be able to determine if it has a set/relative speed in each time it's used

 

[Dalesean027]

If its the linked video you posted I'm mostly sure the reason why its never been calced is because its not a feat that will get an upgrade. Even if the beams covered 100 miles in some of those shots you're only looking at like, mach 480 things for the beam's entire speed and at best a slightly better twitch movement from either vision.

Completely understandable but the point isn't for upgrades, verses need supporting feats and this is very clearly one them had this already been calc'd it would've helped regardless either way when clarifying the verse's speed feats even if it doesn't directly scale to how fast one character can move relative to their own attack

 

[Qawsedf234]

Completely understandable but the point isn't for upgrades, verses need supporting feats and this is very clearly one them had this already been calc'd it would've helped regardless either way when clarifying the verse's speed feats even if it doesn't directly scale to how fast one character can move relative to their own attack

Well as a basic overview I guess

• Westview has a PO of NJ 08801 which corresponds with the IRL area of Annadale NJ
• The beam in this scene travels from the forest to the edge of Wanda's dome in 4 milliseconds
• This IRL town at its longest point is around 3.5 kilometers
• 3,617.27 meters / 2 / 0.04 seconds = 45,215.875 m/s or Mach 131.824

Assuming of course, they were in the dead center of town and fired at the longest possible distance. Other ratings will dump you down to single or low double digit mach.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Yes and it's still our policy that you cannot use a calced speed from one scene to calc another speed to a different scene. Calc stacking has more or less always been a rule.

If you want to scale people to the that's fine, but you cannot use the beam to get a speed calc unless you can prove it has a constant set rating.


If you want to calc it feel free to. But it scales to no one in a relevant way.


I mean we're still massively high balling their speeds. It's just that we're no longer doing so from travel speed calcs.

Why would visions beam be any slower then what has been shown before especially since he was pretty agro after he was awakened

 

[Qawsedf234]

Why would visions beam be any slower then what has been shown

Because that's calc stacking. Unless we have a set base speed to work from, both the feat and the reaction must occur in the same scene or its calc stacking.

Iron Man's wrist laser has a set speed of light speed. His repulsors have varying speeds and rely on power scaling. You could use the first to calc a speed rating but you could not use the second.

 

[Dalesean027]

Well as a basic overview I guess

• Westview has a PO of NJ 08801 which corresponds with the IRL area of Annadale NJ
• The beam in this scene travels from the forest to the edge of Wanda's dome in 4 milliseconds
• This IRL town at its longest point is around 3.5 kilometers
• 3,617.27 meters / 2 / 0.04 seconds = 45,215.875 m/s or Mach 131.824

Assuming of course, they were in the dead center of town and fired at the longest possible distance. Other ratings will dump you down to single or low double digit mach.

Thank you I appreciate the cooperation and help with the calc here and if you could walk me through this what would be needed to determine base speed, would you need multiple calc's of different scenes with multiple ends to find consistency among them or would it purely rely on statements and things that exist in the real world such as iron man's lasers being SOL or Thor's lightning being real lightning

 

[Qawsedf234]

would it purely rely on statements and things that exist in the real world such as iron man's lasers being SOL

Basically this. If there's a tech manual that states "The beams are light speed" or "Vision's energy blasts can cover 10 miles in under half a second" or something like that, you could use that speed to get a rating in any scene where a character reacts to the attack.

As an example of this currently Madara from Naruto has a speed rating to reacting to an attack with a stated SoL speed. You can therefore get a speed from that reaction, since the object attacking him has that set speed.

EDIT: Oh, as a better example just look at the DCEU. All of their speed ratings come from a guidebook statement and other evidence scaling Heat Vision beams to SoL.