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MCU Revision

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Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan

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The Defenders have came out for quite a while, yet no upgrades have been performed up to now.

Black Sky Elektra was able to harm Luke Cage, making her Small Building level. Daredevil is capable of fighting Elektra. Iron Fist could harm Luke Cage and Elektra. They all scale to each other.

Peak humans being more powerful than superhumans like Captain America and Bucky seems questionable. Captain America should be upgraded to Small Building level.

I never understood why Cap and those comparable are stuck at Wall level (**** that stupid #ForeverWallLevel meme). Captain America was able to overwhelm the superhumanly strong Spider-Man. The reason I get from other people is Captain America outskilled him. So what? Spider-Man can't be an entire tier up and get defeated.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTtT8DK2Gcc

01:37 : If Spider-Man was an entire tier stronger, he would have pulled Captain America. Captain America was able to play tug-of-war with Spider-Man, and pull Spider-Man towards him.

02:07 : Captain America grabbed Spider-Man's webbing and pulled him towards him, and knocked him down with a powerful shield blow.

02:25: Spider-Man threw himself towards Captain America at full force, but instead gets knocked backwards. Which means Captain America neutralized Spider-Man's kinetic energy and even knocked him back, making the force he exerted>Spider-Man's.

I know its a bit of a stretch, but Captain America tanked hits from Prime Ultron. He can also trade blows with Winter Soldier (a being comparable), who can take hits from his 8-A shield. Captain America can also tank being hit by his own shield on multiple occasions. I don't expect anyone to accept 8-A baseline superhumans, but yeah.

So Captain America-levelers should be 9-A at least. Especially when Spider-Man, Star-Lord, Gamora, Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, Daredevil, Elektra and even Rocket Raccon are now 9-A.
 
Btw in case some people says Spider-Man's 9-A rating comes from effortlessly overpowering Bucky, a Captain America-leveler, lemme explain. Bucky is more powerful when he is Winter Soldier. By Winter Soldier I mean mind-controlled, with more killer instinct. We can easily see that. Bucky when mind-controlled contended with Captain America, while when not, his fighting style as seen in the apartment scene is simply ****. Moreover, when he wasn't mind-controlled, he got overpowered by Black Panther, who Captain America has no problem with. And when mind-controlled, Bucky gains the upper hand against CA.

You might be saying: If Bucky isn't that powerful when not mind-controlled, then 9-A Spidey isn't a thing! However, Spider-Man survived being crushed by (part of) a building in Spider-Man: Homecoming, along with other 9-A feats mentioned by other respectable VS Battles Wiki knowledgeable members.
 
I think that this seems reasonable, but would appreciate more input from Matthew.
 
The durability calc that Luke Cage is scaled to seems to be just above the midpoint for Wall level, and thus only barely qualifies for Wall level+. IIRC, Luke was briefly knocked unconsious by that building collapse, so I'm not really sure why he's considered 9-A for it. Unless there's a better feat for him that I'm not remembering, I think that Luke Cage and anyone who scales to him may need to be downgraded to Wall level+.

I believe it was stated that Elektra was holding back against Daredevil due to her regaining memories of him. Iron Fist's punches had no effect against Luke Cage until he used his powers, and Elektra needed Danny alive so he could open the gate with his powers. Elektra took direct chi punches from Iron Fist twice with only mild injury.

Daredevil has a feat of knocking Bakuto into a stack of concrete blocks with enough force to shatter them. That should be a Wall level feat, so I think Daredevil, Bakuto, Iron Fist without chi, and others who scale to them should be upgraded to Wall level, while Luke Cage, Jessica Jones, Black Sky Elektra and anyone who scales to them should be Wall level+. Also, Jessica Jones has a lifting strength feat of supporting the weight of an elevator containing Iron Fist and Luke Cage with one arm. Not sure exactly how heavy that would be, but I would guess it's around Class 5. That would also scale to Luke Cage.
 
Luke Cage has this other feat when he survived the destruction of his bar and walked out with no apparent injury, which is still Room level. I agree with your other suggestions. What do you think about Captain America being upgraded to 9-A?
 
DmarcvelCOO said:
U forgot to add when he was able to hold his own against Ironman

So yes I agree to
Click to expand...
It was agreed that it was PIS, though I don't actually agree. Captain America is possibly 8-A for fighting Iron Man and tanking hits from his own shield, and his shield can cause 8-A damage. However, 8-A seems too much for a slightly superhuman, so 9-A is more reasonable IMO.
 
I agree with the whole Defenders scenario. In fact we should have another tab for when Elektra was Black Sky since she is clearly much more powerful than how she was before.

She needed Danny alive so she didn't kill him, Jessica is superior physically, she managed to hurt Luke (with concussions and such), and fighting Daredevil is still debatable since they had a weird love/hate thing going on.
 
Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan said:
DmarcvelCOO said:
U forgot to add when he was able to hold his own against Ironman

So yes I agree to
Click to expand...
It was agreed that it was PIS, though I don't actually agree. Captain America is possibly 8-A for fighting Iron Man and tanking hits from his own shield, and his shield can cause 8-A damage. However, 8-A seems too much for a slightly superhuman, so 9-A is more reasonable IMO.
Click to expand...
I'm not saying he's on Ironman's level I'm just saying he can take some damage from Ironman
 
Captain America might scale to Spider-Man to some extent, though it didn't seem like Spider-Man was treating the fight very seriously and had a considerable disadvantage in skill and experience compared to Cap on top of that.

Also, didn't someone state a while back that Luke Cage reacting to the RPG was somewhere between Athletic Human and Superhuman in speed and not Subsonic? Was that ever resolved?
 
Spider-Man was not as casual when he fought Falcon and Bucky, we saw him strain quite a bit.

Spider-Man lolstomped Bucky for he isn't possessed by that time, therefore less killer instinct.

Iron Man also said Captain America would have beaten Spider-Man if he wanted to.

Regarding the Luke Cage thing, I do not know.
 
Captain America took hits from Spider-Man and there's no proof that he shouldn't scale to Spider-Man. Also I doubt Spider-Man wasn't taking the fight seriously, it's just his attitude that makes it seem that way.

Besides Iron Man clearly said Cap could've stomped Spider-Man so it seems like Cap was the one not taking it seriously since Spidey was a kid.
 
While I'm not knowlegable about the Defenders I think the scaling suggested seems fine.

I'm not 100% on Cap and the others like him scaling to Spiderman consider he effortlessly stopped the Winter Soldiers punch with no diff and they seem to be going for that "He is inexperienced" so that's why he lost to Cap.

That's my take on it but if others agree with scaling them to Spiderman I'm ok with it.
 
Well, Marvel has never been very interested in logically accurate matchups going by the relative character power levels, which makes scaling far more difficult for us.
 
@Spinosaurs75DinosaurFan

I'm taking a look at the thread like you asked.

It should be noted that Luke Cage was still recovering from being drugged from the stick, however, it would, at the very minimum, be Wall Level, as she's able to send Daredevil flying back with a punch. The Defenders - Daredevil VS Elektra Scene (HD) Hallway Fight Scene - YouTube.

Upgrading a character like Captain America wouldn't be to bad, he's only 74 kg of tnt from from Room/Small Building already, it's not like it'd be out of the character. Now, reguarding the evidence :

. The tug of war session would make him comparable to those tiers, however it should be noted that Cap had more support by the way he's positioned, but this would make very little difference when tugging with a car.

. Cap winning in the tug of war was due to taking him off guard, he also had a much better hold on the line.

. To be fair, Spiderman was swining through the air, so it's more the centripetal force from his swing that he overpowered.

It should still put Captain America at Room/Small Building Level.

I will watch more of the movie to support your evidence, especially the Bucky being possessed thing, as it think when he fought serious, he somewhat matched Iron Man with his mechanical arm, who is shown to be superior to Spiderman on multiple occasions.

EDIT : Both 8 and 29 seconds in 29 seconds in . Also, his mechanical arm is stronger than his normal one, which is super soldier level, so scaling Cap from that is a bit iffy, plus, Cap mostly used his shield to hurt him.
 
I don't know if him having killer intent would allow him to match Spiderman but that's my thoughts.

If Cap isn't that far from Small Building Level then it seems fine.
 
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