Mcu 6-a and speed rough draft

[Z's_Universe]

Again, you're taking a result needed to generate a singular explosion that covers the East Coast vs induvial explosions covering the same area. A single 1 megaton nuke has a 50% fatality zone in a 8 kilometer area and they have hundreds to thousands of those weapons. You're also massively inflating the number by treating it as a circle rather than a ellipse .

This is a 50% fatality zone you're referring too, which likely refers to the resulting air pressure right? 400 of those bombs would not lierally destroy that whole area, a lot of it, again yes. But not all of it.

Yes, exactly. The bombs were going to destroy singular cities and they had hundreds to thousands of them. Its not a Tier 6 showing. Its a bunch of Tier 7 weapons being detonated over the eastern United States by a supersonic bomber plane. It supports their current ratings, not a High 6-B one.

Like I said in my last post, that statement was from WWII, on top of that, it was before S.H.I.E.L.D got involved, who has access to much more advanced weaponry than during that time period. Also like I said, a supersonic bomber would not cover that distance in an hour long timeframe.

This is going nowhere, like before, you're not changing my mind, I'm not changing yours. Maybe someone else can discuss this with you, I'm done.

I will however leave you with this, the calc I keep bringing up for the nukes (which now that I think about it could've been mentioned earlier, since this was Ultrons canon plan. Only difference being that well, it actually worked.) Again like I said, I don't really think it's usable, however it is supporting evidence in a way so i though I'd mention it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

. Also like I said, a supersonic bomber would not cover that distance in an hour long timeframe.

• 1285.946325 * 2 =2,571.89265 kilometers
• 2,571.89265 / 1234.8 kph = Mach 2.0828

Considering the bombs are piloted, its a rather achievable timeframe. Though I do admit it would imply that the plane of that size is moving very fast, but that's also not super unreasonable considering some of HYDRA's other gear.

who has access to much more advanced weaponry than during that time period.

I agree that SHIELD has stronger weapons, I just don't think that means its supporting evidence for Tier 6. Just their current 7-A ratings. Thor already is casually above weapons that are rated nearly as strong as the Tsar, so its not that wild.

 

[Revan_Laha]

The energy from Wanda that laced the Stark drone sent inside Westview was capable of powering a new Vision equal to the old Vision

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

sorry how is this going, what are the feats?

 

[AbaddonTheDisappointment]

sorry how is this going, what are the feats?

Literally nothing has changed from what I can tell

 

[Vizer04]

Bump?

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Bump

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

By the way, don't we have the 71 Gigaton feat????

The main reason we rejected it was due to the "outlier" since it was above the IG feat, but besides that, it is perfectly usable

Although, the MCU cannot be anything above 6-B, Surtur got blasted to bits by a 6-B explosion

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

By the way, don't we have the 71 Gigaton feat????

The main reason we rejected it was due to the "outlier" since it was above the IG feat, but besides that, it is perfectly usable

Although, the MCU cannot be anything above 6-B, Surtur got blasted to bits by a 6-B explosion

What 71 gigaton feat?

 

[Z's_Universe]

By the way, don't we have the 71 Gigaton feat????

The main reason we rejected it was due to the "outlier" since it was above the IG feat, but besides that, it is perfectly usable

Although, the MCU cannot be anything above 6-B, Surtur got blasted to bits by a 6-B explosion

Idk what 71 gigaton feat there is but, as for Surtur. This feat is just kind of an outlier, weaker characters survive stronger attacks. On top of this, Surtur mentions he can't die until he has completed Ragnarok, implying that his death is more due to the cycle of Ragnarok rather than the actual Potency of the blast. There's also the possibility that the 6-B calc is just, well wrong. Truth be told we have literally zero clue how big Asgard ACTUALLY is. Nor do we know it's density or any other factor that would effect it. So to me the feat is just incalculable

 

[KLOL506]

Idk what 71 gigaton feat there is but, as for Surtur. This feat is just kind of an outlier, weaker characters survive stronger attacks. On top of this, Surtur mentions he can't die until he has completed Ragnarok, implying that his death is more due to the cycle of Ragnarok rather than the actual Potency of the blast. There's also the possibility that the 6-B calc is just, well wrong. Truth be told we have literally zero clue how big Asgard ACTUALLY is. Nor do we know it's density or any other factor that would effect it. So to me the feat is just incalculable

Surtur's self-boom is 6-B, teraton range.

 

[Z's_Universe]

Surtur's self-boom is 6-B, teraton range.

Uh, I know. That's what my post was about.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

What 71 gigaton feat?

Iron Man survives a meteor

 

[Z's_Universe]

Iron Man survives a meteor

Ah that one, I remember now. It seems like the issue was whether or not he was using the space stone for the feat. Imo it's pretty obvious he isn't, maybe he moved them closer but the throwing motion he does implies he's using telekinesis to move them rather than portal creation. But tbh, I'd rather not open that can of worms again, it's maddening.

 

[The_one_you_least_expect]

Ah that one, I remember now. It seems like the issue was whether or not he was using the space stone for the feat. Imo it's pretty obvious he isn't, maybe he moved them closer but the throwing motion he does implies he's using telekinesis to move them rather than portal creation. But tbh, I'd rather not open that can of worms again, it's maddening.

I mean I’m pretty sure it was stated he just moved them at high speeds

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Ah that one, I remember now. It seems like the issue was whether or not he was using the space stone for the feat. Imo it's pretty obvious he isn't, maybe he moved them closer but the throwing motion he does implies he's using telekinesis to move them rather than portal creation. But tbh, I'd rather not open that can of worms again, it's maddening.

Guys does anyone have the script for Infinity War????

 

[Qawsedf234]

Iron Man survives a meteor

The feat isn't currently used because the calc maker forget to include the surface area difference between Iron Man and the meteor, which lowers the result by a few thousand or a couple hundred thousand.

It also breaks our KE rules regarding Calced power vs shown power but that's a different issues.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The feat isn't currently used because the calc maker forget to include the surface area difference between Iron Man and the meteor, which lowers the result by a few thousand or a couple hundred thousand.

It also breaks our KE rules regarding Calced power vs shown power but that's a different issues.

I remember we had a discussion on the Surface Area stuff in the initial MCU discussion thread, and we agreed the meteor was tier 6

 

[Qawsedf234]

we agreed the meteor was tier 6

The meteor is Tier 6, the energy Iron Man was actually exposed to is Tier 7 to 8 depending on the end used.

The meteor also breaks our KE rules:

• There is a destruction/AP calculation contradicting a kinetic energy calculation. The destruction/AP calculation would take priority over the kinetic energy calculation in this case as the AP calculation would be a better proof in regards to how much damage he/she is capable of in an attack.
  • For example, if a character launches a 200kg metal ball against a common wall at Mach 300, but the wall remains largely undamaged, the energy required to cause the minor damage on the wall would take priority over the kinetic energy derived from speed in this case.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The meteor is Tier 6, the energy Iron Man was actually exposed to is Tier 7 to 8 depending on the end used.

The meteor also breaks our KE rules:

Must have worded it better, we agreed that the energy Iron Man took would be tier 6

 

[Qawsedf234]

we agreed that the energy Iron Man took would be tier 6

Then you agreed to a wrong conclusion.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Here's what DontTalkDT said in the upgrade thread

As for the meteor thing... it kinda depends IMO.
If the meteor breaks apart on impacting the character and the parts that don't hit the character aren't slowed then yes.
If the meteor hits the character and its KE is mostly cancelled out on impact then the entire meteor should scale on the other hand.

In a case where the meteor stays intact on impact and the KE doesn't visibly get cancelled out things get difficult. In that case, the surface area isn't really what matters IMO. The impact energy isn't really "missing" the character, which is the idea we usually use for inverse-square rulings. Like, in an idealized scenario where the character stands on an indestructible floor it would need to take 100% of the impact, as the parts of the meteor that don't hit the character can't fly past it without the meteor breaking apart.
With a destructible floor, things get more difficult. The impact would press the character into the earth and then the impact is split between it and the earth that gets hit. If this were real-life physics I would say calculate the energy to cause the displayed amount of destruction to the floor, subtract it from the meteors KE and the result is the difference that the character being there made. However, in fiction, we have the trouble with the AoE not reflecting power.
So that makes that difficult. Personally, I would say that by The Rules of Fiction™ the character is probably comparable to the attack's power. Similar to how we would scale a character that gets hit by an energy beam and flung out of its path without absorbing 100% of the beam to the attackers AP. Maybe err on the side of caution and downscale a character by a tier if the AP was close to baseline.
That's my take at least.

I haven't looked at al the other details, but IMO Iron Man is probably at least comparable to that one meteors KE.

Let me first say that I don't actually know this feat either.
If we do factually know that the surrounding surface area made a truly significant contribution then I suppose it shouldn't scale. And if we are talking about planets colliding them breaking apart is also something that would usually happen.
Otherwise, if the planets remain like solid unbroken balls with the character squished between them I would scale it, though.

tl;dr The rules of fiction likely imply the character is comparable to the attack's power. But if we're not cool with that, then I guess we could try to calculate the destruction the impact of the meteor caused to the planet (since we do in fact see the surrounding land shatter) and subtract that from the total KE to find what Iron Man took by conservation of energy. But honestly that would be kinda inconsequential compared to the KE of the meteor.

With that in mind, I'd honestly just keep the current 6-C rating since it makes sense as Iron Man tanked a majority, but not all, of a 6-C+ impact.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

Here's what DontTalkDT said in the upgrade thread



tl;dr The rules of fiction likely imply the character is comparable to the attack's power. But if we're not cool with that, then I guess we could try to calculate the destruction the impact of the meteor caused to the planet (since we do in fact see the surrounding land shatter) and subtract that from the total KE to find what Iron Man took by conservation of energy. But honestly that would be kinda inconsequential compared to the KE of the meteor.

With that in mind, I'd honestly just keep the current 6-C rating since it makes sense as Iron Man tanked a majority, but not all, of a 6-C+ impact.

I dunno, maybe it would get a result higher than our current values of 5.8 Gigatons

 

[Lemongifted101]

This mean MCU upgrade as Thanos crush Tesaract valid agian ?
Or just another outlier.
wow then I will celebrate

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

I dunno, maybe it would get a result higher than our current values of 5.8 Gigatons

I mean the most accurate way to calculate in my mind would probably to calculate the destruction it caused to the landmass, subtract that from the full KE, and divide by the time between Iron Man hitting it and it crashing to the ground. Although DontTalkDT's recommendation was just to scale him to the whole meteor because of rules of fiction AoE

 

[Z's_Universe]

I mean the most accurate way to calculate in my mind would probably to calculate the destruction it caused to the landmass, subtract that from the full KE, and divide by the time between Iron Man hitting it and it crashing to the ground. Although DontTalkDT's recommendation was just to scale him to the whole meteor because of rules of fiction AoE

I would go with what DontTalkDT said. We can't just act like the people in charge of these movies were thinking this much about it. They said "oh hey let's have Iron man get hit by a Meteor that sounds cool." And poof, here we are.

When someone survives a planet Bust, the people in charge aren't thinking "oh well, they would actually only be country level because if aoe, so we need to account for that" they're thinking "how do we show this character can survive planetary destruction. How about by having them survive planetary destruction?" I think alot of people in this community just overthink these types of things.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

The issue that it is significantly higher than the Infinity Gauntlet output which permanently injured Thanos and Hulk though.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

The issue that it is significantly higher than the Infinity Gauntlet output which permanently injured Thanos and Hulk though.

I think there are 2 things though, the first is that the numerical value for the snap was still rising, so it could be higher than what we know it is (5.8 gigaton), the second was that Thanos was already badly wounded when he snapped the first time, the second time, it was stronger by an unquantifiable amount.

 

[Z's_Universe]

The issue that it is significantly higher than the Infinity Gauntlet output which permanently injured Thanos and Hulk though.

tl:dr,

the number on screen was still going up when it was stopped,

it's only scanning the earth at the time, not any other planet effected.

It's considered a display greater than anything else seen, yet isn't even 6 gigatons, meanwhile Rocket can make a Moon Busting weapon with ease.

And finally, it's a number from the Russo Brothers, who have shown that they really don't know how to display the strength of the character (like showing Caps strikes in CW at 200,000 newtons.)

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

The issue that it is significantly higher than the Infinity Gauntlet output which permanently injured Thanos and Hulk though.

We don't scale Hulk to 6-C anymore. And Thanos tanked the 5.6 gigaton feat for the most part. It was only the second snap, which was unquantifiable, that actually ****** him up.

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Huh. Professor Hulk's feat of tanking the Gauntlet is still valid though, no? He should still be at most 6-C or something like that. I guess that would support the other characters being stronger if even he's at most 6-C.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Huh. Professor Hulk's feat of tanking the Gauntlet is still valid though, no? He should still be at most 6-C or something like that. I guess that would support the other characters being stronger if even he's at most 6-C.

It's taken as more resistance to radiation iirc.

 

[I'm_Blue_daba_dee_daba_die]

It's taken as more resistance to radiation iirc.

Yeah, only reason he tanked it was because he resisted radiation, someone like Thor would have died

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

Ah yes I forgot about that. Not a big fan of the Hulk downgrade but I guess he's just kinda inconsistent to be fair. That's for another time though.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

At best, I could see At most High 7-A+ for professor Hulk via massive downscaling, but I dunno.

 

[KLOL506]

Ah yes I forgot about that. Not a big fan of the Hulk downgrade but I guess he's just kinda inconsistent to be fair. That's for another time though.

Hulk temporarily lost his entire right arm to the snap tho, no? Also apparently the Gauntlet not being made of something tough like Uru also played a factor, but Thanos overall managed to withstand the power of the stones way better than Hulk, as if he was unaffected, since he never got to snap in Endgame's final battle.

 

[Z's_Universe]

Ah yes I forgot about that. Not a big fan of the Hulk downgrade but I guess he's just kinda inconsistent to be fair. That's for another time though.

Honestly, though it hasn't yet been confirmed. I think his inconsistency comes from his rage boosts. Throughout all the films we see moments where hulk gets beaten down (Thor in Ragnarok, Hulkbuster in AoU, and kinda Thor in A1) then there's a moment where he brushes off an attack, and starts beating down his opponent (Grabs Thors punch with one arm, "I'm sorry", etc.). Honestly I would say he should be "whatever tier", up to "whatever tier" with rage boost. But again this hasn't been confirmed.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Hulk isn't really that inconsistent tbh. I'd say he should a higher with rage tho

 

[Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan]

It's made pretty clear than Thanos is stronger than Hulk. I just think people over exaggerate how badly he got beat in Infinity War. You can only "take someone by surprise" for so long and Thanos clearly wasn't just casually stomping him. He's not magnitudes weaker is what I mean, although that's not the strongest argument considering Vader doesn't seem to magnitudes weaker than Palpatine either.

Thor: Ragnarok power levels is the most confusing and is the cause of most of the inconsistency tbf. In that fight with Hulk, they are about equal for a while, Thor gets serious and seems to be winning due to superior skill, Thor tries to talk with him again and gets smashed by Hulk pretty damn badly which now seems like Hulk is stronger as he could deal pretty serious damage. Then Thor gets Odin vision and powers up.

It seems that Thor is only powered up when he's in Raiden mode, but then he's still not powerful enough to one-shot Hulk as Hulk tanked several of his lightning blasts. It seems unlikely for Thor to still be holding back at that point considering it was more of a reflex blast rather than a controlled one. Hulk does get back up pretty easily and still has the strength to jump and knock out Thor after the Grandmaster cheated.

Then Thor loses his Raiden mode, then he goes fight Hela and matches him? So is he 6-C without his Raiden mode or not? I guess you could say he had Gungnir so he has Odin's power, but Thor fought Loki with Gungnir too. I guess you could explain it away by saying Gungnir amplifies your powers so Loki < Thor < Odin? But it's pretty clear his first Raiden mode wasn't permanent, if not why would have to see visions of Odin again and get that Raiden mode once more? After he gets his Raiden mode though he still can't beat Hela, which I suppose you can explain by saying Hela is getting stronger by every second.

Unless you treat the two times Thor gets the Raiden mode as powering up twice?

Then Infinity War they just ditched the whole Raiden mode thing. Thor gets beaten up by Thanos, is he 7-A or 6-C at that point? Then he tanks the star, without the Raiden mode. Then after that Thor gets Stormbreaker and becomes surely 6-C.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

Thor gets beaten up by Thanos, is he 7-A or 6-C at that point? Then he tanks the star, without the Raiden mode. Then after that Thor gets Stormbreaker and becomes surely 6-C.

He's 6-C. There are 2 6-C values that the the 6-Cs scale to. Thanos' 5.6 gigaton tanking and Thor breaking the bifrost bridge in a single hit, which is like 4.4 gigatons iirc

Then after that Thor gets Stormbreaker and becomes surely 6-C.

The stormbreaker is much stronger than Thor himself. Fat Thor, the strongest version of Thor thus far, was overpowered by Thanos

It seems that Thor is only powered up when he's in Raiden mode, but then he's still not powerful enough to one-shot Hulk as Hulk tanked several of his lightning blasts. It seems unlikely for Thor to still be holding back at that point considering it was more of a reflex blast rather than a controlled one. Hulk does get back up pretty easily and still has the strength to jump and knock out Thor after the Grandmaster cheated.

Thor was only barely tapping into his full awakened powers, so obviously he isn't full on 6-C yet, but strong enough to stomp characters like Hulk

I think you're confusing the scaling a bit, it's supposedly:

Hulk (7-A) = Pre woke Thor < Angry Hulk << Not fully awakened Thor

Awakened Thor in the final battle of Ragnarok (6-C or 4.4 Gigatons) < Fat Thor <= Thanos (5.6 Gigatons) <= Mjolnir's durability < Hela