Mastered Ultra Instinct Goku vs. Heimdall (Dragon Ball vs. God of War)

[Quantu]

Precognition + time space manip

How does his space-time manipulation work? Precog would be a problem

 

[chosen]

How does his space-time manipulation work? Precog would be a problem

He shifts time space on a uni+ level so Your movements are slowed to the Point even relative enemies are slow to you

 

[Quantu]

Well then Goku can't do anything against that considering he won't have time to evolve then if he's literally slow motion to him + precognition makes this seem like a stomp.

 

[Lacku]

Well then Goku can't do anything against that considering he won't have time to evolve then if he's literally slow motion to him + precognition makes this seem like a stomp.

The time slow isn't permanent and only lasts a few seconds so Hemidalls hax despite being his best advantage don't make the matchup a stomp. Something that I think is being ignored though is in-game you can still dodge and parry Heimdall even when slowed down you just have to anticipate it more, which I don't see why Goku, especially in MUI, wouldn't do.

 

[chosen]

The time slow isn't permanent and only lasts a few seconds so Hemidalls hax despite being his best advantage don't make the matchup a stomp. Something that I think is being ignored though is in-game you can still dodge and parry Heimdall even when slowed down you just have to anticipate it more, which I don't see why Goku, especially in MUI, wouldn't do.

I mean kratos actually can counter heimdall precog unlike goku here

 

[Quantu]

It only lasts a few seconds? Hmm. I don't see any offensive hax on his profile that would let him kill Goku during those seconds. Remember, Half 2-C AP means the same for durability. Goku would basically be an unbreakable wall to him.

 

[Lacku]

I mean kratos actually can counter heimdall precog unlike goku here

Why not? Is it because Kratos is faster than Heimdall anyways so his time slow doesn't stop Kratos from dodging or?

 

[chosen]

Why not? Is it because Kratos is faster than Heimdall anyways so his time slow doesn't stop Kratos from dodging or?

No kratos deadass counters heimdall precog (albeit Only later on in the fight)

 

[chosen]

It only lasts a few seconds? Hmm. I don't see any offensive hax on his profile that would let him kill Goku during those seconds. Remember, Half 2-C AP means the same for durability. Goku would basically be an unbreakable wall to him.

Mui Goku lasts less than 2 mins he can just outlast and murder Goku

 

[Lacku]

No kratos deadass counters heimdall precog (albeit Only later on in the fight)

Fr? I thought he just got Hemidall so angry that he started getting sloppy.

 

[chosen]

Fr? I thought he just got Hemidall so angry that he started getting sloppy.

Heimdall struggled to read kratos mind at the end of r2
Also remember there are Thing he couldn't predict like spear boom

 

[Quantu]

If his wincon is just outlasting then I'm going to vote for incon.

• Goku can kill him by literally breathing too hard due to the AP gap. I also don't see how he can counter AoE blasts or air shot spam
• Goku is basically invincible in those 2 MUI minutes due to Heimdall's lack of offensive hax
• Heimdall's time stuff only lasts for seconds
• However, Heimdall can "see the future" so he possibly should be able to see Goku getting exhausted

 

[Lacku]

Heimdall struggled to read kratos mind at the end of r2
Also remember there are Thing he couldn't predict like spear boom

Man I need to finish Ragnarok so that I can see all the upgrades and new resistances Kratos is going to get cause I guess he does resist that stuff

 

[Lacku]

If his wincon is just outlasting then I'm going to vote for incon.

• Goku can kill him by literally breathing too hard due to the AP gap. I also don't see how he can counter AoE blasts or air shot spam
• Goku is basically invincible in those 2 MUI minutes due to Heimdall's lack of offensive hax
• Heimdall's time stuff only lasts for seconds
• However, Heimdall can "see the future" so he possibly should be able to see Goku getting exhausted

Something else to note is I think Gokus fighting intelligence is being ignored a bit here, if Heimdall used his time slow on him so many times eventually he would try to combat it somehow.

 

[Lacku]

If his wincon is just outlasting then I'm going to vote for incon.

Your vote is also counted btw

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

I thought there is no such thing as "Half 2-C" anymore? I thought low 2-C just goes on infinitely until you have a 2-C feat?

And This is going to be a stomp soon when all the other tiers get removed from Heimdall's page.


But anyway Heimdall FRA

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Heimdall FRA

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Arrogant God FRA

 

[Diamentus]

Are you still voting for Heimdall? I changed Gokus key to MUI

Yep, still voting for Heimdall. Goku can have an AP advantage, sure, but I really doubt that Goku would be able to see him, with his power of foresight and all. The speed is equalised too, so Goku can't even overwhelm him like Kratos did.

 

[Planck69]

And goddamn is that "half 2-C" AP that DB supporters espout the dumbest thing that's come to this site.

 

[CRYING_POTATO_55]

isn't half 2c just baseline 2c divided by two so goku would just downscale from the baseline but still be 2c

 

[Planck69]

You can't get to 2-C via multipliers since the gap between it and Low 2-C is unknowable so being half of that value is an unknown level of Low 2-C. But of course, it's been used in the sense of, for whatever reason, being far superior to any level of Low 2-C, often to the exclusion of all common sense.

 

[Diamentus]

And goddamn is that "half 2-C" AP that DB supporters espout the dumbest thing that's come to this site.

I don't know where it came from. It's nowhere on his page.

 

[KLOL506]

Fr? I thought he just got Hemidall so angry that he started getting sloppy.

No. That's not how the fight ended. Heimdall didn't get sloppy, he lives and breathes for challenges and battles. Kratos deadass adapted and evolved against Heimdall's precog partly thanks to the Spear he had, and eventually, Heimdall straight up could not even read Kratos's mind, calling it empty.

 

[Planck69]

I don't know where it came from. It's nowhere on his page.

He scales to Beerus who contributed half of the energy needed to perform a 2-C feat.

 

[Diamentus]

No. That's not how the fight ended. Heimdall didn't get sloppy, he lives and breathes for challenges and battles. Kratos deadass adapted and evolved against Heimdall's precog partly thanks to the Spear he had, and eventually, Heimdall straight up could not even read Kratos's mind, calling it empty.

I thought Heimdall calling his mind "empty" was purely just an insult.

 

[KLOL506]

I thought Heimdall calling his mind "empty" was purely just an insult.

Nope, it wasn't. It legit was Heimdall having trouble grasping what exactly Kratos was thinking about doing to him (Sparing him, obviously).

 

[Diamentus]

He scales to Beerus who contributed half of the energy needed to perform a 2-C feat.

It still makes 0 sense. For one, if you contribute 1/2 needed to perform a 2-C feat, you're literally never gonna get 2-C. Because, 1/2 x 2 is 3/4 and so on and so forth.

 

[Diamentus]

Nope, it wasn't. It legit was Heimdall having trouble grasping what exactly Kratos was thinking about doing to him (Sparing him, obviously).

Ah, alright. And that was the effects of the spear, or Kratos simply adapting? (since he does have reactive evolution on his page)

 

[chosen]

He scales to Beerus who contributed half of the energy needed to perform a 2-C feat.

Tbh if we go by "half of destroying 2 universes = low 2c logic' wouldn't Beerus technically be 1 universe? Maybe i am wrong idk

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Ah, alright. And that was the effects of the spear, or Kratos simply adapting? (since he does have reactive evolution on his page)

Adapting
or
another interpretation is Kratos literally empitied his head and had some next level IR, which doesn't even have intent on it.
Which would in this case be busted skill feat.

 

[Planck69]

Tbh if we go by "half of destroying 2 universes = low 2c logic' wouldn't Beerus technically be 1 universe? Maybe i am wrong idk

There's still a distance across higher-dimensional space that has to be covered by the explosion that'd destroy both universes, which would require far more energy that just two times the energy needed to destroy one space-time continuum.

 

[Diamentus]

Adapting
or
another interpretation is Kratos literally empitied his head and had some next level IR, which doesn't even have intent on it.
Which would in this case be busted skill feat.

Kratos has been seen to attack without even using his brain (instinctive action) so that interpretation isn't 100% impossible.

 

[chosen]

There's still a distance across higher-dimensional space that has to be covered by the explosion that'd destroy both universes, which would require far more energy that just two times the energy needed to destroy one space-time continuum.

Oh yeah that true

 

[KLOL506]

Ah, alright. And that was the effects of the spear, or Kratos simply adapting? (since he does have reactive evolution on his page)

The "empty head" part is blatant resistance to Telepathy, the RE part applies to the precog.

Kratos has been seen to attack without even using his brain (instinctive action) so that interpretation isn't 100% impossible.

Apparently from what I dug up, one of the interview stated that Kratos was actually thinking hard about not giving in to his temptation to kill Heimdall right then and there. I lost the link tho. Wouldn't matter either way, blatant resistance is showcased here. Not the first time either. Amulet of Uroboros and Atreus come to mind here.

 

[Diamentus]

The "empty head" part is blatant resistance to Telepathy, the RE part applies to the precog.

Ah, alright.

Apparently from what I dug up, one of the interview stated that Kratos was actually thinking hard about not giving in to his temptation to kill Heimdall right then and there. I lost the link tho. Wouldn't matter either way, blatant resistance is showcased here. Not the first time either. Amulet of Uroboros and Atreus come to mind here.

Oh really? That's kind of interesting.

 

[GilverTheProtoAngelo]

Amulet of Ouroborus has both busted time hax and clairvoyance which reveals weaknesses.
Which Kratos negged

 

[Random-Helper323]

And goddamn is that "half 2-C" AP that DB supporters espout the dumbest thing that's come to this site.

Yeah, I don't fully understand either. What's half of higher dimensional, or half of beyond infinite? Is it that Goku is half as strong as a guy whose peak is just enough to do a 2-C feat? And how does Goku stack up overall given that his exact power level rises and falls almost constantly while he fights? It sounds nonsensical to me.

On that note, can Goku seal Heimdall?

Comparing Goku to Kratos here against Heimdall's precognition isn't just a matter of speed though. Kratos has to have had at least some form of resistance to the precognition, since Heimdall couldn't anticipate his actions anymore. Arguably Goku has no win-con, since he has no way to land a killing blow against Heimdall's cheap dodging tricks.

 

[Planck69]

Yeah, I don't fully understand either. What's half of higher dimensional, or half of beyond infinite? Is it that Goku is half as strong as a guy whose peak is just enough to do a 2-C feat? And how does Goku stack up overall given that his exact power level rises and falls almost constantly while he fights? It sounds nonsensical to me.

It's not even beyond infinite. It's just unknowable. He's an unknowable amount of times baseline Low 2-C.

On that note, can Goku seal Heimdall?

Isn't that horribly OoC? And how would he do that in like 2 minutes?

Comparing Goku to Kratos here against Heimdall's precognition isn't just a matter of speed though. Kratos has to have had at least some form of resistance to the precognition, since Heimdall couldn't anticipate his actions anymore. Arguably Goku has no win-con, since he has no way to land a killing blow against Heimdall's cheap dodging tricks.

He could graze him with AoE I guess? Only thing I can think of.

 

[Diamentus]

Yeah, I don't fully understand either. What's half of higher dimensional, or half of beyond infinite? Is it that Goku is half as strong as a guy whose peak is just enough to do a 2-C feat? And how does Goku stack up overall given that his exact power level rises and falls almost constantly while he fights? It sounds nonsensical to me.

On that note, can Goku seal Heimdall?

Comparing Goku to Kratos here against Heimdall's precognition isn't just a matter of speed though. Kratos has to have had at least some form of resistance to the precognition, since Heimdall couldn't anticipate his actions anymore. Arguably Goku has no win-con, since he has no way to land a killing blow against Heimdall's cheap dodging tricks.

Kratos gained a resistance due to RE, which Goku doesn't seem to have, so yeah Goku wouldn't be able to stop his precog in any-way.