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Massive Persona Almost-Verse-Wide Revisions

In the end, whether or not SMT and Persona can be scaled to eachother should be handled by people a bit more knowledgeable than us on both of the series. It's a topic for a later date. and please make it a far later date I've had enough of editing the profiles for a century
 
Why does Izanami scale from Yaldabaoth (Persona 5)?

Also, which staff members actually accepted these changes? You are not allowed to apply major revisions without conclusive staff approval.
 
Dragonmasterxyz approved of them, yes. The only other staff member I'm aware of who is knowledgeable on the Persona verse is Sera, who we can't contact right now for obvious reasons.

Also, my apologies about the Erebus page. That was my editing. It's quite late here, and I was rushing since there was almost 20+ profiles to go through. I intended to look over everything I edited afterwards to check if I had made any major mistakes. I didn't intend to leave you to clean it up, my bad.
 
Okay, but I think that only Yaldabaoth (Persona 5) was mentioned, so the scaling chain is not obvious to a visitor to our profiles.
 
We'll try and get that fixed up. I'll be more careful with any editing this time, don't worry.
 
Alright then, now to get to creating all of the unmade profiles.

I suppose we should take a fairly sizable break to rest and recover. In other words, Grath, get some sleep. You too, Solacis.
 
Alright. I'll see what details on the scaling chain need to be fixed up in the morning.
 
In regards to the scaling chains, since they all scale off of either Elizabeth or Lavenza, on the profiles it should be noted something like this, using Yu Narukami as an example: "Low 2-C (fought evenly with members of the Shadow Operatives, who are comparable to P3 Elizabeth)"
 
Thank you. Several of the profiles have needed cleanup work from me already, so I would appreciate help with cleaning up the previous edits and if you not make similar mistakes in the future.
 
No, please, don't defend me. I am quite exhausted here, but I still should have been far more careful when editing the profiles. People get banned for less. I'll make absolute sure I'm more careful in the future.

With that said though, I'm currently on the verge of collapsing. I'm definitely not going to be any more good help tonight. I'll see what I can do to help out in the morning.
 
Okay. Goodnight.
 
Just to check, Persona Q is canon, right? It doesn't really change anything, but it might be more supporting stuff.
 
I will unsubscribe to this thread. You can send me a message later if you need my help.
 
Out of curiosity why is Nyx notes as being stronger than Yaldabaoth in its profile? I don't believe that's really supported since they never interact.
 
Nyx created the entire collective unconsciousness on accident by crashing into the earth and leaving tiny fragments of herself on the planet while she became the moon. Those tiny fragments forced life to evolve the collective unconsciousnees as a defense mechanism.

Everything that falls under the CU, including Yaldy, is below Nyx, because only fragments of Nyx forced the creation of the CU.
 
I'd like to mention that if we go off what Philemon said, every soul has the potential to create their own reality. should be supporting-ish evidence, I suppose
 
That's... way to vague and poetic sounding to be taken seriously. We can't know if he was being literal or just metaphoric. Even if he is being completely serious, it's too poetic and flowery to be considered hard evidence.

But I've never played P1 and P2 so I wouldn't know the context.
 
KnightOfSunlight said:
That's... way to vague and poetic sounding to be taken seriously. We can't know if he was being literal or just metaphoric. Even if he is being completely serious, it's too poetic and flowery to be considered hard evidence.
But I've never played P1 and P2 so I wouldn't know the context.
Click to expand...
My persona 2 expert friend says that each soul is its own universe, but i have no idea what the veracity othat is.
 
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but that only explains where the collective unconscious came from. Sure it shows that Nyx made the thing that gave birth to Yaldabaoth, but that doesn't Explain why it's stronger, when Yaldabaoth already had enough power to control both the unconscious world and physical world as just the Holy Grail, which is far below his stare as God of Control.

If anything, Yaldabaoth is more impressive considering he casually controls twice that of Nyx's creation.
 
Remember the important part, mere fragments of Nyx cause the creation of everything that Yaldabaoth uses to base his powers in by existing on the earth. Makoto Yuki, who should be slightly above Joker, couldn't even flinch Nyx's true form.

Yaldabaoth may have fused two universes, but mere parts of Nyx created one of those universes. Her full power is easily drastically above that.
 
Mind you, I'm not saying Yaldabaoth is stronger than Nyx for sure, I'm just saying that the specific line saying Nyx is absolutely superior should be removed, as it's pretty uncertain which boss is the strongest for sure.
 
It really isn't.

Nyx unintentionally created the collective unconsciousness. Yaldabaoth was created by and used the collective unconsciousness, and eventually could fuse it with the real world.
 
Fair enough, but again, that isn't Yaldabaoth's full power either, he performed that feat casually in a far lesser form, that is massively below his power as God of Control, which is again below that of him going all out.

All I'm saying is that "who is stronger" isn't a sure thing, (even if Nyx is likely stronger)
 
Again, it really isn't primarily because of the fragments fact.

A form of Yaldabaoth performed a feat that was superior to tiny pieces of Nyx. One of these pieces granted another Low 2-C infinite stamina.

Nyx is vastly above everything in Persona because she is responsible for everything in Persona ever coming about. Because she left tiny pieces of herself on earth.
 
Yes Nyx made the collective unconscious that yaldabaoth came from and uses, but that isn't enough to say she is stronger for certain. Chakravatin for instance, made Asura and the very power he uses, but was overpowered in the end.
 
Okay. Dude, she didn't make it. Fragments of her did.

Not her. Not her body. Not anything she actually tried to do. Tiny pieces of Nyx did.

By merely existing, mind you.
 
Also btw, just in case it isn't clear, I'm just saying it should be removed from Nyx's summary, if you want to note down a comparison of "power levels" that should really go into the attack potency area.
 
Look, I'm not disagreeing Nyx is likely stronger, my issue is the fact it's written in the character's summary, which is meant to note down things that are (at the time) explained from the story itself.

Even if Nyx performed 1/2 the feat of Yaldabaoth's own far more casually than Yaldabaoth himself, it isn't enough for it to categorically known, therefore it should go into ap/tier justification.
 
Btw trying to debate on a wiki platform is a lot harder, I keep seeing your responses after I make my next comment
 
KnightOfSunlight said:
That's... way to vague and poetic sounding to be taken seriously. We can't know if he was being literal or just metaphoric. Even if he is being completely serious, it's too poetic and flowery to be considered hard evidence.
But I've never played P1 and P2 so I wouldn't know the context.
Click to expand...
It's not that metaphoric, Philemon also stated that their inner strength possessed the same power that created the universe

and there is context behind this

Spoiler alert: when Maya died, the cast asked themselves if they could do anything to reverse that, and Philemon said that could create a new timeline if they forget about eachother, it was also in this scene that he said those things about the soul and will power, so it really was just an explanation, not flowery language
 
MagiSinbad said:
Need to note that Elizabeth's tier justification is just vague
(Caroline and Justine, who can challenge a very late game Ren Amamiya, are scared of being scolded by her and Margaret)
Click to expand...
I agree. I'd argue thats simple sibling dynamic and not anything indicative of power. It become problematic when you include Theodore. As far as I know FemC=P3MC, so that would imply that Theodore is on par with Elizabeth dispite his treatment (like in the Q games for example). A characters personality =/= power level

There definatly is a certian degree of tiering, but nothing substantial imo. I would say they are more or less equal in terms of tiering other characters. Boxer 1 may always defeat Boxer 2, but unless we see the fight and victory terms, we can more reasonably prove that Boxer 1 is more skilled. Especially when most other evidence has them relativly equal in feats (base game).
 
That being said, I don't see any problems with Elizabeths profile in terms of her raw stats even with my justification. They are rated equally unless I missed something.
 
I can't comment much, but Persona should be treated akin to Senshinkan, everything is basically a mental attack.

For quick reference, think about Akechi killing people's shadows and triggering mental shutdowns and psychotic breakdowns.
 
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