Massive Dark Souls Downgrades 3

[Sir_Ovens]

I mean it all depends on whether or not other stars and planets exist or if the DS world takes place in it's own contained space.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Other planets exist. The Dark Souls setting is at the very least a solar system.

See the proof here

 

[Lightbuster30]

Other planets exist. The Dark Souls setting is at the very least a solar system.

See the proof here

Nah. Those are cleary depicting other planets and Solar Systems. (I'm mocking a word for word argument)

 

[Konaguna]

Other planets exist. The Dark Souls setting is at the very least a solar system.

See the proof here

Huh? Those globes prove nothing, you're simply using the Hasty Generalization fallacy to connect everything the way you see it fit.

Besides no one asked for the size of the setting.

I already Proved that the existence of era of Fire is just an illusion, this said by Aldia who melted himself with the fire.

 

[Konaguna]

Also Keewed stop.

Manus is not 4-C, he can be beaten way before any other lord and if that were it, his soul alone could compensate for the lord vessel.

And please stop being an ignorant liar. I already posted the scan above which directly states that Abyss watchers used Artorias stenght to become lords, that was their source. That doesn't make Artorias stronger, it means the verse is weaker which actually keeps up with its consistency ƒñÀƒÅ╗ÔÇìÔÖé´©Å

 

[Overlord775]

They abyss watcher just uses the wolf blood to link their souls togheter, not to massivally boost themselfs

 

[Konaguna]

Ahaha, I knew someone would try to make this claim. Again, FALSE

it's the dame way with Gael, he drank the boood of the pygmies to get the dark soul. Same thing with Abyss watchers, they indulged in his blood just as Gael did to become more poweful

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Those Armillary Spheres prove that Dark Souls is set in a solar system where multiple planets orbit around the same star.

The Lunar Eclipse at the CG Trailer for Dark Souls 2 also supports a heliocentric system with a round planet orbiting around a sun (Lunar Eclipses only happen because the light of the sun is blocked by the round shape of the Earth which hides the moon).

 

[Lightbuster30]

Manus is not 4-C, he can be beaten way before any other lord and if that were it, his soul alone could compensate for the lord vessel.

Well unless we want to ignore the fact that his smallest fragment can fight against an end game BotC, then yeah sure, he totally isn't.

 

[Konaguna]

Huh? Scans of anyone in the series being capable of presenting the cosmos of the verse? Scans of tools required to mark it out?

Also, Since when have trailers been Canon? A lot of things are usual presented within trailers but never make it into the game.

 

[Konaguna]

Well unless we want to ignore the fact that his smallest fragment can fight against the BotC, then yeah sure, he totally isn't.

This just furtherly proves my point lmao

 

[Lightbuster30]

Imao being the key word here.

 

[Konaguna]

Imao being the key word here.

Don't believe me? So you're saying someone who isn't even tier 4 should have his smallest fragment also at tier 4 because it makes more sense tiering wise? And even if Manus was tier 4 that still doesn't make Nash tier 4 Lmfao, she's a lot weaker than him bruh.

 

[Lightbuster30]

Erm no? His smallest fragment is tier 4 because she is a threat to someone who is, by that point is also tier 4. And early game Chisen Undead fighting Manus? That is textbook game mechanics.

 

[Konaguna]

Erm no? His smallest fragment is tier 4 because she is a threat to someone who is, by that point is also tier 4. And early game Chisen Undead fighting Manus? That is textbook game mechanics.

Or maybe she is not tier 4 because you fail to acknowledge any other possible interpretation than the highest one. Nash is not tier 4, Manus is not tier 4 and now suddenly his weakest piece of his soul is? Yeah I call bs on that.

Even if Manus was tier 4 for some reason Nash isn't, because she Ian way weaker than him. This just furtherly proves that tier 4 is iffy, but you'd rather just put them all at the highest scale any ignore any other possibility huh?

 

[Konaguna]

Yoi ain't even read this post didya?

 

[Paul_Frank]

Since all the tiny fragments of manus are tier 4 because they can fight end game botc that logically means Manus is above 4-C via even tiny fragments of him being 4-C so

 

[Lightbuster30]

So your argument is that I'm cherrypicking? Not the first time people have attempted calling me out on it. Because by all logical accounts, and endgame boss posing a serious threat to an endgame character means said boss doesn't somehow scale to the characters tier? How does that logic even function? Apparently if I pose a threat to a guy who is Star level, I'm somehow not Star level. Who knew?

Manus is tier 4 scaling to Nash, who scales to the BotC. Not vice versa. Oh look more failed attempts at calling me out for cherrypicking.

 

[Konaguna]

Uhhh, you do realize it's for that very reason that she isn't that strong? Because not only is Manus not tier 4 who spawned her, she's also much weaker than him because she's only a small part of his soul.

Chyea guess you're also saying that Wolnir, Pontiff, Ancient Wyvern and NK are now tier 4? 3 of those bosses are some completely random featless characters chyea.

Guess Every post Anor Londo boss is now also as strong or stronger than your average lord of cinder? Since you can beat Manus after that who by your logic is way above star level.

Tier 4 Fire Demon, tier 4 centipede, tier 4 seath, Nito and bed of chaos who have no reason to en that high.

You're simply refusing to believe that they're weaker because of Your pride, chyea

And again you've completely ignored my post, good job bruh ƒæìƒÅ╝

 

[Lightbuster30]

Others have already explained why Manus by himself should be Tier 4, without Nash. Nito, Seath, and BoC perfectly scale to tier 4. They should anyways, and I've already said why. Everything else is false equivallency.

Oh goody, an Appeal to Motive Fallacy.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

ok this is litrally getting no where

no real argument has been made for the downgrade in the past 2 weeks

i think this should be closed(Plus i don't really want for this to go further into the subject of the first flame cuse that might result in tier 2 dark souls and i have a few warhammer vs ds battles i wanted to do and that would really **** it up)

 

[Paul_Frank]

Every downgrade thread so far has used the same points to try to downgrade the verse so the response stays the same generally

 

[Konaguna]

Others have already explained why Manus by himself should be Tier 4, without Nash. Nito, Seath, and BoC perfectly scale to tier 4. They should anyways, and I've already said why. Everything else is false equivallency.

Oh goody, an Appeal to Motive Fallacy.

No they haven't, they just think he should be tier 4 when he can already be beaten early on and had no feats to support that anyway.

So you're saying that severely weakened lords after hundreds of years are tier 4 even though one literally failed to do a feat that would put her at that level wen she was at her prime? Great observation genius

All you've basically done is try scaling everything to achieve the highest possible result and haven't actually proved anything, you've completely ignored all my points and now you're incapable of continuing by yourself, so you're calling everything a fallacy

Chyea good job breh

 

[Konaguna]

ok this is litrally getting no where

no real argument has been made for the downgrade in the past 2 weeks

i think this should be closed(Plus i don't really want for this to go further into the subject of the first flame cuse that might result in tier 2 dark souls and i have a few warhammer vs ds battles i wanted to do and that would really **** it up)

>No real argument has been made

"there are good points here some that i agree with but the whole gael thing is wrong" -your quote

mhmmmm Sounds like you have me for an idiot

 

[Paul_Frank]

He's not really scaling it as high as he can because if he was he'd be pushing for low 2-C

And using the excuse that you can fight manus early so he's clearly not able to be tier 4 doesn't really work and again nashandra is a fragment of him and she fights 4-C botc so how is he not 4-C as well

 

[Konaguna]

Every downgrade thread so far has used the same points to try to downgrade the verse so the response stays the same generally

Are you sure about that?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Can we all just agree that linear progression scaling in Dark Souls just doesn't work on anyone but the player character? If we do, a lot of characters like Dragonslayer Armour would scale to the God tiers of the verse.

We can only scale characters via feats and statements that grant them that tier. Player characters can be scaled via player level and follow the early, mid and end game keys.

Also while we're on the topic, the scaling of some characters need to be changed, like Lorian is 4-C, so why is the Demon Prince High 4-C, and by extention Gael, for fighting him?

 

[Lightbuster30]

And you haven't provided any viable counterarguments against their points.

She did create the flame. Or rather a twisted version of it that went horribly wrong. She wasn't not strong enough, she was playing with an unstable primordial force, and ****** up big time.

Maybe because it makes sense for the other Lords to scale to Gwyn? It's because the scaling makes sense, with extreamely few outliers/anti-feats. Maybe quit making fallacies, and I'll quit calling you out on them "Cheya".

 

[Blackcurrant91]

I agree with ovens

 

[Mr. Bambu]

1. Yeah obviously linear scaling is bunk since Lore > Gameplay.

2. Kona is essentially just memeing/poking at people at this point so this is essentially dead.

3. I agree with upgrading Lord Souls to 4-C tbh. Gwyn's soul might have been the strongest, and I say that as a maybe, but the others shouldn't be too far off from him. Note that I disagree (if this was brought up) with scaling beings with shards of their souls to them- Daughters of Izalith, Seath, Four Kings, etc.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Bambu makes sense.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

I agree with Bambu as well

 

[The_Mysterious_Stranger_-_Delta-]

I agree with Bambu as well. I was already making an argument regarding why the other Lord Soul bearers shouldn't be massively weaker than Gwyn, but I can't find that thread anymore.

 

[JBennett]

I do have a question though, were the Painted worlds of Ariamis and Ariandel created like a seperate world or are they more akin to Portals to a another location? Because if they were created they might give extra credit to tier 4 God tiers.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

If I'm not wrong, the painted world in the DLC was meant to be a place where people go to after the end of the world. And since it wasn't part of the clusterflip that was the Drag Heap, I'm assuming it is it's own world.

 

[Blackcurrant91]

It seems to be more akin to a pocket dimension. Ariamis created it as 'a sanctuary for those shunned by the rest of the world' there isn't any lore clarifying what it is exactly though. You can see mountains etc in the distance.

 

[JBennett]

So from what I read on the wiki page, it seems like Ariamis created the first Painted world and after some time it was 'rotting' and Ariandel restored it and became the new painter/new owner.

 

[Overlord775]

3. I agree with upgrading Lord Souls to 4-C tbh. Gwyn's soul might have been the strongest, and I say that as a maybe, but the others shouldn't be too far off from him. Note that I disagree (if this was brought up) with scaling beings with shards of their souls to them- Daughters of Izalith, Seath, Four Kings, etc.

i agree but it think we should make 2 keys Prime | Weakened since as shown by Nito's soul description, their lord souls have greatly weakened

 

[Antvasima]

@Matthew & Bambu

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Konaguna]

There are no conlclusions yet, almsot no one has even bothered to make a proper refute