Massive Dark Souls Downgrades 3

[PrettyFearMachine]

Just looked through the thread and I can see where OP is coming from. Not a DS expert though.

And please, no more inflammatory drive-by posts such as the very first one. Be respectful.

 

[Overlord775]

I have an idea, let's put the rating as "possibly" since we aren't 100% sure how the feat is done

^^^

 

[PrettyFearMachine]

I can get behind that, but I'll wait for more input.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

yeah i was always thinking of having ds god teirs at 5C-5A(can power the sun for hundreds to thousands of years) and possibly 4C

i really think we should do somthing along those lines

 

[Hellbeast1]

I'd suggest High 6-A (can fuel the First Flame which for context was capable of bringing light into the world and allowing the Age of Fire to continue) likely 4-C (the First Flame is tied to the sun's own existence, the sun eventually dying if the Age of Fire ends)

 

[Hellbeast1]

How's that sound??

 

[Sir_sun_man]

I'd suggest High 6-A (can fuel the First Flame which for context was capable of bringing light into the world and allowing the Age of Fire to continue) likely 4-C (the First Flame is tied to the sun's own existence, the sun eventually dying if the Age of Fire ends)

sounds good to me

 

[Sir_sun_man]

although i'd go for somthing like high 6-A likely 5-A, possibly 4c since you know they don't power the sun indefenetly

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Powering the sun is at a minimum High 6-A. It's far higher since it's for thousands of years which would be like 5-A. Someone needs to make a calc.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I personally prefer my suggestion of High 6-A since it avoids multiplication via time. Reason for this is it's just a bit dodgy imo (say I'm holding a heavy weight for 10 years, how much energy am I producing via my holding it?)

 

[Therefir]

Here is the calc.

 

[Sir_sun_man]

ok so a 5B defenenetly thats good to know

then it should be at least high 6-A, likely 5-B, possibly 4-C

 

[Sir_sun_man]

also if we include the dark lord ending for ds 3 it should make the ashen one high 4-C as he consumed the first flame and took all of its power.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As for 5-A. Time is Dark Souls is never absolute, which is why I'd tend to prefer baseline 4-C. We know that huge swathes of time do indeed pass between games- entire civilizations are lost to history, renowned folkloric heroes names are lost to time, etc. The rare few references we get to time are also nearly bunk due to damned Solaire's time is convuluted mumbo jumbo.

 

[Hellbeast1]

I agree with Bambu on the 2-C statements, they're so damn vague we can scarcely do anything with them.

 

[AguilaR101]

I don't think you can use total energy overtime which is what that calc entails to measure their AP unless explicitly shown that the totality of the energy comes as result of a single action.

Other calcs tend to divide the energy and only use the output per second instead of the total energy when a feat takes a substantial amount of time to perform, in this case the 5-A energy is obtained after a timespan of a thousand years.

 

[Therefir]

Isn't the "single action" linking the flame?

 

[Hellbeast1]

Yeah it would be

 

[Overlord775]

indeed

 

[Antvasima]

I removed quite a lot of off-topic posts. Carry on please.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Worth nothing that the dwindling of the First Flame in the Dark Souls 3 DLC was collapsing reality itself, and destroying time causing beings from different eras to appear

 

[Hellbeast1]

Still with the rather convoluted nature of time in soul's mythology I'm unsure personally

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Worth nothing that the dwindling of the First Flame in the Dark Souls 3 DLC was collapsing reality itself, and destroying time causing beings from different eras to appear

Assuming you're talking about Ringed City and not Ariandel, since guys like Ruin Knights, Ledo, etc just show up for no reason and basically everything from that DLC is just from every other title. And... as said above due to the nature of time in general with Dark Souls, I'm unsure that's truly a Tier 2 feat. I agree the First Flame absolutely messes with time, to be sure, but whether or not it is a Tier 2 feat is debatable since time is about as stable as a china shop held up on a single pole.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I don't think it's a Tier 2 feat because we don't know how large the Dark Souls universe really is.

But the whole "Light is Time" scenario is more because the Flame is what keeps reality, and thus time going.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Well. Going stable, at least. If the flame dies something goes on. A new flame can be seen, somewhere down the line from the darkness if you just let the flame die.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

We do know that Dark Souls at least has a solar system with multiple planets orbiting a star due to orreries and armillary spheres that can be found in certain places.

 

[Iapitus_The_Impaler]

If we do not know the size, would that be high 3-A?

 

[Konaguna]

The hell is going on here? Nothing will ever make them higher than they already are, the Lords of Cinder are just strong individuals who can link the fire, they are not some god tiers above everyone else, and them keeping the flame alive doesn't make a difference, they are just keeping it lit, and that's literally all we know, and Aldia's the only one who actually transcended the cycle of the fire and actually tells us what it does, makes an illusion of a world of light.

And I'm getting all do this straight from the game

 

[Kepekley23]

We do know that Dark Souls at least has a solar system with multiple planets orbiting a star due to orreries and armillary spheres that can be found in certain places.

The same models were already used back when the Sun was believed to be about the size of the moon

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, is there any evidence that Dark Souls's cosmology is any different than real life? Because if there is a true Solar System then it follows that the rest of the universe is the same size via basic uncontradicted logic, unless there are direct statements to suggest otherwise.

 

[Konaguna]

Also, is there any evidence that Dark Souls's cosmology is any different than real life? Because if there is a true Solar System then it follows that the rest of the universe is the same size via basic uncontradicted logic, unless there are direct statements to suggest otherwise.

Suggesting a setting is at most universe sized unless something contradicts it, that sounds very familiar ƒñö

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Regarding scaling, I don't think DS can work via linear scaling. The shortcuts and sheer skill based gameplay make AP scaling harder than normal games. Feats and statements are the reasons why the characters are placed at their tiers, not because one boss is weaker than the previous by virtue of progression.

Also, time is DS is ambiguous and works heavily on suggestion. Ringed City should logically have taken place at the end of the world as it was stated that at the end of the world, all places will converge. Dreg Heap is a testiment to that.

Gael being a God-tier makes sense as he killed basically every other living being on the planet and acquired the Dark Soul. It should make him comparable to King of Hallows ending Ashen One.

 

[Konaguna]

Every other living being? You got scans for this?

 

[Overlord775]

Him just attacking everything that lives shows that

Also everything is reduced to ashes, so assuming that almost everything is dead is not much of a stretch

 

[Paul_Frank]

I haven't played in a while but I remember something stating he ate all the humainty all the way until you meet him at the end of the world in the ringed city and remade the dark soul within him

 

[Konaguna]

So no scans?

Also saying everything is dead is not true, that woman with the hammer and lightning bow can still be found in gaels arena, and the ringed knowgjt still walks around the place, and he only attacks you because you had the dark soul

It's been stated that he ate all the pygmies, but about everything else, nothing is said, considering this is in the future, no one can say what happened.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

He has the Dark Soul, not you. The whole point of both DLCs was to get you to kill him so you could give the painter the Dark Soul on his behalf. It's even shown during the second half of the boss fight when he coughs up black blood. He accumilated the Dark Soul by killing everyone as everyone had a part of it within them.

It's not hard to put two and two together with these things.

 

[Overlord775]

. * Spear with an undead body stuck to it

 

[Konaguna]

I'm pretty sure he attacked you because you had something he wanted.

He got the blood from the pygmies, not everyone everyone has a part of the dark soul within them. He remade the dark souls by processing the blood of the dried up pygmies, and ended up becoming corrupted for taking in too much of it.

I still stand by my claim. Gael isn't a god tier, he didn't kill everyone as there are even 2 characters still alive around his radius. The dude who had the full dark soul was Manus, literal creator of the abyss, which is what DS ties to.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

He attacked you, because like every other human in the series, you had part of the Dark Soul within you. However small, you had it, and he wanted it. That's why he went bananas and tried to attack everything he saw.

It's the whole deal with his arc. He sent you to the painting to save the painter and kill Frede and the father so that they had a reason to make a new painting. Then, he literally directed you to the Ringed City so that you could destroy the illusion and kill him to give the Dark Soul he aquired from his murderfest to the painter for her painting.

When you fight him and he entered the second phase, he even acknoledged that he had the Dark Soul.