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Okay. Can somebody please give a full easy to understand explanation, so I or other staff can help you our with evaluating it.
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Massive Chronoa DBH abilities addition
- Thread starter Rikimarox2
- Start date
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She'd get EE from being to erase alternate timelines and erasing people from history
Resistance probably not as the Multiverse was collapsing but not via Erasure
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I could
But not right now
I'm heading out in a few minutes
But I should be back in 3 or 4 hours
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Hmm that explains a lot, thanks for telling me.
Vietthai96
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Immeasurable Lifting Strength is a no, unless we have feat of her lifting it through physical mean, it is just stablizing feat. Limited Higher Dimensional Manipulation sound plausible to me
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Ok
Also I'm back and I'll be writing up the a summary of things still needed to be discussed shortly
Okay Thanks Viet
Also I'm back and I'll be writing up the a summary of things still needed to be discussed shortly
Vietthai96
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Also Void Manip is vague, fly through Void is just flight not Void Manip, unless it is specifically detailed as she manip the void to fly through it
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Ok so now for the Pending Arguments that have yet to bet settled as of Yet
Pending Arguments
1.
Higher Dimensional Manipulation
My reasoning for HDM is as follows:
Near the end of the story mode of Dragon Ball Heroes: Ultimate Mission X, after Chamel's power causes both the Dragon Ball and Over World to collapse, she manages to hold them together using all her strength.
Also I believe there was a statement in the xenoverse games when she merged timelines together
This by itself could warrant a possibly Limited HDI, but then I got some added context from Domino
In which he says the following:
Since people are focusing on this point, some context - it's more nuanced than just the multiverse falling apart from Chamel (and Demigra) existing. The reason why that was happening was because Demigra was inside a Spacetime Door (essentially a time rift) at the time, and his immense power was destabilizing the door, which would start a chain reaction causing reality to collapse. Chronoa (with help from most of the Time Patrol) kept the door stable until Chamel was defeated.
Which at this at this point makes me wonder if it is a Limited HDM feat or if its a Space-Time Manipulation feat or maybe a Lifting strength feat because the way the door was kept stable was never stated by Domino and according to my statement she did it using her strength but strength can be interpreted many different ways
2. (Concluded)
Causality Manipulation
My reasoning for this was through my following statement:
Chronoa has the power to erase alternate timelines and remove other anomalies created by time travel and/or alterations of history, though she can choose to leave them as they are as she did with Future Trunks' and Cell's timelines.
According to Viet, EE any point/event in time = Causal Manip as you delete an event and make it like it never happen in the first place at that point in time
And others seem agree with Viet and Causality
Also there is a second evidence
In my Extra additions I showed scans of Chronoa using her sealing technique to seal Mechi, the demon gods and the demon realm outside of time in which had an adverse effect on time and history as a whole. The effect being that all Historical Information and Records of all of them being erased from the scrolls of Eternity which contains all records of History
This would Translate to Limited Causality Manipulation via Sealing which multiple people seem to agree with as well so I'd say that the Causality Manipulation is a done deal and now moving on to the next
3.
Acausality
So I talked it over with Viet
Here is what I explained:
She sealed herself along the Demon Gods and the Demon Realm outside of time
In doing so All Historical Information of which were related to her and them were completely erased from the Scrolls of Eternity
Which Viet replied to saying:
That could be both Acausal Type 1 and 4
I want to know how many agree and disagree with this
4.
Limited Unconventional Chaos Manipulation
So my explanation behind this was:
It's stated by Chronoa herself that upon her Death, all of History will be taken down along with her so essentially history is destroyed if she dies or something.
According to possible uses of Wiki, Chaos Manipulation is primarily used in the form of destruction, such as the destruction of space, time, or even reality itself, so at the very least it's plausible
What Viet had to say on the Matter is this:
It is possible though, but i don't know if it is Unconventional or Limited
So I'd like here others thoughts on the matter
5.
Possible Resistance to Time Manipulation and/or Time Stop
It's stated way too many times that in her Power of Time Unleashed State she has complete control over all aspects of time itself in it's entirety and can use all the power of Time so I suppose in some way given that she controls all of time, using any form of time related abilities against her would be really difficult. Especially considering that in all of Xenoverse and the Heroes Anime and Manga, we NEVER ever see her being affected by any time based abilities, so at the very least it is plausible and worth discussing.
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Also one more Addition
Chronoa should have Info Analysis for the same reason Xeno Goku, Xeno Vegeta and many more I can name have it for
Plus she does it in both XV and Heroes
Example of Info Analysis at 0:17
And also Attack Reflection via using Godly Chronos Cannon
She reflects Ki Attacks at 6:20
Chronoa should have Info Analysis for the same reason Xeno Goku, Xeno Vegeta and many more I can name have it for
Plus she does it in both XV and Heroes
Example of Info Analysis at 0:17
And also Attack Reflection via using Godly Chronos Cannon
She reflects Ki Attacks at 6:20
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Vietthai96
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1. Every DBH character should have Information Analysis, even Beat
2. Yes Chronoa should have Attack Reflect. In DBH mission trailer she reflect attack back Demigra and his gang in the tralier back in the day when she was an ordinary Kai
3. Futher information. She definitely should have Acausal type 1 in her Time Kaioshin key onward as in the same trailer she is unaffected by the Demigra changing the past by killing her past when she was an ordinary Kai
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Also here's another Obvious and Situationally Useful Ability she should have which I'm both surprised & appalled she doesn't have
Aura
Vietthai96
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The Aura part was already coveres in all DB character's Ki Manip description
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OH
In that case forget I said that
Both if that's it I'd say there no other abilities I can find
All that's left now is to wait and see
Also for Brainwashed Form
Her Attack Potency Justification can be that she was able to Overwhelm Base Xeno Trunks
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I just want to argue against this piece of evidence in particular, not the overall argument: no, they weren't, there is no evidence of that. There were disruptions to spacetime, but they were caused when the Demon Realm left the Time Labyrinth, not when it entered it.
''
What is the statement? What is the context behind it?
Yeah, that seems likely.
Chronoa could get it from Xenoverse, but not from Heroes. Info Analysis does exist in Heroes, but it is a rare thing, and Chronoa does not qualify.
(Xeno Goku and Xeno Vegeta should not have it, I would have brought it up earlier if I had remembered it was on their profiles)
Attack Reflection is good.
Ignoring that the trailers are very unreliable, Demigra didn't kill her past self, so this doesn't mean anything.
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Here's what based my statement on taking everything at face value
She seals Mechi and the Demon Realm
Outside of Time
And to the ABSOLUTE SHOCK of Trunks, the Demon Realm (and by extension everyone in it at the time) has been erased from the Scrolls of Eternity (which holds all records of History) as a result
But if you have a better Explanation for it then I'm all ears
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Upon her death, all of history will be taken down with her, implying her existence keeps everything in balance
Her death would essentially result in the end of History
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This just sounds like she's a linchpin for existence in a similar vein to the Soul King. I'm not sure how this grants anything.
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I could see limited HDM for Chronoa but that's it really. Chaos Manipulation is kinda unnecessary and as Planck pointed out it's kinda like the Soul King. Acausality is a tricky one but I could see a possibly Acausality 1 and 4 for Chronoa, but I'll wait for more input.
Resistance to Time Manipulation and Attack reflection are fine
Resistance to Time Manipulation and Attack reflection are fine
Vietthai96
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Well i disagree with Chaos Manip though, after some research
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Just a heads up, l also did ask SSJRyu1's help in the acausality issue so I'd like to hear his opinion on it aswell
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ProudLearner
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The best that I could do. It is very difficult to find transformed Keysword to render. I guess this will do until we get one that is better.
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Keep in mind that Trunks looked at one scroll, the Demon Realm being missing in the present doesn't mean that it vanished from the entirety of history.
Sure, though as others have said it's not really Chaos Manipulation.
Vietthai96
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Well the result of Chaos is just a chain reaction cause by Chronoa death, so it is not Chaos Manip as you need to actually, directly manip it through your power
Rabbit2002
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Chronoa is declared the Creator of Time, heavily implying that she resembles the Soul King (Bleach). Create and maintain the world with their power and existence, only Chronoa is Both 2A multiverse instead of 3 realms
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Vietthai96
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Here we go again, Concept manip DBH 
Rabbit2002
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Just my thoughts, never mindHere we go again, Concept manip DBH
However we can also add something into her time manipulation ability like "Create and maintain time and history on an infinite Multiverse scale" based on the above statement.
Rabbit2002
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One question: The Scroll of eternity even contains places like the Demon realm that exist apart from/separate from time and history due to its paradoxical and acausal nature (history has never existed or history has no history, however I'm not referring to it as NEP in any way) and she also states in the World mission that Scrolls is "nothing less than All of Existence"
So, is Chronoa's time labyrinth considered a form of BRF or Seal to Void outside existence itself? Due it seal everything outside Scroll of eternity into Crack of time (it really different than CoT in XV, but no matter) ?
So, is Chronoa's time labyrinth considered a form of BRF or Seal to Void outside existence itself? Due it seal everything outside Scroll of eternity into Crack of time (it really different than CoT in XV, but no matter) ?
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Chronoa did not create time itself, the timelines predate both her and her Tokitoki.
Time Labyrinth seals anything in the radius inside itself, and transports itself to the Crack of Time - so it would be a combination of Sealing and BFR. It's essentially a stronger variant of the technique Chronoa used to seal Demigra and Sealas, that also (in theory at least, it never actually happens) freezes them temporally.
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@Elizhaa @Dragonmasterxyz @Soldier_Blue @DarkDragonMedeus @KLOL506 @Therefir @Crabwhale
Would you be willing to help evaluate this please?
Rabbit2002
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Oh shit I forgot about this
Even Elder Kai is 1000 years older than her
However, it's not clear why her existence is required to maintain all timelines so that it doesn't collapse
Maybe something like chicken and egg here
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Looking purely at those scans, considering Dabura said he was going to take her power, it's possible he meant that he was going to pull a Demigra and nuke the Time Nest after her death.
Rabbit2002
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I do not understand what you mean
However Dabura frankly said that history falls apart when she dies, it's even on her profile and is accepted. If you want to remove it, make another CRT
In addition, Dabura only summons Demigra under certain conditions, this Demigra also implies that he is not Kaioshin of time or absorbs toki toki like XV1, otherwise he would never want to kill Chronoa just for himself. becomes the God Who control time (in XV1 we clearly see that when Toki toki has made his God complex ego think that he is the only god who manipulates and rules all spacetime and even doesn't consider Chronoa a Kaioshin of time or a god)
Also Demigra and Dabura absorbed Chronoa's power to create a whole new multiverse and manipulate it.
If only destroy time vault, he did it from the beginning lol
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High-tier stuff like this I really can't touch for obvious reasons, I don't know the first thing about them. I try to avoid 'em as much as possible whenever I can.
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You make an interesting point
But please also keep in mind that we see multiple scrolls on the ground
It could be implied that Trunks checked through all (the few we see on the the panel) of them off panel, but at the same time maybe it was just the one
Also here's how Trunks describes the Scrolls in his talk with the Future Warrior:
"This... Is the Scroll of Eternity. All of Time... All of History. Everything... Its all listed in here. But... here just take a look at this. As you can see... if history... is any way altered or distorted... it could change the world as we know it. We have no choice. We have to stop it... We can't let history change."
And they way the Time scrolls are described in Xenoverse is as followed:
Scrolls of Eternity, are special scrolls that contain the record of various time periods and eras in the history of the Universe
The time scrolls hold a record of specific time periods such as the battle with the Saiyan Raditz during the beginnings of the Attack of the Saiyans in Age 761, the Dragon Team battles against the Saibamen and the elite Saiyans Nappa & Vegeta, and the Battle on Planet Namek.
Some scrolls record Alternate Timelines such as the GT Era and Future Trunks' own timeline.
Because they are stored in the Time Vault should it ever be destroyed or damaged, history would be erased implying that the destruction of a time scroll could erase the period it records from history.
So essentially, the Demon Realm being erased from that one time scroll means that the Demon Realm was erased/removed from that specific timeline/era, however it could also be implied that the demon realm was erased from multiple eras/timelines or all of History, given that in the panel there were multiple time scrolls present and trunks could have checked through those (off panel) as well and realize the demon realm wasn't present within those eras as well.
Either way, your point still holds up
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You make a good point, but the fact a time patroller, a veteran would just look at one scroll without checking out, seeing how much of a threat mechikabura is, wouldn't be better to assume that he checked all the scrolls before saying that statement, than just assuming he checked one. Also the description of attacks helps solidify the idea
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Hey PL, do you think you could do more with either of these image
The best that I could do. It is very difficult to find transformed Keysword to render. I guess this will do until we get one that is better.
Btw thanks for continued help and support
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Okay so this is where we currently are with the proceedings
Limited HDM mostly accepted
Acausality, still being debated but most have agreed for Type 1 and/or 4
Chaos Manipulation has been thrown out
And the other two have already been concluded
I'm almost ready to start Summerizing
Just need Acausality out of the way to be done
Limited HDM mostly accepted
Acausality, still being debated but most have agreed for Type 1 and/or 4
Chaos Manipulation has been thrown out
And the other two have already been concluded
I'm almost ready to start Summerizing
Just need Acausality out of the way to be done
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