Excellence616
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I would be better if the staffs handle it by themselves.
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Marvel Cosmology - Clean Up and Revision.
- Thread starter Alonik
- Start date
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- Tags
- eternity marvel comics
- Status
Excellence616
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Okay
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We have already talked about and debunked infinite-dimensional universes in this thread. I don't consider it acceptable to waste the time and patience of myself and others over and over with the same arguments.
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Oh yeah, the staff should do it, i hope the peeps in charge of marvel come back soon (?). I'm fine with that, cuz every time i bring a thread, the first time is supposed debunked in the thread, but then someone goes there and makes the same thread with the same argues and is approved.
Whatever, anyway.
Whatever, anyway.
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I would still greatly appreciate your help if you follow my instructions above, and do not try to apply infinite-dimensional universes again, especially as Confluctor and Impress seem to have left this community.
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so what is the conclusion of this thread? we gonna just throw out everything like we usually do with marvel? "cuse scaling bad" for the emptinth time?
Excellence616
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Just to be clear, “we" agree with infinite dimensions but we disagree that the NZ or the Universe scales to it because “Marvel upgrade bad" or something?
Someone remind me why we even disagreed i was ****** up last Friday
Someone remind me why we even disagreed i was ****** up last Friday
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We agree with an infinite-dimensional Marvel multiverse, but not infinite-dimensional regular universes or Negative Zones, yes.
For further information regarding what we currently need to do here, read this post please:
For further information regarding what we currently need to do here, read this post please:
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These infinite dimensions come from the junction to everywhere? Correct?
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So, we accept the Junction to be High 1-B, but we dont think its inside the NZ because it would warrant for outrageous ratings or something?
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Alright, let this be my last shot on this (hopefully)
Not every writer uses every dimension in the universe when displaying “Universe affecting" feats.
Why should we assume that every universal destruction is referring to the full scope of 616, with it being a reference to every cosmological structure inside the timeline across Marvel comics history? And not just what the Characters/Authors of the comic believe “their world" as.
Especially with the fact that other structures inside 616 are regularly referred to as universes too
And with the fact that some characters interpret the 3D universe to be its own world disconnected from higher dimensions as regularly shown in Blackwulf (1994)
Simply enough, a character destroys a universe, it will be interpreted as a regular 3D space unless proven otherwise,
if shown to be encompassing the full universe, if it's completely inconsistent then we dismiss the feat, simple as that
Literally the safest option we can take instead of blatantly dismissing a fact.
After all, Marvel Comics is 80+ Years old, of course authors will simply interpret the universe as what a universe is commonly interpreted as
Yeah thats about it, i am unfortunately certain this thread will be rejected, even though i think its very good evidence of Subspace being High 1-B and an already High 1-B structure existing inside the NZ, as well as the statement that implies that the NZ literally controls dimensionality as a whole
If we all agree on this premise, then why cant we use that exact logic for the opposite?
Not every writer uses every dimension in the universe when displaying “Universe affecting" feats.
Why should we assume that every universal destruction is referring to the full scope of 616, with it being a reference to every cosmological structure inside the timeline across Marvel comics history? And not just what the Characters/Authors of the comic believe “their world" as.
Especially with the fact that other structures inside 616 are regularly referred to as universes too
And with the fact that some characters interpret the 3D universe to be its own world disconnected from higher dimensions as regularly shown in Blackwulf (1994)
Simply enough, a character destroys a universe, it will be interpreted as a regular 3D space unless proven otherwise,
if shown to be encompassing the full universe, if it's completely inconsistent then we dismiss the feat, simple as that
Literally the safest option we can take instead of blatantly dismissing a fact.
After all, Marvel Comics is 80+ Years old, of course authors will simply interpret the universe as what a universe is commonly interpreted as
Yeah thats about it, i am unfortunately certain this thread will be rejected, even though i think its very good evidence of Subspace being High 1-B and an already High 1-B structure existing inside the NZ, as well as the statement that implies that the NZ literally controls dimensionality as a whole
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I would even reinforce how the term Hyperspace was born in Captain Marvel vol 1, and there it describes this structure being part of the Negative Zone and just another name for subspace like the guidebook says, but if even the evidence showing 5D and 6D in dimensional readjustments inside the Negative Zone isn't enough for the false counter argument of "this will cause a wanked tiering", and not the fact of how Marvel works the realm, then it's just a waste of time.
The peeps who took care of the verse had already warned me that it would never pass, not because it was wrong, but because even if i bring evidence to every writer saying that the Negative Zone is Infinite Dimensional, it won't be accepted.
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yeah honestly I gave up on getting marvel any higher than low 1-A for the multiversial abstracts ages back
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Secret wars states the beyonder is infinite-dimensional or his realm is, no statement that the multiverse is infinite-dimensional especially in case of higher-infinities.
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Cause it could be 2-A.
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Negative zone refers to spatial dimensions not just dimensions in general
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Dimensions are either spatial or temporal, I don't get what you mean except you mean Negative zone containing infinite dimensions that are superior to one another with R>F difference. I would like to see the scans of Negative zone.
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I think that it was mentioned during The Beyonder's appearance in the Hulk comic at the time.
Also, to NHTkenshin2 and Alonik, again, infinite-dimensional universes do not have anywhere near sufficiently consistent and elaborate evidence for an 83 years old company with several tens of thousands of stories, and the junction to everywhere definitely seems to work much the same way as several other higher-dimensional nexyses that have been established to exist in Marvel Comics and interconnect with and are accessible via lower-dimensional universes, but definitely not remotely contained and confined by them in their entireties.
In fact, if they were entirely contained rather than just being accessible by lower universes, they wouldn't be able to lead anywhere else in the multiverse per logical definition.
End of discussion. Do not ever bring up this issue again. Thank you.
Now, let's focus on the scaling of the lower multiversal aspects/conceptual entities, and the comparable cosmic entities, who do not scale to Multi-Eternity in their entireties.
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I read it with the thing book then as many books worked with secret wars during that time, perhaps I didn't see or don't remember.
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Please re-read my post
You have brought up this problem multiple times and i have already given a very plausible solution
It is stated that the junction (not a portal to the junction) is “within" the NZ, as well as a scan from databooks explicitly showing the junction to everywhere while showing images that describe the Negative Zone
Also, maybe i am not aware, but Is there evidence that the junction is “accessed” by the NZ?
Like a statement or a showing where a character enters a portal which leads inside the junction and outside The Negative Zone?
If not, then why exactly assume that the junction is even “accsesed from the NZ”
If no evidence is given, then this is an argument straight up built on nothing
Im confused here, are you saying that these structures being inside The NZ wouldn't make sense because they now cant be accessed somewhere else? Why would we assume that? We already do know that dimensions like the Crossroads can still be accessed from everywhere while still being inside the 616 universe
The discussion will end, when this threads main purpose has evidence to get rejected
You will have to:
- Prove that the Junction to Everywhere doesn't exist inside The Negative Zone
- Prove that the Subspace isnt High 1-B
- Prove that universe statements includes Marvel Comics 80+ years of cosmological structures and doesn't work on factoring in Characters/Writer interpretation of the universe
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The scan isn't working, but if is what i'm thinking, this isn't from a databooks/guidebook, is from the History of the Marvel Universe, an actual comic.
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Remove the characters after "latest", this sometimes happens and the scan might not work correctly. I think it is the one from the History of the Marvel.
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Now that I remembered, the thread about the High 1-B Negative Zone was already accepted when it was done by Kepekley in 2019, I was going to pick up hundreds of proofs that Hyperspace and Subspace are the same thing, but it's irrelevant in the face of it.
Thread where it was accepted, and Antvasima accepted it as well.
Anyway, Negative Zone should be 2portrayed as the High 1-B part of the Multiverse, and the higher realms beyond that. The only thing I brought in this thread was a lot of scans to support and a more solid base for what had already been passed and outvoted by staff and knowledgeable members in the past:
Thread where it was accepted, and Antvasima accepted it as well.
Anyway, Negative Zone should be 2portrayed as the High 1-B part of the Multiverse, and the higher realms beyond that. The only thing I brought in this thread was a lot of scans to support and a more solid base for what had already been passed and outvoted by staff and knowledgeable members in the past:
Here the things to be accepted I think depends on whether you have a stafftag below your profile or not, not least because after the Deep Space part it was my arguments that Kepekley used, and now just bringing the solid evidence for what is already accepted in the profile is being denied. LOL
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No, you have brought up a "solution" that would sometimes use the word universe for a multiverse and sometimes not, and use a distinction that has not been established anywhere. So no.
If the junction truly reaches "everywhere", it is not confined to the Negative Zone per definition, it is just one of many entry points.
We have to use basic logic and consistency in our evaluations. Not extremely rare inconsistencies to overturn try to overturn entire cosmology for as maximised and unreliable statistics as possible.
Also, you image link doesn't work.
That isn't how higher-dimensional junctions/nexuses logically fundamentally mathematically function. Tiny parts of them can intersect with lower dimensions, but that doesn't make those lower dimensions encompass them in their entireties, neither in the case of the Crossroads, the Junction to Everywhere, or otherwise.
All that we need is reasonable doubt that Marvel's editorial department and writers usually or consistently treat regular Marvel universes as infinite-dimensional, which is a very extreme claim that requires similarly extreme evidencem and for our staff to reject this suggestion. Both of these requirements have been filfilled, and continuing to pester me and wasting my time here is not going to change that. Sorry.
So is anybody here willing to collaborate by following my earlier instructions in this thread, so we can accomplish something constructive here, or do you insist on continuing to stubbornly go around in circles by repeating arguments that have already been firmly rejected, in which case I will be forced to close this thread and possibly delete your derailing posts.
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Infinite-dimensional regular universes, including the Negative Zone, have been firmly rejected, whereas infinite-dimensional multiverses that are partially scaled from the Junction to Everywhere are obviously fine.
If your claim above were exactly accurate, Kepekley would have listed all of the universal cosmic entities as High 1-B long ago, which he definitely didn't.
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Exactly my thoughts, I saw read it as a gateway or dimension that connects other dimensions.
I don't know for others but that scan is 2-A as no statement or proof of higher-infinities was mentioned just "limitless dimensions".
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Any specific examples?
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Thank you for trying to be sensible, reasonable, and to use your common sense. I am getting extremely tired of having to deal with people who seem to nearly completely let go of all three qualities whenever DC Comics or Marvel Comics are involved, and recurrently combine this with relentless argumentative persistence, for over 8 years now.
Anyway, is anybody here willing to help me out with the scaling of Marvel's lesser multiversal abstract entities to either High 1-B or Low 1-A or so, or at least lower than Multi-Eternity, or should I close this thread in lack of better options?
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They probably do scale to Eternity the more i think about it
If i am not incorrect master order and chaos are comparable to Lifebringer Galactus, who is “as infinite as the last cosmos"
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I'm inclined to agree with Ant here from what I've read
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Ah yes, the tried and true method of ganging up and spamming Ultima with very onesided information via Discord about verses that he is not in-depth familiar with until he agrees to be used as a weapon of mass destruction for completely exaggerated astronomical upgrades into tier 0 territory. Wonderful. It is great that others here take our responsibility of striving for high accuracy and reliability for our wiki, rather than biased exaggeration, seriously.
Anyway, our staff have already thoroughly rejected your extremely unreasonable suggestion of infinite-dimensional regular universes based on minor snippets of very inconsistent information that at best constitute 0.001% of Marvel's total history, so this thread is over and done with given that you stubbornly refuse to adapt and help me out to turn this into something constructive instead.
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No, they do not seem to reach higher than the level of existence where multiversal aspects/conceptual entities have meetings with each other (although I seem to have forgotten the exact name that Al Ewing gave it at the moment). They certainly shouldn't encompass The Far Shore in particular.
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Thank you for trying to maintain some degree of objectivity and common sense even for verses that you personally really like.
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