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Marvel Comics: Scarlet Witch (HOM) Downgrade

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Deleted member 21887

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Now, in the page of Scarlet Witch (HOM) she was tier to the scaling of a Phoenix force, and that's not true.


"the primal chaos of wanda's mutant magic. the fiery order of the phoenix. two cosmic powers, caught in some kind of crazy cycle, acting as contrary forces, as yin and yang."
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Debunk
In this context, Tony Stark is not saying that they are equivalent / contrary but saying that they are acting opposite.

You should notice these three words.
"acting as contrary."
Click to expand...
And if we read the Phoenix context in Avengers vs. X-Men. Phoenix was depicted as the hope of bringing the mutants back
Zummarize both not are equivalent /contrary but that they are acting opposite. Chaos Magic make the population mutants reduce / extinct Phoenix force bring the mutants it back. mutant population increase. stop the end of the mutants species.

So Scarlet Witch (HOM) is not equal to birds Phoenix.
 
Eseseso said:
Doesn't seem to be anything here suggesting that the Phoenix Force and Wanda aren't comparable.

Disagree
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Gasper said:
I disagree, i think the quote is outright saying they are equal.
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Tony said both powers action opposite not opposite forces.

Chaos Magic, make disappear. Phoenix brought back.

At the end of the AVX event, the Mutants have returned.
Iron Fist tells Tony that he knows all that it will happen. (Phoenix's actions that brought the Mutants back.)
LordTracer said:
I don’t think removing that justification would even change Wanda’s tier?
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If this reason is removed, she will only be 2-A.
 
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Antvasima said:
@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @Sandman31 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Gasper @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Vasco @Eseseso @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @Alonik @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Tllmbrg @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb

What do you think about this?
Click to expand...
I agree, what Phoenix did was just save one of her hosts, but not that she was affected by the chaos wave during the event. To be blunt, in Uncanny X-Men Vol 1 #468 is said outright that The phoenix is a transcendent and unending threat to the whole of creation, and is the "The-end-of-all-that-is". Keep in mind that the HoM event ended in Uncanny X-Men Vol 1 #465, and there the chaos wave was contained and absorbed by Gloriana who reversed the Trans-Temporal Tsunami created by Wanda and healed the entire omniverse.
 
I agree, the scan doesn't say that they're equal, we just assume it implies that when it says that they're opposite in function. Is being opposite in function=having equal power? No. It's not something that necessarily has anything to do with power.

There are many beings opposite in function that are either equal to each other in power or with one being far more powerful than the other, we can't just extrapolate from the ones that are equal to each other in fiction to assume that this must mean that they too are equal to each other. If you trace back why you believe that this makes them equal, you won't find something you can use.
 
Alonik said:
I agree, what Phoenix did was just save one of her hosts, but not that she was affected by the chaos wave during the event. To be blunt, in Uncanny X-Men Vol 1 #468 is said outright that The phoenix is a transcendent and unending threat to the whole of creation, and is the "The-end-of-all-that-is". Keep in mind that the HoM event ended in Uncanny X-Men Vol 1 #465, and there the chaos wave was contained and absorbed by Gloriana who reversed the Trans-Temporal Tsunami created by Wanda and healed the entire omniverse.
Click to expand...
Didn't wanda create omniverse or something like that? (It had been a long time since i read the comic so i can't remember) which can support them being equal.
 
"the primal chaos of wanda's mutant magic. the fiery order of the phoenix. two cosmic powers, caught in some kind of crazy cycle, acting as contrary forces, as yin and yang."
Click to expand...
What issue is this in the OP?
 
Well, if nobody wants to argue against OP i think it should be accepted.
But if someone disagrees they can always do another CRT.
 
Antvasima said:
@Eficiente @Qawsedf234 @SuperAPM @Firestorm808 @EmperorRorepme @Ehnkr2beboh @Elizio33 @LordTracer @MarvelFanatic119 @catzlaflame @Gasper @Maverick_Zero_X @Lightning_XXI @Deagonx @Vasco @Eseseso @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer @Alonik @Spinosaurus75DinosaurFan @Tllmbrg @Dark-Carioca @ObberGobb

I would still appreciate further help here, as I am too overworked in general to be able to handle this on my own.
Click to expand...
I want to read the issues in question before i give my reply, I'm busy currently but I'd find time.
 
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If this were to be removed, that should come along a note in Wanda's profile saying why that scan doesn't mean they're equal. So that people doesn't try to use it in the future. Someone should propose a wording.
 
Eficiente said:
If this were to be removed, that should come along a note in Wanda's profile saying why that scan doesn't mean they're equal. So that people doesn't try to use it in the future. Someone should propose a wording.
Click to expand...
Yes, agreed.
 
Eficiente said:
If this were to be removed, that should come along a note in Wanda's profile saying why that scan doesn't mean they're equal. So that people doesn't try to use it in the future. Someone should propose a wording.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't HoM Wanda still scale >= normal Wanda's other Low 1-C feats?
 
From what I'm seeing, it says they act as contrary forces, even saying they're like Yin and Yang. Them being comparable seems okay, albeit I'm not sure if that's enough to get solid scaling. I'll stay neutral, but leaning towards disagreeing
 
Disagree. You haven't provided any evidence to show that that HOM Wanda is weaker than the phoenix force.

While you are right that Tony's statement is better recognized as the two being opposites, you can also safely assume that it takes equal power to do the opposite action. In example, destroying something vs. creating that same thing can both be considered opposites, and yet are still equivalents in term of AP.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Disagree. You haven't provided any evidence to show that that HOM Wanda is weaker than the phoenix force.

While you are right that Tony's statement is better recognized as the two being opposites, you can also safely assume that it takes equal power to do the opposite action. In example, destroying something vs. creating that same thing can both be considered opposites, and yet are still equivalents in term of AP.
Click to expand...
Evidence that Wanda is as powerful as a phoenix??? And it seems that your given context is still insufficient as concrete evidence is required for clarity.
 
Nothing in the scan suggests that Wanda and Phoenix have a similar duality. Claiming that opposites have the same power seems a bit exaggerated.
 
Lewis said:
Evidence that Wanda is as powerful as a phoenix??? And it seems that your given context is still insufficient as concrete evidence is required for clarity.
Click to expand...
Tony calling them ying and yang, in reference to them balancing each other out and refering to them as two powerful women is more evidence that they are comparable in power than the argument that because they are contrary one must be weaker than the other.

Lewis said:
Nothing in the scan suggests that Wanda and Phoenix have a similar duality. Claiming that opposites have the same power seems a bit exaggerated.
Click to expand...
The literal ying and yang showing the phoenix force and chaos magic, is enough to show duality. You cannot get anymore basic than this without hand holding.
 
Iamunanimousinthat said:
Disagree. You haven't provided any evidence to show that that HOM Wanda is weaker than the phoenix force.

While you are right that Tony's statement is better recognized as the two being opposites, you can also safely assume that it takes equal power to do the opposite action. In example, destroying something vs. creating that same thing can both be considered opposites, and yet are still equivalents in term of AP.
Click to expand...
Ah yeah, I forgot to think, about this but Wanda get the ap low 1-c from the opposite action which opposite action is to remove the power mutants and bring back.

Wanda will get a low 1-c ap, is that a bit exaggerated?
 
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