Marvel Comics: Scarlet Witch (HOM) Downgrade

[Marvel_Champion_07]

I don't know how credible this is both Thor and Wanda with also help from Avengers and X-men could barely pull a win against 1/5 phoenix force Namor. But it's been constantly believed Wanda can damage the phoenix.

For Thor, we currently accept him as being somewhat weakened at that time due to being extremely wounded by the full Phoenix Force prior. Also, even 5-B characters could still draw blood from 1/5 PF Namor

For Scarlet Witch, she has a Varies rating, where 5-B is her lowest while "2-A, possibly Low 1-C" is at her peak. 'Nuff said

Plus, the Celestial Supercomputer scan is at a point of time when Thor had (a portion of) the Odinforce, so he is significantly stronger than his base form

 

[Antvasima]

Wait a minute. I don't think that Thor had any Odinforce when he fought the Phoenix Five.

 

[Marvel_Champion_07]

Wait a minute. I don't think that Thor had any Odinforce when he fought the Phoenix Five.

I know he didn't. I meant that this scan was at a time when Thor had part of the Odinforce

Avengers (2018) 51#

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Its hard to do a timeline MArvel is not exacly consistent but yes he should have Odinforce at the moment this scan happened by the way this happened after phoenix tornament that i menstioned before where Phoenix is supposedly Thor's mother

 

[Antvasima]

Oh. Yes. That is completely correct. Regular Thor cannot kill a Phoenix Force avatar, or at least he shouldn't be able to without plot-induced stupidity.

 

[Antvasima]

Its hard to do a timeline MArvel is not exacly consistent but yes he should have Odinforce at the moment this scan happened by the way this happened after phoenix tornament that i menstioned before where Phoenix is supposedly Thor's mother

For once, Jason Aaron seems to have changed his mind at the last moment in that regard, as he did not implement that idea, likely partially due to that the Thor writer inserted a scene where Thor once again demonstrated powers inherited from Gaea some months previously, and that I inserted a reference to that and another occasion when that happened into Wikipedia, so Jason Aaron would look stupid if he performed that particular retcon. I like the classic history of Thor with Gaea as his mother much better.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

For once, Jason Aaron seems to have changed his mind at the last moment in that regard, as he did not implement that idea, likely partially due to that the Thor writer inserted a scene where Thor once again demonstrated powers inherited from Gaea some months previously, and that I inserted a reference to that and another occasion when that happened into Wikipedia, so Jason Aaron would look stupid if he performed that particular retcon. I like the classic history of Thor with Gaea as his mother much better.

He is writing the current avengers big event against the multiversal masters of evil and he keeps his mind on Thor's mother being Phoenix including Odin and Phoenix relationship in 1000000BC.
Dont know probably will be re retconed as soon as he leaves but for now its what we have

 

[Deleted member 21887]

The scan isn't working for me.

Scarlet Witch Vol 2 #13

 

[Vasco]

Scarlet Witch Vol 2 #13

it just said her foe is chaos, is it really enough to be Low 1-C?

 

[Deleted member 21887]

it just said her foe is chaos, is it really enough to be Low 1-C?

Her enemy Chaos being said equal to Eternity.

But Ant said we should ignore this scan.

This seems suspicious though. It claims that Lord Chaos is suddenly not the embodiment of Chaos, that Mikaboshi is not an aspect of Oblivion, and that regular unamplified Nightmare is comparable to Eternity, all on the same page. I think that we should ignore it.

 

[Vasco]

Her enemy Chaos being said equal to Eternity.

Still not valid to me for Low 1-C, simply just being a foe or enemy of someone isn't necessary mean to scale to them.

 

[Deleted member 21887]

Still not valid to me for Low 1-C, simply just being a foe or enemy of someone isn't necessary mean to scale to them.

HOM retains tier low 1-c, but shifts from reason, equal to Phoenix. be above her Base, who fights Chaos, that being said equal to Eternity.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Still not valid to me for Low 1-C, simply just being a foe or enemy of someone isn't necessary mean to scale to them.

What? As far as this post goes the low 1-C comes from Chaos magic being comparable to the phoenix force to which the OP was debunking this and which i showed another scan were they are proved to actually be comparable. So being 1-C aint in question here

Thus conclusion of the thread this?

HOM retains tier low 1-c, but shifts from reason, equal to Phoenix. be above her Base, who fights Chaos, that being said equal to Eternity.

That part in question now is if Chaos is equal to Eternity

 

[Vasco]

What? As far as this post goes the low 1-C comes from Chaos magic being comparable to the phoenix force to which the OP was debunking this and which i showed another scan were they are proved to actually be comparable. So being 1-C aint in question here

No where stated in the scan I tagged.

I didn't say anything further on the scan you brought.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I don't know how credible this is both Thor and Wanda with also help from Avengers and X-men could barely pull a win against 1/5 phoenix force Namor. But it's been constantly believed Wanda can damage the phoenix.

This was what you said regarding my scan to which multiple people talked about your argument about how thor at the moment of the scan i showed was stronger than when he fought Namor because of the Odin force so unless you have any more complains about the scan i brought the 1-C is guranteed

 

[Vasco]

This was what you said regarding my scan to which multiple people talked about your argument about how thor at the moment of the scan i showed was stronger than when he fought Namor because of the Odin force so unless you have any more complains about the scan i brought the 1-C is guranteed

When Ant mentioned Odin-force Thor, I liked/agreed with his message and didn't say further.

Scarlet Witch Vol 2 #13

This was the scan I asked about, which @Recap_ answered also, so it's enough talking on this.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

When Ant mentioned Odin-force Thor, I liked/agreed with his message and didn't say further.

Do you mean to disagree then? Shot your argument.

Like i said unless you have any reason as for why to ignore the scan i brought then 1-C is a guaranteed

 

[Vasco]

You lack reading comprehension.
Also it's Low 1-C not 1-C.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Still not valid to me for Low 1-C, simply just being a foe or enemy of someone isn't necessary mean to scale to them.

How is this lack reading comprehension? Its clear as day what you mean to which i explained the low 1-C is guaranteed unless you have any reason as for why the scan i brought should not be counted.

If you wanna argue about Eternity vs Chaos im not messing with that im not confident i can argue about Chaos but either way Scarlet witch will remain with the low 1-C tier

 

[Vasco]

I don't even know what you're talking about, you just keep saying baseless things when I've already agreed with @Antvasima and @Recap_ .

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I don't even know what you're talking about, you just keep saying baseless things when I've already agreed with @Antvasima and @Recap_ .

Still not valid to me for Low 1-C, simply just being a foe or enemy of someone isn't necessary mean to scale to them.

Then why did you said low 1-C is not valid then?

 

[Vasco]

Cause such a reason isn't enough for Low 1-C, @Recap_ brought the scans of her fighting chaos which I liked/agreed with but seems he deleted the message, I liked the message he talked about the correction which I checked the scans and seemed fine by me, now shut up let staffs look at it for crying out loud.

 

[Antvasima]

He is writing the current avengers big event against the multiversal masters of evil and he keeps his mind on Thor's mother being Phoenix including Odin and Phoenix relationship in 1000000BC.
Dont know probably will be re retconed as soon as he leaves but for now its what we have

No, he released a one-shot story connected to this a while back, in which Gaea was confirmed to have remained Thor's mother.

 

[Antvasima]

Also, I agree with Vasco. Your contributions here are not very useful right now, Suigetsu. Perhaps it would be better if you stop responding to this thread?

 

[Firestorm808]

@Deagonx @Eficiente @Firestorm808

Does this seem fine to you?

I suppose that makes sense.

 

[Deleted member 21887]

bump

 

[Antvasima]

Thus conclusion of the thread this?

HOM retains tier low 1-c, but shifts from reason, equal to Phoenix. be above her Base, who fights Chaos, that being said equal to Eternity.

@Deagonx @Eficiente @Firestorm808

Does this seem fine to you?

I suppose that makes sense.

So should we apply the above suggestion then?

 

[Deleted member 21887]

IDK. but your message saying scans should be ignored makes me unsure.

 

[Antvasima]

It depends on whether or not they contradict the greater context, given how extremely inconsistent Marvel Comics is, and that can be hard to determine sometimes.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Didnt this got accepted already? The changes are already there is basically just copy paste

 

[Antvasima]

@Vasco @Firestorm808 @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer

What do you think that we should do here?

 

[Antvasima]

And is anybody willing to apply it?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (Her Chaos Magic was stated to equal the Phoenix Force)

Change to

possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (equal to Phoenix. be above her Base, who fights Chaos, that being said equal to Eternity)

Even i can do it

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that, again, Marvel Comics is built on "everybody fight everybody regardless of power level", and I don't think that this seems like a consistent enough power display for her base level to scale from, especially given what I noticed earlier:

This seems suspicious though. It claims that Lord Chaos is suddenly not the embodiment of Chaos, that Mikaboshi is not an aspect of Oblivion, and that regular unamplified Nightmare is comparable to Eternity, all on the same page. I think that we should ignore it.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Well, the problem is that, again, Marvel Comics is built on "everybody fight everybody regardless of power level", and I don't think that this seems like a consistent enough power display for her base level to scale from, especially given what I noticed earlier:

Does Scarlet witch her mother and Agatha necessarily knows about Mikaboshi being an aspect of oblivion? Scarlet Witch knows Mikaboshi exists but she seems uncertain "I know of a Lord Chaos".

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Well, the problem is that, again, Marvel Comics is built on "everybody fight everybody regardless of power level", and I don't think that this seems like a consistent enough power display for her base level to scale from, especially given what I noticed earlier:

They also dont say that Eternity and Nightmare are comarable in power they use both as an example of entities more powerful than the ones Scarlet witch thought she knew.

 

[Vasco]

Thus conclusion of the thread this?

HOM retains tier low 1-c, but shifts from reason, equal to Phoenix. be above her Base, who fights Chaos, that being said equal to Eternity.

I think this is agreed to be the final conclusion, her being equal to the phoenix would be removed.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I think this is agreed to be the final conclusion, her being equal to the phoenix would be removed

Do you mean like this?

possibly Low Complex Multiverse level (be above her Base, who fights Chaos, that being said equal to Eternity)

 

[Vasco]

Do you mean like this?

Yes but I'm still skeptical on the whole fights chaos equal to Eternity but I will agree for now.

 

[Antvasima]

But base level/regular Scarlet Witch scaling to Low 1-C seems far too inconsistent. I do not remember her usually being portrayed as that extremely powerful.