[Marvel comics] Captain Marvel gets what she deserves

[Isaiah_ZaMangaka]

Better not, that panel is part of classic not original you can see she has the photon blasts, and that was her warbird phase that was affected by her powers changing and alcohol, we already agreed not to scale.

Ahh I see.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Okay. That is perfectly fine. Thank you for helping out.

I think so, yes.

Someone re added one of the fights on a tier she doesn't have anymore, I also would like to point out that the main reason for her loss is an argument based on speed blitz caused by stats amp which as per rules shouldn't be added to the profiles

Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.
As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.

Would like to hear what you have to say about it since you seemingly did not erase the fight again despite seeing it.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not remember every discussion in this forum in detail while I am patrolling our wiki, but you can remove the outdated fights again if you wish.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I do not remember every discussion in this forum in detail while I am patrolling our wiki, but you can remove the outdated fights again if you wish.

I removed them again, hopefully the user won't re-add them.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems good.

So what currently needs to be done here, and what has been accepted or rejected by our staff?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Okay. That seems good.

So what currently needs to be done here, and what has been accepted or rejected by our staff?

Well, at first all of it was accepted but one of the staff members brought a few things he believed to be wrong I think I fixed it, so I guess it's all done.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

Should we close this thread then?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Okay. Thank you for helping out.

Should we close this thread then?

I think so.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I will do so.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Context
The thread was closed but there is one more thing to discuss related to a fight that was erased from the profile.

The user Lloydblitzed made this match that ended with Captain Marvel's loss but af this very thread with Antvasima's authorization I deleted them from both profiles

You said to delete every match affected by the changes but Kai won throught Power Absorption and Dura Neg, so her AP upscale doesn't change anything

The changes proposed in this very thread include a few many new abilities an upgrade multiple changes on a deep level to all keys of the character including the key used in this fight got divided in 2.

My arguments
I'm arguing that there is relevant changes that would make this fight unfair and actually some arguments that I will talk about for why I think this fight shouldn't have been added to the profiles in the first place.

Some of the changes added in this very thread include

• Gravity manipulation which can be used to create a field making him unable to touch her
• Spacial manipulation that can bend space around her making it impossible to reach her
• Her ability to disarm opponents would destroy Kai's staff of elements

Now I will discuss some of the things regarding the match itself and the thread.

• During the thread of the fight the reasons why Kai was given the victory was "Power Absorption and Dura Neg" (words from the opposition) except the only reason that was an option was because of a speed blitz from a speed amp an argument he and others mentioned more than once. here, here, here and here which by the wiki's rules it cannot be added to any profile.

Any speed equalized match, in which a major reason a character loses is due to having a disadvantage against some speed value they usually wouldn't have a disadvantage against, may not be added to profiles.
As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.

• Another argument used by the opposition was Kai's metal form being able to redirect Captain Marvel's attacks that only works for 4-C attacks which would not work against a 3-C which was the tier she was upgraded after this thread
• The argument of Durability negation of Kai is

Durability Negation with the Element of Lightning (Capable of harming Cole and Kai with 10 000 volts even when their durability scales higher)

(I don't know why would this be durability negation to begin with) This argument is completely nonsense as Captain Marvel's power absorbs eletricity and she has resistance to electricity anyways.

Another arguments/question
The argument regarding power absortion is based on a staff that is capable of absorbing elemental powers

Power Absorption (Can absorb Elemental powers)

I don't think this should work on anything that isn't alike elemental powers or "equalizable" energies, Captain Marvel's powers shouldn't be equalized as her power allows her to use any kind of energy and the entire spectrum of radiation among other powers. Would like to know if this is valid or not.

Another thing is that Staff of elements apparently has resistance against power absortion

Negation (Chronosteel seems to negate a Elemental Master’s ability to regain their powers after being drained, making them totally incapable of regaining their power)

But Captain Marvel is capable of absortion of tier 1 energies like Gamma radiation, Phoenix Force's energy, energies that are considered tier 1 hax so I think tier 1 hax should surpass the layer of absortion resistance allowing Captain Marvel to absorb her power back or not allowing it to be stolen at all.

 

[Excellence616]

So, Carol should have Tier 1 absorption?

 

[Antvasima]

I think that Suigetsuhyugs seems to make sense above.

 

[Antvasima]

@Sir_Ovens @Maverick_Zero_X @SamanPatou

What do you think about this?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

So, Carol should have Tier 1 absorption?

She is capable of absorbing magic which is tier 1 in marvel which is one of the reasons she has magic resistance, I kinda forgot to link above but here it is

Greater Resistance to Radiation Manipulation (Absorbed gamma radiation from Abomination[71])

I don't have the scan here for when she absorbed Phoenix force but it was in the same comic she created a portal Secret Avengers (2010) #28
There was another scan I kinda lost where she was absorbing powers from most avengers inclusing wanda's magic

She already has tier 1 mind resistance for being immune to Jean Gray's mental probe

• Greater Resistance to Mind Manipulation (By encasing herself in her energy she become immune to even Jean Grey[22])

 

[SamanPatou]

I'm honestly not getting the point, here. Do you want to remove or to re-add the match? Can't we just solve the issue with a new vs thread?

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I'm honestly not getting the point, here. Do you want to remove or to re-add the match? Can't we just solve the issue with a new vs thread?

I'm arguing against it being re added in, all started on Antvasima's profile, a user called Lloyd wants this fight re added. As for making another fight it becomes redundant if it's supposed to end the same way so we are arguing if it's enough changes to be worth making anothe vs instead of just using the one that was already concluded

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I think that Suigetsuhyugs seems to make sense above.

I think you should tag Lloyd as he is the opposing party. Also as you are active in Marvel what exacly do you think regarding tier 1 hax vs layer of resistance that I talked about?

Edit: I have things to do for the next couple of hours so I might not be responding anyone for a while

 

[Antvasima]

I think you should tag Lloyd as he is the opposing party.

@Lloydblitzed

Also as you are active in Marvel what exacly do you think regarding tier 1 hax vs layer of resistance that I talked about?

I have no true opinion about it. My apologies.

 

[Excellence616]

She is capable of absorbing magic which is tier 1 in marvel which is one of the reasons she has magic resistance, I kinda forgot to link above but here it is

I don't have the scan here for when she absorbed Phoenix force but it was in the same comic she created a portal Secret Avengers (2010) #28
There was another scan I kinda lost where she was absorbing powers from most avengers inclusing wanda's magic

She already has tier 1 mind resistance for being immune to Jean Gray's mental probe

Make sense

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The changes proposed in this very thread include a few many new abilities an upgrade multiple changes on a deep level to all keys of the character including the key used in this fight got divided in 2.

Ant has confirmed that minor changes throught abilities they already scale to is allowed, so this isn't even a problem at all

My arguments
I'm arguing that there is relevant changes that would make this fight unfair and actually some arguments that I will talk about for why I think this fight shouldn't have been added to the profiles in the first place.

Some of the changes added in this very thread include

• Gravity manipulation which can be used to create a field making him unable to touch her
• Spacial manipulation that can bend space around her making it impossible to reach her
• Her ability to disarm opponents would destroy Kai's staff of elements

He doesn't need to touch her at all to absorb her powers lol. The Weapon disarming ability is getting countered by that too

And EP are capable of interacting with cracks in Reality, the Spatial Manip won't be a problem

• Limited Spatial Manipulation: Elemental Powers can close MergeQuakes, which are cracks in reality.[1]

Kai is also Bloodlusted, so he'll use anything to go straight for the win

Now I will discuss some of the things regarding the match itself and the thread.

• During the thread of the fight the reasons why Kai was given the victory was "Power Absorption and Dura Neg" (words from the opposition) except the only reason that was an option was because of a speed blitz from a speed amp an argument he and others mentioned more than once. here, here, here and here which by the wiki's rules it cannot be added to any profile.

Ur the same guy that was saying Kai's powers couldn't be used against Carol bc Verse Equilization is somehow unapplicable for Kai but not Carol

• Another argument used by the opposition was Kai's metal form being able to redirect Captain Marvel's attacks that only works for 4-C attacks which would not work against a 3-C which was the tier she was upgraded after this thread
• The argument of Durability negation of Kai is

(I don't know why would this be durability negation to begin with) This argument is completely nonsense as Captain Marvel's power absorbs eletricity and she has resistance to electricity anyways.

Kai scale to Jay who has resistance negation against Lightning as well, her resistances are useless

Resistance Negation against Electricity Manipulation and Invulnerability with Elemental Blades (Could harm the Stone Warriors and bypass their invulnerability to Elemental Powers)

Another arguments/question
The argument regarding power absortion is based on a staff that is capable of absorbing elemental powers

I don't think this should work on anything that isn't alike elemental powers or "equalizable" energies, Captain Marvel's powers shouldn't be equalized as her power allows her to use any kind of energy and the entire spectrum of radiation among other powers. Would like to know if this is valid or not.

Elemental Powers litterally has a UES page....
Are we gonna ignore this?

Verse equalization: Similar supernatural aspects of verses get equalized in a reasonable fashion. So a supernatural energy that almost everyone in a Verse has, which is necessary to fight the characters of said Verse, will be assumed to be the equivalent energy that the opponents use in their techniques so that a proper fight can happen.

But Captain Marvel is capable of absortion of tier 1 energies like Gamma radiation, Phoenix Force's energy, energies that are considered tier 1 hax so I think tier 1 hax should surpass the layer of absortion resistance allowing Captain Marvel to absorb her power back or not allowing it to be stolen at all.

No amount of layers is countering resistance negation unless u have resistance against it. Her absorbing the Phoenix Force doesn't scale up to her resistances, and her magic resistance won't help her here

Carol's own dura neg is limited to physical contact, while Kai can negated 3 of her resistances, and throught range alone

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Ant has confirmed that minor changes throught abilities they already scale to is allowed, so this isn't even a problem at all

What does this have to do with this CRT? She is not scaling to anyone.

He doesn't need to touch her at all to absorb her powers lol. The Weapon disarming ability is getting countered by that too

Power absortion is affected by NLF meaning just because it can absorb 4-C abilities it doesn't mean it can absorb 3-C abilities and potency.

And EP are capable of interacting with cracks in Reality, the Spatial Manip won't be a problem

Interact doesn't mean it can counter it,

Kai is also Bloodlusted, so he'll use anything to go straight for the win

Kai is not bloodlusted, you assumed that it would be like that because he turns evil when he uses the staff, which is really bad argument considering that Kai was fighting the staff's influence the whole time he was using it.

Ur the same guy that was saying Kai's powers couldn't be used against Carol bc Verse Equilization is somehow unapplicable for Kai but not Carol

When did I said it was applicable to Carol, her power allows her to absorb any kind of energy which by the way include tier 1 energies and Kai can't use any energy above that. Verse equalization cannot be used in that match because Carol herself doesn't have a specific energy, she can manipulate all energies.

Kai scale to Jay who has resistance negation against Lightning as well, her resistances are useless

Negating resistance doesn't mean ignoring her ability to absorb it.

Actually after I went to check this power and the justification properly this time and this is pure BS, the Stone warriors are stated by the very video used in the justification that they are unbreakable, yet some how unbreakable turned into "invulnerability" and "resistance to elemental powers" which is complete nonsense, the ninjas didn't even harm the stone warriors, they were just electrocuted, frozen, stuck bellow ground or surrounded by fire, the stone warriors were never even damaged by them just used hax making them unable to move. I saw a lot of problem with Kai's page and this would affect other ninjas as well.

Elemental Powers litterally has a UES page....
Are we gonna ignore this?

Ninjas have not Captain Marvel, she doesn't have a UES that can be equalized.

No amount of layers is countering resistance negation unless u have resistance against it. Her absorbing the Phoenix Force doesn't scale up to her resistances, and her magic resistance won't help her here

Carol's own dura neg is limited to physical contact, while Kai can negated 3 of her resistances, and throught range alone

Mentioned above

@Lloydblitzed

I have no true opinion about it. My apologies.

After rechecking some stuff I think this needs to be seen by staff.
The stuff regarding resistance negation makes no sense and Lloyd added that without any CRT but there is more
There is also something regarding the staff's ability to "negate" comes from

(Chronosteel seems to negate a Elemental Master’s ability to regain their powers after being drained, making them totally incapable of regaining their power)

This is not negation of absortion in any way their inability to get their powers back doesn't mean they can't be absorbed, we actually know the Staff gave the powers back to the proper masters after it was destroyed, but Lloyd user has been using it has an argument against Captain Marvel's ability to absorb her powers back.

Invulnerability to Fire Manipulation (Can wisthand his own fire)

This is in no way "invulnerability" it's just resistance to fire

I have other concerns regarding this page and things that the user Lloyd added to the profile but are irrelevant to this thread. So Antivasima how should we handle this?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not really have the time to properly analyse the information here, or good experience regarding our versus thread standards, since I am so uninterested in them. My apologies.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

I do not really have the time to properly analyse the information here, or good experience regarding our versus thread standards, since I am so uninterested in them. My apologies.

I'm not exacly asking for you to analyse but how should it be handled the fact that multiple abilities were wrongly added or used.

 

[Antvasima]

Please write a summary post regarding that information.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Please write a summary post regarding that information.

Justification for this power

Resistance Negation against Invulnerability to Fire Manipulation (Kai could harm the Stone Warriors and bypass their invulnurability to Elemental Powers)

This link the same used in the justification leads to a video saying the Stone warriors are "indestructable" but no mention to them being "nvulnurability to Elemental Powers".
This link shows Kai surrounding the Stone warriors with fire but no showing them getting damaged in any way that would contradict them being "indestructable"
Meaning Kai doesn't negate resistance

Invulnerability to Fire Manipulation (Can wisthand his own fire)

This is in no way "invulnerability" it's just resistance to fire

I'm sure the other ninjas of the same verse have similar wrongfully abilities

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. That seems very unreliable, and such poorly warranted powers should be removed from all of our Ninjago pages, yes.

If you think that Lloydblitzed has deliberately inserted misleading information into our wiki, it is a quite serious rule-violation reports thread issue.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Okay. That seems very unreliable, and such poorly warranted powers should be removed from all of our Ninjago pages, yes.

If you think that Lloydblitzed has deliberately inserted misleading information into our wiki, it is a quite serious rule-violation reports thread issue.

I can't confirm he did it deliberately, they were "minor additions" that this user added without any CRT which I guess is not against the rules.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Okay. That seems very unreliable, and such poorly warranted powers should be removed from all of our Ninjago pages, yes.

Huh absolutly not? We got confirmation here the Stone Warriors armor is made to counter all of FSM's powers, which includes fire. I will respond to the rest later. Lying about stuff just for the sake of wanking Marvel is purely pathetic

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Huh absolutly not? We got confirmation here the Stone Warriors armor is made to counter all of FSM's powers, which includes fire. I will respond to the rest later. Lying about stuff just for the sake of wanking Marvel is purely pathetic

That doesn't say anything about being invulnerable to those powers only say the stone warriors were used against the first spinjutsu master who had those powers. Them being "indestructible" would still mean they would survive attacks of the element attacks which by the way they did even the stone warriors frozen by ice element were still alive and moving their eyes

 

[Lloydblitzed]

That doesn't say anything about being invulnerable to those powers only say the stone warriors were used against the first spinjutsu master who had those powers.

FSM was loosing the war against Overlord bc they were invulnerable to his powers. This is shown with the Ninjas evading and bypassing all of GM's attacks like it was nothing, same guy who has FSM's powers btw, and was only able to counter their resistances due to resistance negation

Them being "indestructible" would still mean they would survive attacks of the element attacks which by the way they did even the stone warriors frozen by ice element were still alive and moving their eyes

That doesn't mean they are resistant to it lol

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Justification for this power

This link the same used in the justification leads to a video saying the Stone warriors are "indestructable" but no mention to them being "nvulnurability to Elemental Powers".
This link shows Kai surrounding the Stone warriors with fire but no showing them getting damaged in any way that would contradict them being "indestructable"
Meaning Kai doesn't negate resistance

We litterally see Kai kicking them with the Fire blade....how the hell are they not getting damaged

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

FSM was loosing the war against Overlord bc they were invulnerable to his powers. This is shown with the Ninjas evading and bypassing all of GM's attacks like it was nothing, same guy who has FSM's powers btw, and was only able to counter their resistances due to resistance negation

That doesn't mean they are resistant to it lol

None of that proofs invulnerability to elemental powers only proves they might have resistant to those specific powers like fire and most likely because of their physical resistance, and as I said before that isn't even the main proble mbut the fact that the ninjas's abilities did no actual damage to the stone armours just found ways to incapacitate them

We litterally see Kai kicking them with the Fire blade....how the hell are they not getting damaged

Gettting kicked doesn't mean they get damaged.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

None of that proofs invulnerability to elemental powers only proves they might have resistant to those specific powers like fire and most likely because of their resistance,

He said "PowerS"

Kai: Are you sure this is gonna protect us?

Garmadon: If the Overlord's Stone Warriors used this against the First Spinjitzu Master, I see no reason why we can't use it against those exact same powers.

and as I said before that isn't even the main proble mbut the fact that the ninjas's abilities did no actual damage to the stone armours just found ways to incapacitate them

Saying the Warriors were not harmed is ignorance at this point and an appeal to visuals. This does not look like "Just a way to incapacitate them"

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

What does this have to do with this CRT? She is not scaling to anyone.

If character B has character A’s powers and it is accepted on the profile then you can add character A’s powers to character B without a CRT

Power absortion is affected by NLF meaning just because it can absorb 4-C abilities it doesn't mean it can absorb 3-C abilities and potency.

Excuse me? No. This is not how this works. Power Absorption will work even if you’re 10-B and the person is 1-B (not in dimensionality but tier)

That doesn't say anything about being invulnerable to those powers only say the stone warriors were used against the first spinjutsu master who had those powers. Them being "indestructible" would still mean they would survive attacks of the element attacks which by the way they did even the stone warriors frozen by ice element were still alive and moving their eyes

If you have any issues with the abilities, please either make a CRT or prove that those abilities were added without a CRT and thus are vandalism additions and report that to RVT. Otherwise just deal with them since they’re on the profile. This thread should not be a place to debate that.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

He said "PowerS"

The ninjas wearing that armour were incapacitated by the same power they are supposedly "invulnerable" against just right after that scene.

Saying the Warriors were not harmed is ignorance at this point and an appeal to visuals. This does not look like "Just a way to incapacitate them"

In what way does that show them getting damaged? They were electrecuted and fell no actual damage done

 

[Lloydblitzed]

The ninjas wearing that armour were incapacitated by the same power they are supposedly "invulnerable" against just right after that scene.

Hello? Did you just ignore the scan explaining why they got resistance negged

In what way does that show them getting damaged? They were electrecuted and fell no actual damage done

Appeal to visual yet again. The warriors were shown to be harmed and knocked down

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

If character B has character A’s powers and it is accepted on the profile then you can add character A’s powers to character B without a CRT

I'm not gonna talk about that because most likely it was Lloyd who added those powers to the other ninjas too

Excuse me? No. This is not how this works. Power Absorption will work even if you’re 10-B and the person is 1-B (not in dimensionality but tier)

Read the power absortion page

Hello? Did you just ignore the scan explaining why they got resistance negged

That just proves even more that there is no invulnerability only level of resistance.

Appeal to visual yet again. The warriors were shown to be harmed and knocked downKnocked out doesn't mean damaged

knocked out doesn't mean damaged

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I'm not gonna talk about that because most likely it was Lloyd who added those powers to the other ninjas too

Then provide evidence for that and go to RVT.

Read the power absortion page

This only talks about that if you absorb 1-B Fire Manip, you wouldn’t get 1-B but simply Fire Manip. It does not mean that the guy scaling to 1000 joules cannot absorb powers of a guy scaling to 1001 joules.

That just proves even more that there is no invulnerability only level of resistance.

knocked out doesn't mean damaged

I repeat since you ignored this part:

If you have any issues with the abilities, please either make a CRT or prove that those abilities were added without a CRT and thus are vandalism additions and report that to RVT. Otherwise just deal with them since they’re on the profile. This thread should not be a place to debate that.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Then provide evidence for that and go to RVT.

I talked with Antvasima about that.

This only talks about that if you absorb 1-B Fire Manip, you wouldn’t get 1-B but simply Fire Manip. It does not mean that the guy scaling to 1000 joules cannot absorb powers of a guy scaling to 1001 joules.

No it doesn't you are ignoring the fact that the 2 sentences are separated

It would be a No Limits Fallacy to assume someone with this ability can copy anything

then ";" and then

even if they can copy the functions of the ability, they may not be able to copy its full destructive power.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/P...t be able to copy its full destructive power.

Read the power absortion page

This refers to copying Carol's AP, not stealing all her powers

That just proves even more that there is no invulnerability only level of resistance.

Def not the Ninjas backing up what Garmadon said by no selling Overlord's attacks before he grew in power and negated their powers

knocked out doesn't mean damaged

We give AP ratings to characters who knock out others, like with Shazam

Attack Potency: Low Multiverse level (Could knock back Psi-Phon, who had absorbed the powers of Martian Manhunter, Aquaman and Pre-Death Superman, with J'onn and Arthur stating he could give Supes a run for his money[1]. Could break Pre-Circle of Fire Kyle Rayner in half like a pencil[2], defeated an all-out Martian Manhunter and had him nearly knocked-out, later keeping him in a chokehold[3] while sharing his power with Mary Marvel[4][Note 1])