Captain Marvel (Carol Danvers) vs Kai (Ninjago) [2-9-0] (GRACE ENDED)

[TheOrangeGuy09]

All of Carol's powers are natural, all of them are a result of adaptation/reactive evolution, all of them are biological

Teleportation only works on shadows if she is flying her shadow is on the ground so teleportation won't work.
Elemental dragon ain't using element speed at the same time, also good luck trying to use it on space.
Don't even start Marvel has so many layers on mind manipulation that is ridiculous, some literally have Low 1-A mind manipulation hax, Im not even gonna pretend I know how far she is, but she resisted MODOK and Brood who I know have multiple layers already

(Just to note: Elemental powers and Garmadon's powers were natural too. What I meant is that her regen is passive and not an ability to be activated)

It works based on Smoke Manipulation too.
Elemental Dragon does use Element of Speed, but I forgot that they haven't unlocked that ability at the time of Kai getting Staff, so I'm sorry about that. Is flying to space and using Power Null from the Moon is Carol’s first move/standard tactics?
Also thanks for the info, yes Kai's Mind Manip is basically useless here lol.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

(Just to note: Elemental powers and Garmadon's powers were natural too. What I meant is that her regen is passive and not an ability to be activated)

Passive

It works based on Smoke Manipulation too.
Elemental Dragon does use Element of Speed, but I forgot that they haven't unlocked that ability at the time of Kai getting Staff, so I'm sorry about that.

So he can't use it.

Is flying to space and using Power Null from the Moon is Carol’s first move/standard tactics?

Power null? Carol is almost never touches the ground during a fight, she has multiple times made the fight go into space to avoid casualties and unnecessary destruction.

Thanks for the info, yes Kai's Mind Manip is basically useless here lol.

Ya just for an example just a mere human spy already has mind manipulation resistance as basic ability, which Carol already was before she even got powers, I would guess that's like the first layer into mind manipulation resistance, after getting powers everything went up a lot

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Passive

Okay

So he can't use it.

Yes

Power null? Carol is almost never touches the ground during a fight, she has multiple times made the fight go into space to avoid casualties and unnecessary destruction.

So is it her first move? If she ever used that as her first move, can you show that? Because if it's true it is basically a stomp.

Ya just for an example just a mere human spy already has mind manipulation resistance as basic ability, which Carol already was before she even got powers, I would guess that's like the first layer into mind manipulation resistance, after getting powers everything went up a lot

Crazy. Kai isn't even touching her in Mind Manip

 

[Lloydblitzed]

All of Carol's powers are natural, all of them are a result of adaptation/reactive evolution, all of them are biological

Teleportation only works on shadows if she is flying her shadow is on the ground so teleportation won't work.
Elemental dragon ain't using element speed at the same time, also good luck trying to use it on space.

We saw Shadow teleport on the sky using the element of shadow without having Chen's Shadow plane on the ground and Kai can use Smoke to Teleport as well and make himself intangible

 

[Lloydblitzed]

If Carol tries to take him in space he can just kick out of her grip with Spinjitzu or use Smoke Manipulation to make himself intangible and travel back to the ground

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

So is it her first move? If she ever used that as her first move, can you show that? Because if it's true it is basically a stomp.

Hard to say, one time against Rogue she just so angry she punched her to the moon, most of her oponents can fly and have self sustainance allowing them to control the fight, I actually don't remember the last time she fought a human who needs air to live.

We saw Shadow teleport on the sky using the element of shadow without having Chen's Shadow plane on the ground and Kai can use Smoke to Teleport as well and make himself intangible

Look it will be hard to teleport on an opponent constantly moving even more when he can't fly himself, other option is her 7th sense kick in and alert her of the attack.

If Carol tries to take him in space he can just kick out of her grip with Spinjitzu or use Smoke Manipulation to make himself intangible and travel back to the ground

That's where lifting strenght comes in, you can't kick out of a grip if they are completely different levels, also her dura neg means as soon has his caught up in her grip is game over.

Sincerily Carol has many powers that make her absurdly powerful some of which Ant didn't accepted because they are not technically her abilities like for example when she made a duplicate of her she unknowingly made a clone with DNA from surrounding Mar-vell and Phoenix force, imagine she can make a clone that is both as powerful as Carol and as powerful as Superman for example.
There is also powers that don't actually have a way to describe useing VSB powers, for example she can just turn herself into a star that means anything around her is burning hot and dying of radiation, she can also make a White hole which doesn't have a power here but she is accepted as being capable of doing that in a thread i made

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Hard to say, one time against Rogue she just so angry she punched her to the moon, most of her oponents can fly and have self sustainance allowing them to control the fight, I actually don't remember the last time she fought a human who needs air to live.

But they are not angry here tho (well technically Kai is, but it is basically his default of being Bloodlusted and angry in SoE form). Also to punch someone to the Moon, you need a greater speed, and initial speed advantage is Kai's here.
The thing is: if it is her regular first move, then this is a stomp and this should probably be closed, because Kai has little-to-no feats to counter that. However, if she will simply fly to Kai and try to punch him, we can keep the discussion because Power Mimicry and initial speed advantage can give him a pretty solid chance to win.

Sincerily Carol has many powers that make her absurdly powerful some of which Ant didn't accepted because they are not technically her abilities like for example when she made a duplicate of her she unknowingly made a clone with DNA from surrounding Mar-vell and Phoenix force, imagine she can make a clone that is both as powerful as Carol and as powerful as Superman for example.

Does she need prep for that? But either way damn she's pretty much op.

There is also powers that don't actually have a way to describe useing VSB powers, for example she can just turn herself into a star that means anything around her is burning hot and dying of radiation, she can also make a White hole which doesn't have a power here but she is accepted as being capable of doing that in a thread i made

Isn't that Transformation and Black Hole Manip though? (If White Hole has properties of Black Hole)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Forgot to mention (prob it wasn't added in his profile for sum reason), but Kai has elemental Shield which he used to travel from Space to the Earth. Both are bloodlusted so SBA works here. Mb

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

But they are not angry here tho (well technically Kai is, but it is basically his default of being Bloodlusted and angry in SoE form). Also to punch someone to the Moon, you need a greater speed, and initial speed advantage is Kai's here.
The thing is: if it is her regular first move, then this is a stomp and this should probably be closed, because Kai has little-to-no feats to counter that. However, if she will simply fly to Kai and try to punch him, we can keep the discussion because Power Mimicry and initial speed advantage can give him a pretty solid chance to win.

As I said it's hard to say even more so talking about comics where different author make completely different standards, just recently Captain Marvel become used to fight with a sword she made with her own energy manipulation, but next day the authors forget about that.
You don't need speed advantage you only need to hit and Captain Marvel ability to absorb damage allows her to give back 10 times the power in a single attack.

Does she need prep for that? But either way damn she's pretty much op.

She needs to have DNA around, but it's not on the profile anyways.

Isn't that Transformation and Black Hole Manip though? (If White Hole has properties of Black Hole)

It's not really transformation, it's more like manipulating gravity, heat and radiation to become a living star. And no, black hole is not the same as White hole and Ant didn't allowed to create a new power for White hole, but it's technically possible and just recently she was about to collapse into a black hole which I'm still planning to use to an upgrade later

Forgot to mention (prob it wasn't added in his profile for sum reason), but Kai has elemental Shield which he used to travel from Space to the Earth. Both are bloodlusted so SBA works here. Mb

If it's not on the profile it can't be used

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Forgot to mention (prob it wasn't added in his profile for sum reason), but Kai has elemental Shield which he used to travel from Space to the Earth. Both are bloodlusted so SBA works here. Mb

Both are NOT bloodlusted (you did not mention that in Original Post). The reason Kai is bloodlusted because it is the way he is in the series when he uses staff. Also it was not him who used that but Lloyd, but yeah he can still use it.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

As I said it's hard to say even more so talking about comics where different author make completely different standards, just recently Captain Marvel become used to fight with a sword she made with her own energy manipulation, but next day the authors forget about that.

Well, I mean, if ANY author used the way you described (flying into the space and power nulling) against a regular foe she has no previous knowledge of, then it would work here I guess. There is no "consistent" Standard Tactics for her as I understand?

You don't need speed advantage you only need to hit

You do. If you have less speed, you are not the one who is doing the punch. Also if she begins a punch, it gives a solid chance for Kai to use his hax to get closer (safely) and use Power Mimicry.

and Captain Marvel ability to absorb damage allows her to give back 10 times the power in a single attack.

That's true.

She needs to have DNA around, but it's not on the profile anyways.

Alright. Although it's a W ability.

It's not really transformation, it's more like manipulating gravity, heat and radiation to become a living star.

I think you can try to add that in brackets to any of these abilities or just use NOTE section.

And no, black hole is not the same as White hole

Sure, but it may have some properties.

Ant didn't allowed to create a new power for White hole, but it's technically possible and just recently she was about to collapse into a black hole which I'm still planning to use to an upgrade later

Isn't it the same blackhole mentioned in the NOTE section, where it says it is more of her absorbing Black Hole's energy?

If it's not on the profile it can't be used

True, but forcefield creation is mentioned at least in Lloyd's profile from what I remember.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Well, I mean, if ANY author used the way you described (flying into the space and power nulling) against a regular foe she has no previous knowledge of, then it would work here I guess. There is no "consistent" Standard Tactics for her as I understand?

Then here it is, also never said power null.

You do. If you have less speed, you are not the one who is doing the punch. Also if she begins a punch, it gives a solid chance for Kai to use his hax to get closer (safely) and use Power Mimicry.

That is only valid when the speed difference is blitz level which isn't the case, actually considering there is no actual value given we have to assume it wouldn't do much difference.

That's true.

Alright. Although it's a W ability.

I think you can try to add that in brackets to any of these abilities or just use NOTE section.

Sure, but it may have some properties.

Isn't it the same blackhole mentioned in the NOTE section, where it says it is more of her absorbing Black Hole's energy?

Nah, that one she just absorbed and it's not even considered valid because she only absorbed the output, it's way more recent, she got a new permanent power amp a new white tranformation above Binary and become so full of power she was about to collapse into a black hole

True, but forcefield creation is mentioned at least in Lloyd's profile from what I remember.

Captain Marvel also has forcefield creation btw, she uses then to protect herself from attacks, she would very likely use it to stop Kai from touching her

 

[Lloydblitzed]

That is only valid when the speed difference is blitz level which isn't the case, actually considering there is no actual value given we have to assume it wouldn't do much difference.

Kai can speedblitz people using the Speed Element as shown with SOE Chen (a dude who possess the same hax) when he blitzed Lloyd

 

[TheReal7Cris]

Kai vs Carol Danvers (Comics). Who would win a fight?

Kai: Staff of Element key is used and he has acess to all his hax
Captain Marvel: Modern/Binary key is used

Rules:
Both Kai and Carol are limited to 4-C attacks, durability and other stats
Speed is equalized
Fight takes place in a random empty city
SBA for everything else

Kai: @TheOrangeGuy09
Carol: @Suigetsuhyugs
Inconclusive:

Kai’s Dura Neg is gonna be hard for carol to deal with. So I strongly believe kai can win this.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Then here it is, also never said power null.

So she basically tries to blast her opponent into the space?

That is only valid when the speed difference is blitz level which isn't the case, actually considering there is no actual value given we have to assume it wouldn't do much difference.

Well Griffin with Element of Speed leaves afterimages which others do not, so the speed gap is pretty significant. And yes, as LloydBlitzed pointed out, Chen blitzed Lloyd via Element of Speed too.

Nah, that one she just absorbed and it's not even considered valid because she only absorbed the output, it's way more recent, she got a new permanent power amp a new white tranformation above Binary and become so full of power she was about to collapse into a black hole

Oh, so is it gonna become a new key? (Also I'm surprised Marvel Comics are still being released).

Captain Marvel also has forcefield creation btw, she uses then to protect herself from attacks, she would very likely use it to stop Kai from touching her

How durable is it though? And yet again, Element of Speed helps Kai.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Kai’s Dura Neg is gonna be hard for carol to deal with. So I strongly believe kai can win this.

Counted

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

"Speed: FTL with FTL reactions"

Wut

 

[Lloydblitzed]

"Speed: FTL with FTL reactions"

Wut

Well he got FTL combat + reaction speed so ye And its far higher with the element of speed

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Kai’s Dura Neg is gonna be hard for carol to deal with. So I strongly believe kai can win this.

What dura neg? Lightning attack on Captain marvel? Really?

Kai can speedblitz people using the Speed Element as shown with SOE Chen (a dude who possess the same hax) when he blitzed Lloyd

It doesn't matter

So she basically tries to blast her opponent into the space?

She blasted him to space, I already shown you she can punch someone to space and she sure as hell can pick someone up and take them to space.

Well Griffin with Element of Speed leaves afterimages which others do not, so the speed gap is pretty significant. And yes, as LloydBlitzed pointed out, Chen blitzed Lloyd via Element of Speed too.

Afterimage is pretty irrelevant also she has enchanted senses so she can see the ones that are actually real with microscopic vision

Oh, so is it gonna become a new key? (Also I'm surprised Marvel Comics are still being released).

Maybe I haven't decided yet

How durable is it though? And yet again, Element of Speed helps Kai.

Shields are made of energy they are as resistant as she needs to

 

[Accelerated_Evolution]

Well he got FTL combat + reaction speed so ye And its far higher with the element of speed

It should be just FTL then, or if he has higher reactions than normal speed then should be "Speed: FTL with higher reactions"

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It doesn't matter

It does. That means he can evade all her tricks and use his hax before her. Also, SOE Kai has Post Power Drain Lloyd's powers, who can negate resistance to Elemental Powers from the Stone Warriors. Same Lloyd got Life Manip and is capable of destroying life, which Carol has no resistances

 

[Lloydblitzed]

It should be just FTL then, or if he has higher reactions than normal speed then should be "Speed: FTL with higher reactions"

Ye, Ninjago pages needs a lot of fixing tbh even tho its the verse who got the most updates in the last 3 months

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

It does. That means he can evade all her tricks and use his hax before her. Also, SOE Kai has Post Power Drain Lloyd's powers, who can negate resistance to Elemental Powers from the Stone Warriors. Same Lloyd got Life Manip and is capable of destroying life, which Carol has no resistances

He can't, remember she can fly, also you all been calling me out on "Standard tactics" and your condition to win depends on a very specific tactic you have not shown he uses in character.
Negate resistance to elemental powers not the case here. And she does have life manipulation resistance go check her profile well, also if it's not on the profile he can't use it.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

He can't, remember she can fly, also you all been calling me out on "Standard tactics" and your condition to win depends on a very specific tactic you have not shown he uses in character.
Negate resistance to elemental powers not the case here. And she does have life manipulation resistance go check her profile well

He got resistance to it via Metal Form since he can reflect Lloyd's blast just like Chen did here.
As for his tactic its pretty much similar to Chen: he uses every single elements he got (like, bro litteraly tries everything), which is similar to Chen's way of fighting with the Staff

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

He got resistance to it via Metal Form since he can reflect Lloyd's blast just like Chen did here.

He got resistance to the blasts which by the way isn't even all she can do, she can use radiation which he has no resistance against instead of just full on blasts.

As for his tactic its pretty much similar to Chen: he uses every single elements he got (like, bro litteraly tries everything), which is similar to Chen's way of fighting with the Staff

Except he has no prep time to know her powers, how to use them, or what techniques are actually gonna work. Also copy her powers will not guarantee his win, power mimicry doesn't copy the energy she already has, nor the stamina, and he would actually need to know what her powers can do to even use them. So your best chance it's him copy her powers and then fight on equal level to her until his stamina ends and he loses.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

He can't, remember she can fly,

Kai has spaceflight as well, somehow this was added in Jay's profile but not on Kai's

He got resistance to the blasts which by the way isn't even all she can do, she can use radiation which he has no resistance against instead of just full on blasts.

Except he has no prep time to know her powers, how to use them, or what techniques are actually gonna work. Also copy her powers will not guarantee his win, power mimicry doesn't copy the energy she already has, nor the stamina, and he would actually need to know what her powers can do to even use them. So your best chance it's him copy her powers and then fight on equal level to her until his stamina ends and he loses.

His power mimicry, who comes from Skylor, allows him to use the energy the opponent already has, which was shown when Skylor copied Garmadon's powers and was able to control the Colossus as well as him (She even managed to overpower his control for a while)

 

[Lloydblitzed]

So your best chance it's him copy her powers and then fight on equal level to her until his stamina ends and he loses.

The thing is, he could just spam this trick on her to evade any blasts and user her own powers against her, which will be hard for Carol to counter

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Kai has spaceflight as well, somehow this was added in Jay's profile but not on Kai's

Not on his profile then he can't use it. I'm also not mentioning multiple abilities that Carol can use because it's not on her profile.

His power mimicry, who comes from Skylor, allows him to use the energy the opponent already has, which was shown when Skylor copied Garmadon's powers and was able to control the Colossus as well as him (She even managed to overpower his control for a while)

That doesn't prove he can use her energy, the ability to control Colossus is a power, the fact that she has limited control over it despite having the same power has him shows that it depends on something else rather than energy.

The thing is, he could just spam this trick on her to evade any blasts and user her own powers against her, which will be hard for Carol to counter

Again just delaying not finishing her, and again his stamina gonna end way before hers, delaying the fight is just gonna help her

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Kai has spaceflight as well, somehow this was added in Jay's profile but not on Kai's

Nest time you wanna use things that are not on profile let me show you this

A one hit kill attack that explodes on a biological level, something that Kai would never be able to handle, but i'm not gonna mention because that's not on her profile

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It doesn't matter

It does, though? It means he will be way faster than Carol, so a) Carol can't punch him or blast him to space since she is slower; b) Kai is much more likely to use Power Mimicry on her

She blasted him to space, I already shown you she can punch someone to space and she sure as hell can pick someone up and take them to space.

Ok

Afterimage is pretty irrelevant also she has enchanted senses so she can see the ones that are actually real with microscopic vision

Maybe I haven't decided yet

Okay

Shields are made of energy they are as resistant as she needs to

If their durability is comparable to hers then fine

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Not on his profile then he can't use it. I'm also not mentioning multiple abilities that Carol can use because it's not on her profile.

He can fly using gravity too, and that's on his profile

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Nest time you wanna use things that are not on profile let me show you this

A one hit kill attack that explodes on a biological level, something that Kai would never be able to handle, but i'm not gonna mention because that's not on her profile

The thing is, the EXACT SAME feat was used to justify Jay's spaceflight but not Kai's.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

It does, though? It means he will be way faster than Carol, so a) Carol can't punch him or blast him to space since she is slower; b) Kai is much more likely to use Power Mimicry on her

It doesn't, first as I said that's at best a temporary state until she amps herself, second his speed element is only good for running he can't fly.

Ok


Okay

If their durability is comparable to hers then fine

Actually it's says on her profile that is higher but sure

He can fly using gravity too, and that's on his profile

Has he actually shown that? And can he surpass her gravity manipulation too? CAn he actually speed up with gravity? Anyways if he can fly with it then it should be on his 'profile

The thing is, the EXACT SAME feat was used to justify Jay's spaceflight but not Kai's.

It doesn't matter make a CRT, how I'm gonna know if it even applies to this version of the character or if it requires some equipment that isn't on his equipment section? This is a rule made clearly for people who are not knowledge on that verse being able to vote, you can't use anything that isn't on his profile

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The thing is, the EXACT SAME feat was used to justify Jay's spaceflight but not Kai's.

Jay doesn't have space flight on his profile either

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Has he actually shown that? And can he surpass her gravity manipulation too? CAn he actually speed up with gravity? Anyways if he can fly with it then it should be on his 'profile

He didn't use it, but he should be able to use it like every other elemental powers he possess (And someone else with the same staff used it) + its already in his profile

It doesn't matter make a CRT, how I'm gonna know if it even applies to this version of the character or if it requires some equipment that isn't on his equipment section? This is a rule made clearly for people who are not knowledge on that verse being able to vote, you can't use anything that isn't on his profile

You don't need a CRT for minor abilities addition

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Jay doesn't have space flight on his profile either

He has Lloyd's power and he has that ability

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

It doesn't, first as I said that's at best a temporary state until she amps herself, second his speed element is only good for running he can't fly.

Initial speed advantage is his one of his win cons. Why can't he combine Speed and Gravity Elements?

Actually it's says on her profile that is higher but sure

Yup, just noticed

Has he actually shown that? And can he surpass her gravity manipulation too? CAn he actually speed up with gravity? Anyways if he can fly with it then it should be on his 'profile

Here (Kai has the same staff as Chen)

It doesn't matter make a CRT, how I'm gonna know if it even applies to this version of the character or if it requires some equipment that isn't on his equipment section? This is a rule made clearly for people who are not knowledge on that verse being able to vote, you can't use anything that isn't on his profile

Ok

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

He didn't use it, but he should be able to use it like every other elemental powers he possess (And someone else with the same staff used it) + its already in his profile

Now show me the part that he can go up to her speed with it, it's a different power it doesn't scale to speed unless said otherwise, then explain to me how it can overcome the gravity that Captain Marvel can create which is basically an infinite gravity singularity

You don't need a CRT for minor abilities addition

You also need to add the elemental shield that is not on his profile and all it comes with it, and apparently you said it affects his durability so it's tier change so needs a CRT

Initial speed advantage is his one of his win cons. Why can't he combine Speed and Gravity Elements?

First that's not a wincon, its an advantage at best, wincon means a way to win, his speed doesn't grant him a way to finish her. Can he even do that? Amp one ability with another needs proving after all his speed means nothing if he is being moved with gravity.

Here (Kai has the same staff as Chen)

That doesn't prove speed actually it seems they can't even actually fly but just float up, that's at best limited flight and that doesn't hold a candle to Carol who has real unlimited flight

 

[Lloydblitzed]

You also need to add the elemental shield that is not on his profile and all it comes with it, and apparently you said it affects his durability so it's tier change so needs a CRT

The elemental shield is already on his profile, only the space flight part isn't, and it doesn't affect his tiering

That doesn't prove speed actually it seems they can't even actually fly but just float up, that's at best limited flight and that doesn't hold a candle to Carol who has real unlimited flight

He has the powers of Gravis who was pretty much flying with ease here

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

The elemental shield is already on his profile, only the space flight part isn't, and it doesn't affect his tiering

He has the powers of Gravis who was pretty much flying with ease here

Wrong time, and again doesn't prove he can fly using other abilities.

I'm gonna stop responding here none of your arguments were good enough to convince me, you are still making changes to his profile in the middle of this fight which would certainly is a very questionable thing to do, and you are counting on a very specific wincon that actually doesn't guarantee any win, and requires previous knowledge to work or being used in character.
On the other end Carol has multiple wincons.
Turn herself into a star and burn him to ashes
Use radiation which he doesn't have resistance to.
Outlast him in stamina.
Physically overpower him with her lifting strenght
Durability negation by absorbing his synapses
Take it as you will.