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Mario Nerfs and Sonic Buffs

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The_Smashor

The_Smashor

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Welcome to what will no doubt be the most hated and/or ignored page in the history of wikimedia! Honestly, when there are Sonic buffs, nobody bats an eye. But when there are Mario buffs, everybody loses their mind. I honestly feel that this wiki is a little Mario bias in general. Teir 2 Mario, don't make me laugh. Now then, Ultamate Emerl was going to destroy the planet. As such, ultamate Emerl's nerfs should be reverted, putting him back at 5-B. I mean really, this is obvious. It is stated that Emerl could destroy the planet. Not multiple contidents. Don't worry, I won't mention Infinite here, I rewatched Forces' cutscenes and realized it was more like contident size, if not smaller. A VERY low mass star. But who I will mention is Chaos. Chaos 6 is 5-B. Sonic, Tails, Knuckles etc... should scale to that. And note that these two feats are feats from ADVENTURE ERA Sonic.This isn't even mentioning Modern Sonic, who beat the 5-A Perfect Chaos in base form. So I'd say that Adventure Era Sonic characters should be 5-B while modern era should be At least 5-B, possibly 5-A. Also, Classic Sonic from Mania beat the Egg Dragoon (Who scales to Modern Sonic) When it was at 90% power as well as damaging a phantom ruby powered "Death Egg Robot". But since Forces says Mania Sonic is from another dimention, it seems that we need a new tab in the key for Mania Sonic, who would be able to scale to the Egg Dragoon. Also, since the Master Emerald can cancel out the effects of the Chaos Emeralds, shouldn't Super Mecha Sonic and Imperator Ix's Super Form scale to the 2-C tier of the chaos emeralds, not to mention the Master Emerald itself? Also more proof for 5-A Modern Sonic, in base form he can damage imperfect Dark Gaia, not to mention survive attacks from him.

Now for the Mario part of this. IT IS TIME FOR THE HAMMER OF JUSTICE TO COME DOWN ON THIS WANKED VERSE. Tell me, now I'm a normal human with no powers, and I suddenly find a baby version of Giegue. So I get some sort of power absorbing device and absorb all of his power, he has none left. Does that make me Low 2-C since had I not absorbed that baby Giegue's power he would have eventually become Giygas? NO! No it does not! It dosn't even make me 7-A! Sure the power stars can EVENTUALLY become solar systems, but they arn't yet! That's like saying a baby is at the same level of power as an athlete!

Reasons Mario is 4-A eliminated: 1/3

As for Antasma, Dreamy Luigi is the only reason Mario was able to beat him. Next!

Reasons Mario is 4-A eliminated: 2/3

King Boo. Oh boy King Boo. I actually have nothing to say, but since from what I can tell the Marioverse's next strongest feats are closer to planet level, it can easily be considered an outlier similar to Kirby and co defeating Magalor.

Reasons Mario is 4-A eliminated: 3/3

Also, a speed nerf.

Bowser is only Massively FTL+ with the Grand Star. Mario can't scale to him tagging the Starship Mario. Also, he is almost entirely immobileized when faced with a black hole behind him, only able to move in short bursts. And Mario being able to jump from meteor to meteor without falling in the black hole is clearly just a game mechanic. Not to mention, Mario's own Massively FTL+ "Feat" is entirely accomplished by Lumas. You can even see a predetermined path, Mario isn't the one steering himself. And Han Solo isn't considered FTL for being able to piolet the Melenium Falcon in Hyperspace, so no you can't use that logic for Mario and Starship Mario.

Now to disprove any universal feats for everyone's favorite gaming not a plumber anymore. Mario has always had help defeating universal characters.

Key: Universal "Feat" | Reason Mario/Somebody Mario scales to won

Defeating Dreamy Bowser | Zeekeeper

Defeating Wart who some consider universal | Mario was in his own dream

Defeating Count Bleck | Pure Hearts

Defeating Super Dimentio | Pure Hearts

Defeating Culex who may or may not be universal | Non canon optional boss

Luigi defeating King Boo | King Boo didn't use the paranormal portals for direct combat and Luigi closed the portals by defeating all of the ghosts in a room, not some super powerful sealing spell thing.

Defeating MechaDragonBowser | I honestly don't know. But it's one universal feat so outlier.

Don't get me wrong, I love the Mario games despide being an opposer of the verse. And I'd still call them Planet Level at LEAST. The Mario universe is still strong, just not as strong as this wiki gives them credit for. (And I can see that most modern Sonic games are worse then modern Mario Games, so don't play that card. It dosn't even matter on this website)
 
This seems.... fishy to say the least.

For starters, apparently there's a three point quota for downgrades now...

And Downgrading Mario while Upgrading Sonic in the same thread lessens the chance of being impartial.
 
But he's saying he isn't Tier 2 because he used the Pure Hearts in the fight... Which is exactly what the page is saying, 2-B with Pure Hearts.
 
Alright. I'll start now.

Sonic
I could care less here. W8 4 Azzy.

Mario
Here's where the expertise kicks in.

Firstly, god awful analogy when literally any Luma can turn into a galaxy, and any given Power Star is stronger than them. Not to mention that Giygas (not Giugue. That's Mother 1 only) only gains that power through unconventional means, when the Stars are in a constant cycle of perpetual rebirth.

Secondly, Antasma. Pretty sure that's getting removed anyway.

Thirdly, King Boo. Oh, King Boo. Firstly, you may be right about it not being a case for 4-A, but that's because it's illegitimate, not an outlier. Magolor is an outlier because a bunch of things involving Kirby like struggling against Magolor powered up, but casually beating the more powerful Magolor Soul, some things involving Sectonia. King Boo wouldn't be an outlier simply on the grounds of being stronger.

Fourth, tier 5. No. Even disregarding the 4-A stuff, they'd still be High 4-C due to Yoshi turning Raphael Raven into a star, the black hole feat, some other Power Star feats, etc.

Finally, MFTL+. Your analysis is incredibly incorrect. Firstly, Bowser was not empowered by a Grand Star when performing the feat. Secondly, if he was, Grand Stars don't boost his speed, and Mario still reacts to Bowser's same attacks that tagged Starship Mario. The black hole thing is a major double standard on your part. Bowser being immobilized is the feat that disproves MFTL+ (ever heard of combat speed, btw), yet Mario maneuvering is game mechanics. Finally Mario's speed feat. False equivalency agai with Han Solo, as one, Han Solo is piloting a ship, not himself. And two, that's still an outlier. Mario needs to make it so he doesn't dive headfirst into a planet and flips before he lands, which requires reactions similar to his flight speed.
 
Also Han has a legit FTL feat.


Okay, not legit because it's an outlier, but the feat itself is FTL.
 
You don't even pilot ships in hyperspace in Star Wars, you just set coordinates and travel. It's ridiculous false equivalence.
 
4-A Mario is, honestly, kinda wonky.

"At least High 4-C" has tons of stuff backing it, though.

The 5-B to 5-A Modern Sonic stuff is what he used to be rated as, before I pointed out it was BS in another thread.
 
Peeps need to drop the Magolor and Kirby being 3-B to 3-A issue. Kirby as an outlier is completely fine in my opinion.

Anyway, 4-A Mario is a little wonky I admit. Though honestly I wouldn't know what other tier he'd be.
 
EMagoIorSouI said:
Anyway, 4-A Mario is a little wonky I admit. Though honestly I wouldn't know what other tier he'd be.
Click to expand...


He has lots of "At least High 4-C" stuff, including a Large Star level+ calc for power stars.
 
Not really. It was

A: The power star doing it

B: It moved the stars, not creating them. Still impressive, but I wouldn't call it 4-A.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
4-A Mario is, honestly, kinda wonky.
"At least High 4-C" has tons of stuff backing it, though.

The 5-B to 5-A Modern Sonic stuff is what he used to be rated as, before I pointed out it was BS in another thread.
Click to expand...

"Pointed out it was BS." I haven't seen that thread, so please, enlighten me.
 
The Wright Way said:
I haven't seen The Smashor acting this obviously biased since he tried to downgrade Undertale.
Click to expand...


I just think Mario and Sonic are wanked and unfairly nerfed respectively on this wiki.


And I still think 2-B Undyne the Undying and Mettaton NEO are stupid
 
Azathoth pointed out good things, but i want to say more:

That Chaos Illusion was much weaker than its normal self since what it is said in game is contraddited in what is seen in the game since Shadow oneshotted a much weaker version of himself that was considered equal, even weak resistance fodders can destroy them.

That Eggdragon is much weaker than the original as Implied by Tails and Eggman. Classic Sonic hurted weak glass parts of the Death Egg as the Avatar and Modern Sonic mainly destroyed it, by watching it is seen that Classic Sonic used basic rocks to damage them. Classic Sonic remains 8-A+, also to maintain the scaling.

Ultimate Emerl is High 6-A and was overloading with energy, so is not 5-B since it could not sustain it, Sonic also easily stopped it.

Sonic destroyed Perfect Chaos by hitting its much weaker weakpoints and after that game he regurarly struggled with High 6-A beings. Same deal for Dark Gaia since he damaged his eyes, which are much much weaker than his normal dura.

Mecha Sonic and Imperator Ix are 4-A, not 2-C since they have not showed stuff of this level.

So no Sonic character will be changed.
 
I thought weakspots were agreed to be game mechanics. Perfect Chaos' hide logically should be stronger than Chaos 6's,I think it's arbitrary to just bring those in all of a sudden for reasons to keep them downscaled.Eyes are also one of the most durable body parts IRL,I've seen enough crushed skulls to know that's usually the only thing intact.
 
Sure the power stars can EVENTUALLY become solar systems, but they arn't yet! That's like saying a baby is at the same level of power as an athlete!

The Power Stars as "babies" in Super Mario 64 we're used to create realms with...

A ) A Sun in it, as we see Bob-omb Battlefield has a large visible bright sun just sitting up there with tons of space around it.

B ) A sky full of stars, as Wiggler says in Tiny Huge Island that he enjoys looking up at the stars at night.

C ) Whomp's Fortress can arguably be called a galaxy since the same exact place exists in Mario Galaxy and is referred to as "Throwback Galaxy". This is not to mention that Power Stars don't just become solar systems, they can become galaxies.

As for Antasma, Dreamy Luigi is the only reason Mario was able to beat him. Next!

This is implying that Mario literally had no significance in this game, even though he is able to keep up with all of the enemies that Luigi fights in the game. Dreamy Mario is also fought, so-

King Boo. Oh boy King Boo. I actually have nothing to say, but since from what I can tell the Marioverse's next strongest feats are closer to planet level, it can easily be considered an outlier similar to Kirby and co defeating Magalor.

Okay, so this is the last thing you found that was Multi-Solar System level? I suppose you didn't check long enough...

Here is Paper Mario and a couple others creating a realm with a background full of stars. The only refute to that is that it looks too "cartoonish" and for that reason, shouldn't be accepted as a viable feat, but I really don't see why it's cartoonish look should be a reason. This is a Mario game that we're talking about here, and this is a feat performed by Paper Mario.

Another reason these feats aren't outliers is because all of the other tier 4 feats can be seen as supporting feats.

Here, I'll even try to re-use a feat that's been previously rejected, because I felt like I didn't have enough evidence. I'm not entirely suggesting it would amount to much or be accepted, but I'll show it anyway.

The Secret levels of Super Mario Sunshine were probably created by Bowser Jr. with E. Gadd's brush.

He always knows whenever Mario enters said worlds, there are literally childish patterns floating in the background, and you know, Bowser Jr. is still an immature child. Here, his goop is literally flowing from the Secret Level. Yeah, I know it would be a tier 3 feat. I'm not trying to upgrade to tier 3, I'm just saying that these higher tier feats aren't inconsistent.

Then there is the whole thing about separating all of the Mario Galaxy stuff from everything else, which I really don't get, either. They have tier 3 and tier 2 feats, and I know there is aid behind it, but again, just showing that higher tier feats aren't inconsistent.

Bowser was also going to destroy dreams in Mario Party 5, confirmed by Misstar.

I also know that Culex has been denied of his Universe+ status despite a lot of evidence behind it, but even denying that he is the Master of time and space and controls the beginning and the end of all creation, how can we possibly low-ball that lower than Multi-Solar System level?

The Black Paint that possessed Bowser was used to literally make the night sky, which does have a background full of stars.

Mega Dragon Bowser was also defeated by Mario.

At the very least, I really don't see how 4-A isn't consistent, and with all of these tier 4, tier 3, and tier 2 feats, I don't see how we can just low-ball Mario characters to being consistently and at-best just High 4-C. People will just come to this place and wonder like, "hey, Mario has done stronger stuff, I mean, even look at his Mario Galaxy stuff", and Content Revision threads will be made. What will they be told? "Yeah, those tons of like tier 4-2 feats are just all outliers. Why? They look cartoonish and Mario just shouldn't be that powerful". I'm sorry, but I really don't see it.

I think the Mario profiles should stay 4-A.
 
AD INFINITUM 444 said:
I think Mario should be left alone,The reasoning for Sonic being high 6-A because of game mechanics is a bit unfair.
Click to expand...

It's not about game mechanic, but also story scaling consistency. I'm the one that pushed Sonic to 5-A, now i absolutely disagree with it.
 
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