Maou Gakuin Regeneration Downgrade (High-Godly to Mid-Godly)

[ImmortalDread]

Ask DT what she means with the text because you repeated the same text 1000 times but never give actual explanation.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Ask DT what she means with the text because you repeated the same text 1000 times but never give actual explanation.

The text is self explanatory. Either bring the evidence I asked for, change the HGR standards, or leave. Because right now all you're doing is looking at a very clear explanation and going "nuh uh".

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

This is also the third time you've said you were unfollowing the thread......

When someone mentions you notification still shows your messages. So don't tag me

 

[ImmortalDread]

The text is self explanatory. Either bring the evidence I asked for, change the HGR standards, or leave. Because right now all you're doing is looking at a very clear explanation and going "nuh uh".

Fuji no time for you. You did not explain anything in OP.

@Theglassman12 since it is safe to assume the one who created this exception is DT, do you mind pinging him, so he can explain it with actual explanation and instances

 

[Reiner04]

The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s)

Characters in the MGK can resurrect even after their souls being destroyed using the ingel as was shown in the case of Sasha and misha.

Ingall resurrected the dead by restoring the soul-or, if one looked into the abyss, the source at the root of one's magic-that lingered after death. However, Misha's source had originally been Sasha's. If I used Ingall after she disappeared, the source used for her resurrection would no longer exist.

But if their source is gone, they would no longer be capable of regen or comeback, as source defines their fundamental existence of who they are deeper than body, mind and soul.

It was the truth, but Leorg didn’t seem inclined to believe it. After all, magic is born from each individual’s source. These sources reside within our bodies, beyond our souls, beyond our spirits—deep within the abyss. It’s what makes us who we are. When sources of different classes face each other, fear of the greater source can make one’s magic go berserk.

Destroying source destroys all of their reincarnations at once.

“Do you see? This is your source.”

With my right hand, I drew a magic circle in the air. It was the circle for Vebdoz. As I reached my hand inside the circle, my fingers became stained a deep blac

“Directly affecting one’s source is difficult, but Vebdoz and other such spells make it possible

I scratched the white orb with my nail

“G-Gaaaaaah! Guwaaaaaaaaaaahhh

His screams were louder than the cries of a dying ma

“Now do you understand? Having your source wounded is an agony worse than death. Condensing every imaginable pain in this world into one would still be incomparable. After all, the deaths of your infinite number of future incarnations are occurring all at once
.”n.!”s..”k.ll at once.”

hence as our page says, destroying even more fundamental aspects than soul would qualify, destroying soul doesn't mean anything but destroying source does, all other things are just examples, not limited to them. It seems enough evidence that Type 3 concept that source is of one's existence defines them entirely among all of reincarnations, take it past or future or other. I Disagree as per what our standards says.

 

[Theglassman12]

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara normal members can’t tag staff members btw, just letting you know.

@DontTalkDT Can you elaborate on the high godly regen standards on what would let Type 3 Concept regen be high-godly or mid-godly in comparison to type 2 and 1 concept?

 

[Reiner04]

Also, I would suggest to both sides to not argue needlessly unless you are adding smth new to arguement, keep it readable for everyone.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s)

Characters in the MGK can resurrect even after their souls being destroyed using the ingel as was shown in the case of Sasha and misha.



But if their source is gone, they would no longer be capable of regen or comeback, as source defines their fundamental existence of who they are deeper than body, mind and soul.



Destroying source destroys all of their reincarnations at once.



hence as our page says, destroying even more fundamental aspects than soul would qualify, destroying soul doesn't mean anything but destroying source does, all other things are just examples, not limited to them. It seems enough evidence that Type 3 concept that source is of one's existence defines them entirely among all of reincarnations, take it past or future or other. I Disagree as per what our standards says.

Reiner. You are completely excluding the following lines, which elaborate that type 3 concepts do not qualify by default. I knew all of these scans before making this thread. I know the source is a fundamental aspect of the self. But at the end of the day, it's still a type 3 concept, and has an additional burden of proof placed upon it for HGR, proof which nobody has provided yet.

@Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara normal members can’t tag staff members btw, just letting you know.

@DontTalkDT Can you elaborate on the high godly regen standards on what would let Type 3 Concept regen be high-godly or mid-godly in comparison to type 2 and 1 concept?

i dont remember trying to do that though :v

 

[Reiner04]

type 3 concepts do not qualify by default. I knew all of these scans before making this thread. I know the source is a fundamental aspect of the self. But at the end of the day, it's still a type 3 concept, and has an additional burden of proof placed upon it for HG

What's stopping Type 3 to qualify? Are you saying type 3 to be equal to type 2? No, it wouldn't be possible. All that is written, you need atleast one more even deeper fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul, Which the source is, all others are examples, not limited to them. So unless standards got changed. We can't do anything.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What's stopping Type 3 to qualify? Are you saying type 3 to be equal to type 2? No, it wouldn't be possible. All that is written, you need atleast one more even deeper fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul, Which the source is, all others are examples, not limited to them. So unless standards got changed. We can't do anything.

What's stopping type 3 from qualifying is that the page literally says type 3 doesn't qualify. Whether or not that's valid sin't the issue here; If it's wrong, then change it. But right now the standards are very clear about type 3 not qualifying unless it meets very particular standards; Standards which sources have not been proven to meet.

"High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist."

The fact that I've asked for evidence no less than 5 times now and have gotten 0 evidence every time is probably a sign that said evidence doesn't exist.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Yes. For example, a character who can reform his physical body from his soul would have low-godly. A character who can reform his physical body alone from a concept that exists deeper than the soul would also have low-godly. Two very different scenarios, but both end up with the same degree of regen.

Worst example you used since we are discussing whether reforming your existence while your mind, body and soul got erased and still could regenerate due to an additional fundamental conceptual aspect of existence is one completely different feat (mid-godly), and regenerating after this aspect being destroyed which Anos, Eques and Garham did (which logically speaking in verse a higher type or version of regeneration that author presented) is one complete feat.

It does not even matter which concept type we are discussing they are not even tied to potency or scope, rather its functionality and nature and most significant factor: THE VERSE mechanics.

This is even my main reason of disagreeing here while I agree with CM downgrade you made in that thread.

 

[Reiner04]

along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence,

As I said, all others, take it concept, information or anything, are just examples not limited to them, all you need even more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul which the source is by being deeper than soul and one's fundamental existence. It's standard.

 

[ImmortalDread]

What's stopping type 3 from qualifying is that the page literally says type 3 doesn't qualify.

Wrong, it says it can qualify

Whether or not that's valid sin't the issue here; If it's wrong, then change it.

this is bad refutation. Are you right now abusing the standards and not understanding the theory behind it?

But right now the standards are very clear about type 3 not qualifying unless it meets very particular standards; Standards which Sources have not been proven to meet.

Which is wrong, it can qualify.

"High-Godly: The ability to regenerate after the erasure of body, mind, and soul, along with at least one even more fundamental aspect of a character's existence, such as their place in the narrative, their entire history, or the underlying information (Type 2) or concept(s) (Type 1 or 2, but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them) needed for them to exist."

Can you stop copying and pasting standards and spamming it in the thread as you were refuting?

The fact that I've asked for evidence no less than 5 times now and have gotten 0 evidence every time is probably a sign that said evidence doesn't exist.

Because you are asking if CM type 3 = CM type 2, wtf is this logic?

This is why I need to call DT, because talking with one who has absolutely no idea why the **** the line coming from and just repeat it over and over again as it was a damn permanent never-misinterpreted rule is amusing to say.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Worst example you used since we are discussing whether reforming your existence while your mind, body and soul got erased and still could regenerate due to an additional fundamental conceptual aspect of existence is one completely different feat (mid-godly), and regenerating after this aspect being destroyed which Anos, Eques and Garham did (which logically speaking in verse a higher type or version of regeneration that author presented)

It does not even matter which concept type we are discussing they are not even tied to potency or scope, rather its functionality and nature and most significant factor: THE VERSE mechanics.

This is even my main reason of disagreeing here while I agree with CM downgrade you made in that thread.

So what is the main verse mechanic that makes source regeneration harder than type 1/2 concept regeneration? Can you provide scans of this? Because until you do so, sources do not meet the requirements for high-godly and it will get removed. Instead of refusing to read the HGR description, you could still make valid arguments in this thread by providing the evidence I've asked for too many times now.

As I said, all others, take it concept, information or anything, are just examples not limited to them, all you need even more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul which the source is by being deeper than soul and one's fundamental existence. It's standard.

"but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them"

Read this, and then read it again, and then I want you to read it one more time. If, after that, you still insist that type 3 is HGR by default, then I don't even know what to say.

Wrong, it says it can qualify

Which is wrong, it can qualify.

Yes. It CAN. Not that it DOES, but CAN qualify SO LONG AS CERTAIN CONDITIONS ARE MET. Has Maou Gakuin met those conditions? Yes or no?

this is bad refutation. Are you right now abusing the standards and not understanding the theory behind it?

Simply quoting the standards and saying a verse isn't meeting them isn't "abusing the standards".

Can you stop copying and pasting standards and spamming it in the thread as you were refuting?

I will do so when you understand what the standards are even trying to say. Because right now I feel like this is bordering on willful ignorance and stonewalling.

Because you are asking if CM type 3 = CM type 2, wtf is this logic?

...No, what the ****? I'm only asking for them to be compared in a single aspect: Are they both equally hard to regenerate from? Every other aspect, from range, to how they govern things, to where they exist, is totally irrelevant; It is literally just about regeneration.

 

[Planck69]

Like it or not, the standard is there and it's completely valid to downgrade a verse if it doesn't qualify. So, let's either wait for DontTalkDT to show up or actually post any evidence that shows the regeneration in Maou Gakuin meets the standards.

 

[Reiner04]

but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them"

Read this, and then read it again, and then I want you to read it one more time. If, after that, you still insist that type 3 is HGR by default, then I don't even know what to say.

What's the proof that if the verse has Type 3 concept then it would be more fundamental than the soul? Saying that it's Type 3 so it doesn't qualify doesn't makes sense. I argue it being concept or not doesn't even matter if source qualifies by being even more deeper fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul.

 

[Reiner04]

Like it or not, the standard is there and it's completely valid to downgrade a verse if it doesn't qualify. So, let's either wait for DontTalkDT to show up or actually post any evidence that shows the regeneration in Maou Gakuin meets the standards.

The source is ones more and deeper fundamental existence than soul, even if soul gets destroyed one can comeback by ingel but if the source gets destroyed, they can never. It meets the standard if I've read correct.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

What's the proof that if the verse has Type 3 concept then it would be more fundamental than the soul? Saying that it's Type 3 so it doesn't qualify doesn't makes sense. I argue it being concept or not doesn't even matter if source qualifies by being even more deeper fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul.

The reading comprehension on this site has hit rock ******* bottom.

Like it or not, the standard is there and it's completely valid to downgrade a verse if it doesn't qualify. So, let's either wait for DontTalkDT to show up or actually post any evidence that shows the regeneration in Maou Gakuin meets the standards.

Agreed. Although, if anyone else participated in the CRT that made the "type 3 =/= HGR' standard a thing, they should probably also be called here (assuming it wasn't always like that).

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The source is ones more and deeper fundamental existence than soul, even if soul gets destroyed one can comeback by ingel but if the source gets destroyed, they can never. It meets the standard if I've read correct.

You haven't.

 

[Reiner04]

Anyway, I've said all that I should have.

 

[ImmortalDread]

So what is the main verse mechanic that makes source regeneration harder than type 1/2 concept regeneration?

source regeneration is legit being done after your mind, soul and body being erased while REGENERATING from source destruction (SOURCE is being destroyed) and YET regenerate from it? How the **** is this not the exact HGR type?

Can you provide scans of this? Because until you do so, sources do not meet the requirements for high-godly and it will get removed.

-can you provide sources?
-Either if you did, it does not qualify

Are you reading what are you trying to say?

Instead of refusing to read the HGR description, you could still make valid arguments in this thread by providing the ev

I am reading it perfectly, hell i can explain it and not spamming and copying and pasting every time spoke like you as you are robot.

idence I've asked for too many times now.


"but only very rarely 3, if there is strong evidence of being similar to the former types in terms of how hard it is to regenerate from them"

it says it can qualify but rare as other fictional feats.

Read this, and then read it again, and then I want you to read it one more time. If, after that, you still insist that type 3 is HGR by default, then I don't even know what to say.

Your premise is it can't qualify while the standards clearly declares its exception due it's rarity does not refute it won't qualify.

Yes. It CAN. Not that it DOES, but CAN qualify SO LONG AS CERTAIN CONDITIONS ARE MET. Has Maou Gakuin met those conditions? Yes or no?

It can qualify under circumstances, the outcome is it can qualify if verse explain it as it do.

Simply quoting the standards and saying a verse isn't meeting them isn't "abusing the standards".

Or you can't refute, so you copy and paste standards because you think people can't read or know how standards works.

I will do so when you understand what the standards are even trying to say. Because right now I feel like this is bordering on willful ignorance and stonewalling.

You created this thread with spite intentions because staff instead were neutral in your thread. So play better.

...No, what the ****? I'm only asking for them to be compared in a single aspect: Are they both equally hard to regenerate from? Every other aspect, from range, to how they govern things, to where they exist, is totally irrelevant; It is literally just about regeneration.

Source destruction regeneration is literally limited to a a ******* 4 strong characters in MG, no one ******* can regenerate from source destruction because this is the true death is coming from?

Wtf u are now downgrading a ******* feat and never read the novel or story but when Elde downgrades ur verse u tell him (u don't know anything about the verse)????

 

[ImmortalDread]

Like it or not, the standard is there and it's completely valid to downgrade a verse if it doesn't qualify. So, let's either wait for DontTalkDT to show up or actually post any evidence that shows the regeneration in Maou Gakuin meets the standards.

Did you ping him?

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Yeah idk how to argue this point anymore, you people are exhausting.

Staff vote is 2-0 (@Planck69 & @DarkDragonMedeus), so I'll just wait for further input or real arguments.

 

[ImmortalDread]

- ya idk what to argue anymore because I could not refute her after she told me that I don't know that source destruction regeneration is the HARD to regenerate and only 4 people has done it as far because when source is destroyed, it's true death for each individual. (Fuji)

Ya Fuji, we saw your debate tactics.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

- ya idk what to argue anymore because I could not refute her after she told me that I don't know that source destruction regeneration is the HARD to regenerate and only 4 people has done it as far because when source is destroyed, it's true death for each individual. (Fuji)

Ya Fuji, we saw your debate tactics.

This thread gonna be meaningless so don't bother here. Come to this upgrade thread.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/upgrade-source-root-origin-in-maou-gakuin-to-type-1-concept-again-pt-2.151092/

 

[1st_Virtue_of_Pure_Void]

This thread gonna be meaningless so don't bother here. Come to this upgrade thread.

https://vsbattles.com/threads/upgrade-source-root-origin-in-maou-gakuin-to-type-1-concept-again-pt-2.151092/

...spiteful

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

...spiteful

If you really know Tastumi creating that thread before Fuji created Downgrade thread you would already know who made it spite.

Tatsumi created upgrade thread even before Fuji created Downgrade thread so it's Fuji made the spite.

Tatsumi thread created one week before this thread which is created today. So don't call it spite without even knowing who is at fault.

 

[ImmortalDread]

The word is thrown without its relevance.

 

[EldemadeDityjon]

The word is thrown without its relevance.

Yeah it's sad Fuji Supporters who agreed here thinking Tatsumi thread is spite when Tastumi created the topic even before Fuji created Downgrade thread for source.

 

[Planck69]

Did you ping him?

Glass did earlier in the thread.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Like it or not, the standard is there and it's completely valid to downgrade a verse if it doesn't qualify. So, let's either wait for DontTalkDT to show up or actually post any evidence that shows the regeneration in Maou Gakuin meets the standards.

In case you are agreeing here

You are agreeing that regenerating from source is mid-godly (which is already fine) and regenerating after source destruction (which meets the definition of HGR) is also "mid-godly"?

Don't you find it a bit contradiction? You are equalizing two different feats with two different mechanics into "mid godly?".

I mean the argument of "how hard is it to regenerate" is meaningless when first of all, only 4 characters done it, second of all, source destruction is already the "real true death" for each individual, and yet only 4 characters who defy logics still could regenerate it from it?

I don't care about the concept type of source, I am literally talking about a fact that you guys thinking vsb labeling source as "less fundamental" will refute the solid proof of source is fundamental in verse?

No one actually can regenerate from source destruction because once source is destroyed, this is "true death" in MG.

Now I want you only specific to answer this. Because I find it strange, at least think from the story perspective.

It's like equalizing regenerating from wounds and regenerating yourself from nothing.

 

[Planck69]

In case you are agreeing here

You are agreeing that regenerating from source is mid-godly (which is already fine) and regenerating after source destruction (which meets the definition of HGR) is also "mid-godly"?

If that is the standard then sure. At most it'd be a deeper level of regeneration than standard.

Don't you find it a bit contradiction? You are equalizing two different feats with two different mechanics into "mid godly?".

It's not as though the regeneration classifications are cast iron ratings. Sometimes, scenario's in fiction can allow for situations outside what we're used to to occur.

I mean the argument of "how hard is it to regenerate" is meaningless when first of all, only 4 characters done it, second of all, source destruction is already the "real true death" for each individual, and yet only 4 characters who defy logics still could regenerate it from it?

I'm not quite seeing how relevant the number of characters who do can regenerate is. I suppose any information on these people's regeneration would help your case though.

I don't care about the concept type of source, I am literally talking about a fact that you guys thinking vsb labeling source as "less fundamental" will refute the solid proof of source is fundamental in verse?

If you think it's not sound reasoning on the page then be my guest and revise the page and standard.

Because that's really the crux of it. Regardless of the qualification itself (I'm quite ambivalent on that), the current wiki standards disallow it without further information to support it, in this case being the difficulty of regeneration being stated or implied.

 

[Reiner04]

If you think it's not sound reasoning on the page then be my guest and revise the page and standard.

Then does the page saying regenerating from one even more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul qualifies is wrong?

 

[Planck69]

Then does the page saying regenerating from one even more fundamental aspects of one's existence than soul qualifies is wrong?

No, but it also clarifies that regeneration from a Type 3 concept needs further information to it. It's not that complex an issue.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

Reiner, please just leave. Your continued ignorance of what the standards actually are is bordering on stonewalling at this point. You know as good as I do that whether or not sources are "fundamental" is not the basis of this downgrade.

 

[Reiner04]

No, but it also clarifies that regeneration from a Type 3 concept needs further information to it. It's not that complex an issue.

It's sure says Type 3 rarely qualifies, not that it doesn't. If it's regeneration lvl is same as of Type 2.

Now, if source by being more fundamental aspects of one's existence is high godly then how it is inferior to regen from type 2? Is there any proof regarding it being inferior from Type 2 for it to be Downgraded as in Type 3?

 

[ImmortalDread]

If that is the standard then sure. At most it'd be a deeper level of regeneration than standard.

But how? The source is literally not "body, soul and mind", it's additional fundamental conceptual aspect of individual's existence, while you can theoretically speaking, only live with source with no mind, body and soul (and there is character in MG who actually exist like that)

It's not as though the regeneration classifications are cast iron ratings. Sometimes, scenario's in fiction can allow for situations outside what we're used to to occur.

Got it

I'm not quite seeing how relevant the number of characters who do can regenerate is. I suppose any information on these people's regeneration would help your case though.

Because regeneration from source destruction is like being above all laws. No one actually can do it. It's not hard to regenerate, it's logically (according to verse mechanics) impossible.

If you think it's not sound reasoning on the page then be my guest and revise the page and standard.

The standard is perfectly fine, why everyone ignore the most premise of standard is (you regenerate from mind, body, soul and one additional fundamental aspect of existence).

Because that's really the crux of it. Regardless of the qualification itself (I'm quite ambivalent on that), the current wiki standards disallow it without further information to support it, in this case being the difficulty of regeneration being stated or implied.

The feat exists. I can't understand how both feats be in the same level. It literally ignores the story.

 

[Reiner04]

Reiner, please just leave. Your continued ignorance of what the standards actually are is bordering on stonewalling at this point. You know as good as I do that whether or not sources are "fundamental" is not the basis of this downgrade.

The source qualifies by its very definition unless there is a proof that it being Type 3 proves that regeneration from it is inferior to Type 2. Which there isn't.

 

[Mad_Dog_of_Fujiwara]

The source qualifies by definition unless there is a proof that it being Type 3 proves that regeneration from it is inferior to Type 2. Which there isn't.

You got this backwards. It's you who needs to prove that type 3 regen is comparable to type 2. I don't need to prove a negative here.

 

[Reiner04]

You got this backwards. It's you who needs to prove that type 3 regen is comparable to type 2. I don't need to prove a negative here.

I proved source is even more fundamental aspects of one's existence so High Godly regen. Now if one want to use Type 3 arguement which doesn't state it cannot qualify, they need to prove regen from it is inferior to our standardized Type 2 regen.