PrinceofPein
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In this thread, 2-A MGK was passed again, even though it was previously removed in this thread. It was the holidays and I was a bit busy to argue properly.
The reasons were the same: Naphta, the god of the future, has the power to see countless futures and restrict the future to whatever she wants using the Kandaquizorte. They claimed since the Kandaquizorte is said to be the shape of the world, it must contain these futures already as a 2-A multiverse infinitely branching out. I.e. An ability that allows you to see countless futures and pick and choose which future you want is turned into a big deal to grant 2-A. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; TLDR: there is no proof of an infinitely branching multiverse in the whole work like it is claimed, just a single statement taken out of context on purpose and described to mean what it is not.
Anyway, here is the full explanation of the whole thing and my argument. Since, It feels like this is just an issue with English understanding, so I will define these words again.
Future: time regarded as still to come. (a period of time following the moment of speaking or writing)
Possibility: a thing that may happen or be the case. (A likelihood)
Probability: the quality or state of being probable (Probable: likely to happen or be the case.)
Happen: take place; occur
Reality: the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
I feel odd having to argue for something as simple as this, but I guess nothing is ever simple.
The text explicitly refers to "possibilities" rather than physical alternate worlds. This implies that these are potential outcomes, not existing entities.
Mechanics of Actualization
The crystal serves as a medium through which Naphta can actualize a specific possibility. This process implies that the possibility doesn't exist in a physical sense until it is materialized in the real world.
Analogy with Probability
Multiple outcomes are possible but only one becomes real when "observed" or chosen. This reinforces the idea that these are conceptual futures, not physical ones.
The text describes the crystal world as "made entirely of crystals," emphasizing its artificial nature. This suggests that it is not an alternate universe but rather a simulated environment created by Naphta's power. Even people(humans) in it are made from crystals, meaning again, this is not the real world like the supporters claim since everything is made up of crystals.
The crystal was referred to as not real but rather restricted world and the real world was still called the "real world"
Also, the phrase "holds the shape of the world" refers to possibilities rather than an existing, tangible world. As it is talking about the countless futures the world could have. The Kandaquizorte has the power to shape the world's future.
The fact that the Kandaquizorte’s world is made up of possibilities is further buttressed by this text
Nafta is the god of the order of the future, and the future is filled with numerous possibilities from where she can pick the future she wants. So is it possible for these futures to exist? Yes, they can become the next thing that happens. Are these futures already physically playing out in a different timeline? not at all.
These futures are not in her mind; there is an order that allows for numerous possible futures, and she gets to pick any she wants.
unless she picks one, none of the future are actualized
The crystal is a vessel for these possibilities, which are potential outcomes rather than pre-existing worlds. Naphta's domain, made entirely of crystals, is a constructed environment used materialize these possibilities. These factors collectively support the conclusion that the crystal contains abstract possibilities that can be made real by Naphta, not physical alternate realities.
Hence, 2-A for an ability to see possible futures and pick your desired outcome is nonsensical and wrong, as that is simply precog and probability manipulation. All characters that was upgraded to 2-A should be downgraded by low 2-C.
All scans were gotten from Chapter 17 and 18 of Volume 6, anyone who is interested in reading it, I will gladly provide the entire chapters, they are about 6 pages
Agree: @Planck69, @DarkDragonMedeus
Disagree:
Neutral:
The reasons were the same: Naphta, the god of the future, has the power to see countless futures and restrict the future to whatever she wants using the Kandaquizorte. They claimed since the Kandaquizorte is said to be the shape of the world, it must contain these futures already as a 2-A multiverse infinitely branching out. I.e. An ability that allows you to see countless futures and pick and choose which future you want is turned into a big deal to grant 2-A. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence; TLDR: there is no proof of an infinitely branching multiverse in the whole work like it is claimed, just a single statement taken out of context on purpose and described to mean what it is not.
Anyway, here is the full explanation of the whole thing and my argument. Since, It feels like this is just an issue with English understanding, so I will define these words again.
Future: time regarded as still to come. (a period of time following the moment of speaking or writing)
Possibility: a thing that may happen or be the case. (A likelihood)
Probability: the quality or state of being probable (Probable: likely to happen or be the case.)
Happen: take place; occur
Reality: the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them.
I feel odd having to argue for something as simple as this, but I guess nothing is ever simple.
Point 1: The crystal is what contains these countless possibilities and can materialize them, but the thing is,
Terminology of "Possibilities" in TextThe text explicitly refers to "possibilities" rather than physical alternate worlds. This implies that these are potential outcomes, not existing entities.
And the phrase "Yet to pass" suggests these possibilities are abstract constructs waiting to be actualized
Naphta's ability to "choose" or "restrict" futures also suggests these possibilities are simply one of the many possible futures rather than independent realities already playing out.
"One more possible shape of the world" Again, these are all possibilities, and the crystal can actualize them and create a world made of crystals.
Mechanics of Actualization
The crystal serves as a medium through which Naphta can actualize a specific possibility. This process implies that the possibility doesn't exist in a physical sense until it is materialized in the real world.
If the possibilities were pre-existing worlds, there would be no need for a process of materialization. Hence the "make that happen" meaning something that does not exist and yet to occur.
Analogy with Probability
Multiple outcomes are possible but only one becomes real when "observed" or chosen. This reinforces the idea that these are conceptual futures, not physical ones.
Naphta’s power in selecting and materializing futures further supports the argument that these possibilities are not already tangible. Her power acts as the catalyst for turning abstract potential into physical reality. As it is said here, a possible future it is a possibility that may happen, hence a probability, but Naphta has the power to make that possibility a reality
Point 2:
Nature of the Crystal DomainThe text describes the crystal world as "made entirely of crystals," emphasizing its artificial nature. This suggests that it is not an alternate universe but rather a simulated environment created by Naphta's power. Even people(humans) in it are made from crystals, meaning again, this is not the real world like the supporters claim since everything is made up of crystals.
Also, it was directly stated, "A world created by......." If it was a world already playing out and existing as its own physical reality, it would not need to be created again, and it sure as hell will not be made of crystals. This further buttresses my point 1, which is that these worlds are possible futures that have not yet been materialized.
The fact that Naphta can control and manipulate the worst possible outcomes within the crystal highlights the synthetic nature of this domain. As she can edit what she wants, as she sees fit much like restricting the worst possible outcomes in every scenario. The use of crystals as the primary material within the domain is, reinforcing the idea that this is a crafted, non-natural space.
The crystal was referred to as not real but rather restricted world and the real world was still called the "real world"
Also, the phrase "holds the shape of the world" refers to possibilities rather than an existing, tangible world. As it is talking about the countless futures the world could have. The Kandaquizorte has the power to shape the world's future.
More proof:
The text explicitly states that the "one more possible shape the world" refers to possibility, confirming it is not an actual, physical reality but an abstract representation of what could exist.
The fact that the Kandaquizorte’s world is made up of possibilities is further buttressed by this text
The Kandaquizorte’s world contains the world possibilities, but these are simply possible futures that are not yet real or actualized.
Closing Summary:
Until you cast the die, rolling a 1 or 2 is not actualized until you cast the die, just a possible future, which is precisely what this is.
Nafta is the god of the order of the future, and the future is filled with numerous possibilities from where she can pick the future she wants. So is it possible for these futures to exist? Yes, they can become the next thing that happens. Are these futures already physically playing out in a different timeline? not at all.
These futures are not in her mind; there is an order that allows for numerous possible futures, and she gets to pick any she wants.
unless she picks one, none of the future are actualized
The crystal is a vessel for these possibilities, which are potential outcomes rather than pre-existing worlds. Naphta's domain, made entirely of crystals, is a constructed environment used materialize these possibilities. These factors collectively support the conclusion that the crystal contains abstract possibilities that can be made real by Naphta, not physical alternate realities.
Hence, 2-A for an ability to see possible futures and pick your desired outcome is nonsensical and wrong, as that is simply precog and probability manipulation. All characters that was upgraded to 2-A should be downgraded by low 2-C.
All scans were gotten from Chapter 17 and 18 of Volume 6, anyone who is interested in reading it, I will gladly provide the entire chapters, they are about 6 pages
Agree: @Planck69, @DarkDragonMedeus
Disagree:
Neutral:
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