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Major Zelda Revisions II: Electric Boogaloo

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Twilight Realm having no sun is the only reason the Master Sword glows with Sol in the Twilight Realm. Also, I'm getting tired of having to bring up Dark649's scan again, but the only reason the "Teleporting to Hyrule castle" was retconned or considered contradictory to what happened in game was due to the Sol Orbs glow.

But at the same time, that should also address the elephant in the room. The absence of the Sun in the Twilight Realm is the only reason the Master Sword glows. You can see it stop glowing every single time you leave the Twilight Realm and return to the World of Light, and returning to the Twilight Realm makes it glow again. If Zant actually created a sun, then the Master Sword should have stopped glowing.

Also, I really didn't want to be this blunt, but I'm starting to think Hero Mode is probably Non-Canon. To be frank, it's kind of the same boat as the Hero's New Clothes from Wind Waker. Not to mention, it's really weird for them to just add a white glow in the yellow Sun based on one specific game mode. Not to mention, even the creators don't seem to know what they're doing and that goes without saying.
 
The absence of the sun can't be the only reason the sword glows, if that was the case the sword would be glowing at night, or anytime the sun's light doesn't reach it. What I took away is that the Master Sword glows because it's in the same realm as the Sols, and they resonate.
 
The sun is technically still present at night; the sun's light bounces from the moon's and still produces some light on the Earth.
 
Actually it was cause of several things, first was the contradictory thing in of itself, second was they couldn't find the official english translation to see if that was legit, and third the evidence I presented myself where Zant takes you to area where you fought Yeeta yet it's fully frozen yet thawed.

That's... not because of the sun whatsoever. It's became the light realm doesn't have Sol, also your technically still present argument quite frankly made no sense. Not only do I doubt most developers think of that and if you were to ask any person they would say the same thing "the sun isn't out at night" but the moon's light is nowherre nearly enough light to block away sol from the master sword if this was the case. So no, the master sword shouldn't have "stopped glowing" solely due to a sun being there, this is complete headcanon.

That sounds like a personal belief. Objectively disprove Hero Mode being canon. Why is that weird? They just impleneted sun nothing implies they don't know what they're doing, this last refute makes no sense and just sounds like a half-baked attempt at removing a mode so you can go back to arguing "there is no sun". Unless there's an official rule on this site that we don't use the hard mode of games, most games Hard Modes supply more info into a game and give you more insight so they should almost always be the defninitive version. The Hero's new clothes are second quest items, they in no way correlate to a hard mode whatsoever.
 
Hero mode is in the same boat as second quest. Also, don't pull the headcanon card when that guidebook is still the only thing that's actually has a statement for how Zant's ability during the boss fight works. The only counter argument was the whole Sol Orb stuff effecting the Master Sword. Also, it's stated the Twilight Realm doesn't even have light in general aside from the Sol Orbs; that's the reason Master Sword glows. The World of Light also has the Sun, the Moon, and Light Spirits which Twilight Realm has none of that at all; that's why Master Sword glows and becomes light.

Blizzeta thawing proves that phase 5 of Zant is not the exact same location yes, but it doesn't disprove that it's the case for phase 6 being teleportation. The Sol Orb is still the only thing that refutes that bit. And it's common sense that if Zant were to create a sun, the Master Sword should have stopped glowing. The only counter argument for the sword still glowing would be to say that sword still glowing during the battle with Zant is a game mechanic, but that would in turn backfire and not disprove the source from Nintendo of Europe with an accurate translation suggesting that phase 6 was an act of teleportation.

So all in all, the sun appearing in Hero Mode being non-canon and them still being in the Twilight Realm sounds like the most logical conclusion. Also, it is possibly to only reality warp a country without warping moons or stars; that actually happens quite often in fiction.
 
It's not on the same boat as the second quest whatsoever. Hero Mode is a hard mode of Zelda games, Second Quest is playing Zelda with differences. The only similarity you can give it is that in some Zelda games it's what's unlocked after you finish the game but that doesn't make it any similar to second quest. No, I'll pull the headcanon card gladly when I see a headcanon. The guidebook isn't officially translated and is contradicted. In-game > Guidebook. That's... not the only counter. I've literally given you the second counter to that. The reason the master sword glows is because it absorbs sol orbs and is infused with light, sol isn't in the world of light this doesn't debunk anything.

DDM, you cannot hope to tell me that you think this is a reasonable refute. So once again, would you like to explain why Zant teleported everywhere else except for that one place, and prove that there's a room randomly full of thick ice in the Twilight Realm that looks exactly like Yeeta's boss room? That's not common sense whatsoever. The sun is not the reason the MS stops glowing it's because sol are only within the twilight realm.

No it's not no-canon whatsoevver you can't make an object non-canon just because you don't want it to be there nor is it not the most logical solution. I actually never said it wasn't nor implied that so but it's clear Zant warped more then just the country with the several statements made by Midna of what he did to the realm.

Your refutes are looking borderline desperate to be blunt.
 
You accuse me of headcanon despite the fact that you're refutes are arguably just as much if not more headcanon. And I did not say I agree with that guide being teleportation, it's just a side argument. And yes, the only reaso why the Master Sword glows in the Twilight Realm is because of the absence of light. Which disproves why there should even be a sun during that battle with Zant to begin with.

Secondary Canon > than an assumption if the primary canon literally has zero explanation for how Zant's feat works. It still has much stronger canonicity than Zelda wiki. Anyway, I'm not even agreeing with that guidebook anymore solely because of the Sol Orb lore, which also debunks any star creation feat fully. Look at the Holodeck example mentioned on the previous thread; that's en example of the ground being effected and the sky changing in appearance despite the stars not being real. Also looking at the pocket reality thread again, there do exist pocket realities stated to be planet sized despite the image of stars; which we consider those stars not real.

It isn't "Because I say so", multiple other users said they agree with Tier 4 not being legit later on because of that. And it's not desperate; you're forgetting the fact that I too am a Zelda fan who would like to see everyone get upgraded, but facts come before personal preference. Also, Real Cal Howard says he's going to come here with his ultimate counter argument eventually.

Lastly, circular arguments are really not going to get us anywhere.
 
I'm only replying to this because I was told I should come back in this thread.

What I meant was that by saying they were conspiracy strawmans, claiming I harassed you, etc. it didn't help the state of the thread. I'm not saying you went aggressive, but it doesn't mean there wasn't an equal burden on your behalf as well.

I wasn't shouting at users, I was upfront with what I mean, there's a difference. I wasn't cussing excessively for it to be a problem, there are people who do that on threads and nothing ever gets said about it. Even then, I'm rather sure FANDOM has put a filter block on certain words of vulgarity which wouldn't be allowed here otherwise, meaning everything I've said is technically fine. I said I doubt your as knowledgeable as you proclaim, I never asserted it as a genuine fact. And realistically, that isn't a fault to claim. If someone were to be arguing Castlevania lore incorrectly for example, saying the Belmonts are just humans by themselves and the whip is the pure power only, that would be incorrect when there are multiple statements otherwise contradicting what they are trying to postulate, in which you can logically assume they're not very knowledgeable in it. The only thing that might be wrong here is my application, but what I said isn't necessarily anything bad.

I'm not really saying you're not doing your job though my dude, I was mainly just saying that there are better ways this could've been worked out and I think that's something we can both agree to.

I don't mean to derail, but I'm defending and trying to compromise to ease tension between us. I have no ill will towards you or anyone else opposing the downgrade and I apologize if it came off that way. I hope we can stop discussing this after this reply though as another reply is redundant and derailing past this.
 
Most of this is just repeating yourself ad naeseum.

What? What did I claim here that's remotely headcanon? Claiming that Hero Mode isn't second quest despite that being objectively true since it doesn't have the name "Second quest" nor acts exactly like a second quest? A side argument that has several glaring flaws and you've been trying to use apart of your argument, wonderr why I'd logically assume you'd agree to it. You're just claiming this now with no basis. Prove it's due to an absence of light when the master sword glows literally due to absorbing sols.

That would only wwork if the secondary canon isn't outright contradicted by several reasonings, so no this claim has no basis. Where was it remotely claimed Zelda wiki has more canoncity and where was that remotely implied? You're attempting to grab arguments never made. Sols don't debunk any star creation feat show objective proof or I have no reason to even listen to this. Clearly you didn't read where I said, "I actually never said it wasn't nor implied that so but it's clear Zant warped more then just the country with the several statements made by Midna of what he did to the realm." You repeated a point not disagreed upon by anyone, yes you can warp just a country or ground, that's not the case here and we've supplied plenty of reasoning why. You just made baseless claims or assumptions over your refutes and tried to continously attempt to use "oh well Zant could of just teleported to an area in the twilight realm that's covered in ice". How is that last part at all relevant? Objectively prove Twilight Realm is only a planet in size without trying to use a wiki link.

This last part quite frankly doesn't make a lick of goddamn sense. That's literally the only reason you can have for the sun being non-canon it being in Hero Mode doesn't make it non-canon so what else argument do you have? How is multiple other users agreeing tier 4 isn't legit the least bit relevant? A lot of them went back to being neutral/agreeing that it's a legitimate sun. Literally no other user accept you tried to make an object in the sky non-canon. It is desperate, you being a Zelda fan is completely irrelevant, you can be a fan of a series and completely disagree with someone's tiering strongly. There's a lot of Mario fans that refuse to believe he's any higher then buildin, are they suddenly not fans anymore? No, because vs debating and being a fan of a series don't always need to correlate into "this person will accept them however high". I also point out the case of "actions louder then words" as your actions greatly go against your wwords of "would like to see everyone get upgraded" because nothing you listed here or in the previous thread is remotely fact. The entirety of thiss thread has been subjective/opinions so you cannot make the claim "facts take over" becasue no fact has been had n this thread. Alright, that's nice. I'll be glad to refute his counter argument too.

I will keep arguing my defense until you either: A. Come to an agreement.

B. Give me something that would give me reason to believe your defense.

C. Agree with my defense.

Other then that I will continue with my defense.
 
@Inverted Tempest, I understand that. And notice I didn't have a vendetta, nor do I think you're that bad; thank you for being more sincere with me. Though, I did still feel lightly harassed due to having reading 10 paragraph posts where most of them were just requotes, and I was in the middle of other discussions which some did involved actual harassment. I do apologise for letting my anxiety/stress of constant multitasking get the better of me, but I'll move on.

Anyway @Giver. It was never explained explicitly how Zant's ability to revive the 5 previous boss and/or mini boss fights actually works; meaning it is 100% left to the gamer's imagination outside of secondary sources. In concept, using illusion, teleportation, reality warping, or pocket reality creation are all equally assumptive. But I'll explain the differences in the next paragraph.

Now the guidebook that was translated says that Zant teleported them to Hyrule Castle, which is never directly explained in game, but also doesn't directly explain anything else. But that is refuted simply due to the Sol Orbs. Now the important questions are the when, where and why does the Master Sword glow. It is because of the Sol Orbs being absorbed that the Master Sword glows, but it doesn't glow 24/7 or everywhere, it only glows in the Twilight Realm. But why is that the only place it glows? It's because the Twilight Realm has no light and this the Sols in the Master Sword activate. It is directly stated by Midna that the two Sol orbs are the only sources of light in the Twilight Realm. Either Zant creating the sun should have made the Master Sword stop glowing, or the Master Sword should continue glowing even in Hyrule.

I'm not the only one who's repeating myself; and I only repeat myself if I have to. You're still repeating the same claims about details that can't go both ways; and there's also no proof that Hero Mode is the primary canon; if anything, normal mode is do to graphics matching the actual statements unlike Hero Mode. Also, you do realize hypocrisy is bad thing; calling someone desperate while showing signs of desperacy isn't helping the cause.

@Oblivion Lightning, yeah I hear you. And Cal knows better than anyone that it's extremely difficult to upgrade Zelda, just like it also is to upgrade Kirby; because Azathoth or Matt always have something to say that other staff members then say they make sense. 3-A or Low 2-C Complete Triforce is the big one especially.
 
Ok, that's nice, you're outright repeating yourself no DDM, they're not equally assumptive. Not at all. Illusion takes far more assumptions due to how the battle works. Teleportation requires you to outright ignore lore and assume there's just some place that lok magically the same as Yeeta's boss room before it thawed. Pocket Reality and Reality Warping take the least amount of assumptions.


Now the guidebook that was translated says that Zant teleported them to Hyrule Castle, which is never directly explained in game, but also doesn't directly explain anything else. But that is refuted simply due to the Sol Orbs. Now the important questions are the when, where and why does the Master Sword glow. It is because of the Sol Orbs being absorbed that the Master Sword glows, but it doesn't glow 24/7 or everywhere, it only glows in the Twilight Realm. But why is that the only place it glows? It's because the Twilight Realm has no light and this the Sols in the Master Sword activate. It is directly stated by Midna that the two Sol orbs are the only sources of light in the Twilight Realm. Either Zant creating the sun should have made the Master Sword stop glowing, or the Master Sword should continue glowing even in Hyrule. It's refuted by the Sol Orbs and Yeeta's boss room. Don't ignore that part. You've already admitted the master sword glows due to the sol orbs, the entire reason it only glows in the twilight realm is because that's where the sol orbs come from or else dark dungeons in TP should allow the MS to glow as there's no light there. You're making assumptions once again. Objectively prove with an outright quote in-verse that this is the case. The MS doesn't continue to glow in Hyrule for the reasons I've explained. Midna never states it's the only source of light, she statess it's like the sun from our world(which Triforce argued with a mistranslation mind you) and that the're like suns. But she never states it's the only source of light.


You know the reason I'm repeating the same claims? Because every claim you've made literally doesn't debunk or refute my previous point. Hence locking yourself into repetition. Hero Mode is the hard mode, I've already explained that typically the hard mode/new game+ is used on this site for other profiles, to deny Hero Mode here just because you don't want the sun to be in the sky is pure double standards. Where does Hero Mode not match this? Are you talking about the sun that we've been arguing Zant creates? Cause if so no, that's nowhere near a graphic not matching. Why is hypocrisy being a bad time relevant? I actually never called you desperate I said your comments look borderline desperate, and no I'm not showing signs of desperacy objectively. This is borderline a "no u" to even use.
 
New Game+ is not a double standard, it is simply a case by case scenario. Chrono Trigger is one of the few games where New Game+ is considered canon due to the cosmology that Chrono Trigger has an infinite number of space time continuums; the Zelda timeline only has three in which Twilight Princess is specifically only part of one.

The Yeta example could is literally just a minor detail that could easily be another thing the developers don't really pay attention to. Also, going inside Dark Caves still takes place in a world where light exists; it's not the twilight territory that turns Link into a wolf or various civilians into ghosts. The Sun also never shines during those time since the country sized fields block the sunlight and prevent light from showing. The Master Sword shines in the Twilight Realm because the Twilight Realm has no source of light at all period without the Sol Orbs.

Pocket Reality is the most assumptive one yet because it assumes a new ability Zant never demonstrated at all period. And not only that, it would imply they left the Twilight Realm leaving the Master Sword any reason to continue glowing and especially with the "A sun" present. Also, there are 3 versions where the Sun was not there during the battle of Zant Vs only one "special version" that does. Also, Zant whenever he did Reality Warping, it was usually only on roughly a country wide scale; he warps roughly 1/6th of Hyrule at a time early on.
 
Until someone can prove that Zant did not warp the realm and it's just an illusion I'm still supporting it.Nothing above shows or proves that he didn't warp it and is just trying to stretch to form a counter
 
Nothing proves that he did warp everything either; again, Cal and possibly someone like Azathoth will say something eventually.
 
Actually a lot proves he warped it, nothing at all proves illusion it's an utright assumption and his illusion creation show is nowhere near that scale while his reality warping has been shown on that scale. Sixo showed in an earlier thread how big he warped it, but even going by your assumption, illusion creation based on duplication has far less convincing evidence then reality warpingon a "1/6th"scale.
 
Not gonna lie, this discussion is reaching nowhere. Maybe you should move on to the next topic.
 
It is a double standard objectively. Most profiles on here allow New Game+ feats and statements, the onus would fall on you to show why this is non-canon objectively. Especially since Hero Mode is merely a hard mode for Twilight Princess.

https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Hero_Mode#Twilight_Princess_HD

"Twilight Princess HD

In Twilight Princess HD, Hero Mode is available at the beginning of the game. Unlike The Wind Waker HD, a menu pops up at the creation of a new save file giving the choice of Normal or Hero Mode. Once Hero Mode is selected, it cannot be turned off. In this mode, Hearts will not appear and Link takes double damage from enemies and bosses. Similarly to the Wii version of Twilight 'Princess, the entire map is flipped horizontally."


I don't know why you brought up Chrono Trigger when it was never even used as an example of contention. That wasn't even a verse I was thinking of for New Game+. But regardless, objectively prove a hard mode of a game is non-canon, it's arguments like this mind you, why I view your arguments as borderline desperate.


DDM, read your own refute. You're literally attempting every other existing assumption then the clear cut one. This refute is just more reson why I view your arguments as borderline desperate, you're attempting to avoid the clear cut answer to the yeeta point which is simply he isn't teleporting them. I never once claimed going inside of dark caves is not where the world of light exists so you've completely misconstrued my point here. I will re-quote then explain it to you so we don't have another misunderstanding."or else dark dungeons in TP should allow the MS to glow as there's no light there" Inside of dark caves/dungeon there's no sunlight or only beams of it. So logically with your logic, the Master Sword should glow in these yet that's not shown.


Why is it relevant that Pocket Reality is the most assumptive one (which it's not btw, Illusion Creation and Teleportation take stupidly more assumptions, Zant suddenly just changes the way he teleports, can teleport across time/teleports to a different room that's directly identical to Yeeta's boss room before it thaws, Zant can make duplication based IC into full on realms, etc.) when my final part is referring to reality warping? For all we know the 3 versions coulld have a sun and we can't see it, irregardless, the hard mode of the most current Twilight Princess title has it, and as I've seen with Link's Awakening you guys take the most recent title. So those previous 2 title snot having it is completely irrelevant.
 
PaChi2 said:
Not gonna lie, this discussion is reaching nowhere. Maybe you should move on to the next topic.
Click to expand...
This is the main topic of discussion. As it makes the WW topic irrelevant and not needed if accepted. So far no argument thus far has disproven it and DDM has just been on-mass using out of left field assumptions.
 
I agree with PaChi, the circular arguments are getting no where, it's still best to wait for Cal or Azathoth. And yes, he warped Hyrule by stealing powers from the Light Spirits, and he "Shun" the light meaning he blocked out any light. Again, zero proof of sun creation.
 
Zant didn't actually warp Hyrule. The black fogs in Zants palace that turn Link into a wolf are stated by Midna to be made of the same crystals that stole the Light Spirits light and turned Hyrule into Twilight. He just spread his magical crystals across the country which is a mix of absorption and soul manipulation but not reality warping.
 
Dust Collector said:
Zant didn't actually warp Hyrule. The black fogs in Zants palace that turn Link into a wolf are stated by Midna to be made of the same crystals that stole the Light Spirits light and turned Hyrule into Twilight. He just spread his magical crystals across the country which is a mix of absorption and soul manipulation but not reality warping.
Click to expand...
What? What are you even getting at? You outright admit he turned Hyrule into Twilight. Transforming a reality and changing it's properties, visuals, and affects is outright reality warping.
 
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It's responsible for stealing the light from the spirits and turning Hyrule into Twilight.
He's responsible for stealing the light from the spirits and turning your world into twilight…
 
Hyrule's not turning into twilight because Zant is bending reality to make it whatever he wants, its turning into twilight because he uses light absorping crystals which steal light from the spirits and that in turn clouds areas in twilight turning people into souls. It's just the soul manipulating/light absorbing crystals he uses in his palace spread out on a much larger scale that causes the effects not reality warping.
 
Never claimed he was bending reality to his will. He is still transforming Hyrule visually and affecting the properties. There are many remarks in the game about how things feel different in the Twilight World prior to Link giving the Light Spirits energy again. And what are these massive assumptions you're making? It's not turning into Twilight because of the light absorption, that is absolutely never stated or implied. Twilight is not simply being lightless. Stealing the spirits and the light was quite literally a side affect of the warping, it's outright shown that the transformation into Twilight is causing the spirits to be stolen, not the other way around.
 
You never claimed he was bending reality to his will? You just said a few posts ago that what he's doing is outright reality warping which is what bending reality to your will is.

I think there's quite a bit that implies the lack of light is what causes Hyrule to turn into twilight. The only part of Hyrule that's still normal is Ordon Village and it's surronding area and Ordona is the only spirit who didn't have their light stolen whereas all other spirits did and their areas became twilight, during the cutscene when you speak to Ordona you see a scene where Faron has their light stolen and and the area noticeably doesn't become twilight until after you see Faron losing their light (2:40 mark), the main method of dispelling the twilight and returning the areas to normal is retrieving the spirits stolen light which upon regaining all the light back it turns the area back to light while removing the twilight, and when you first encounter Zant after beating the Lakebed Temple he attacks the spirit of light and removes its light (3:34 mark, as the orb floats you see light shining out but when Zant drops it a second later the light disappears) and once the light is gone the area suddenly becomes twilight again, and when the as the orb floats you see light shining out but when Zant drops it the light is gone) spirit pops back up and displays its light once agai (3:05 mark) the twilight is quickly dispelled and the area becomes normal again. Seems to imply that light dispells twilight and the lack of it is what allows twilight to cover Hyrule.
 
There were translations from what Midna said, plus I'm positive she'd no more about how Zant's powers work a bit more than Zelda would given they're both Twili.
 
There is not enough evidence to make that claim (unless there was a direct statement and I missed it). Those very examples bring up a few contradictions:

1.If it was simply the existance/balance of the light, then why doesn't the area of twilight shrink with every tear of light freed?

2. If the light spirits maintain the light of the Light World, why is it that when only one one the spirits remain, (also stated/implied to be the weakest iirc) the Light World is still mostly the Light World. (In the cutscence with Ordana, the you can see stars in the night sky. in fact, the sky doesn't look at all different than usual)

3. During the times when the twilight appears, it has always been done by a denizen of the Twilight Realm, therefore giving further weight that there is more to the process than simply sealing the light.

As is, dispelling the Twilight is a feat of ability for the light spirits, not an expansion of the mechanics of the Light World.
 
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Dust Collector said:
You never claimed he was bending reality to his will? You just said a few posts ago that what he's doing is outright reality warping which is what bending reality to your will is.
I think there's quite a bit that implies the lack of light is what causes Hyrule to turn into twilight. The only part of Hyrule that's still normal is Ordon Village and it's surronding area and Ordona is the only spirit who didn't have their light stolen whereas all other spirits did and their areas became twilight, during the cutscene when you speak to Ordona you see a scene where Faron has their light stolen and and the area noticeably doesn't become twilight until after you see Faron losing their light (2:40 mark), the main method of dispelling the twilight and returning the areas to normal is retrieving the spirits stolen light which upon regaining all the light back it turns the area back to light while removing the twilight, and when you first encounter Zant after beating the Lakebed Temple he attacks the spirit of light and removes its light (3:34 mark, as the orb floats you see light shining out but when Zant drops it a second later the light disappears) and once the light is gone the area suddenly becomes twilight again, and when the as the orb floats you see light shining out but when Zant drops it the light is gone) spirit pops back up and displays its light once agai (3:05 mark) the twilight is quickly dispelled and the area becomes normal again. Seems to imply that light dispells twilight and the lack of it is what allows twilight to cover Hyrule.
Click to expand...
This is all nice. As covered earlier you are making massive assumptions here. The main problem with them is that you are assuming pure contradictions to the feat itself. I already gave you the direct feat of Zant turning everything into Twilight which is what everything is based upon, they turned into spirits and had their light stolen when he spread Twilight. You see this in the feat itself. This is not only a statement and you'd be contradicting what you're basing it upon with all of this. Link is not restoring light to the spirits or whatever you seem to believe, he is restoring their powers. See below for more on that. Also thisdisplay that you ignored to make pure assumptions.

Just so you know, the light only comes back after dispelling the Twilight.

https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Tear_of_Light

"When the vessel is full of tears, you can dispel the twilight and return the land to its light-filled state." — N/A (Twilight Princess)

" "The Vessel of Light is full of tears, and light has returned to this area!" — N/A (Twilight Princess)"

^^Both of these statements show that light is only returned to the area prior to Twilight being dispelled and not vice versa.

Link also has to outright fill the Tears of Light and transfer them as power for the Twilight in order to be dispelled. It's not like he suddenly gets all of the Tears of Light and it's suddenly restored. I hope you know the Light Spirits themselves state that light has been restored yet Twilight is still there. It is literally an action they must go through with to dispel it. Zant messed with the Light Spirit's ability to dispel Twilight and it's never implied he just stole light, and dispelling Twilight would be an ability as covered otherwise.
 
I already gave you the direct feat of Zant turning everything into Twilight which is what everything is based upon, they turned into spirits and had their light stolen when he spread Twilight. You see this in the feat itself.

Ok? I never denied Zant was turning everything into twilight, I'm arguing that he's not doing it via reality warping so I don't know why you needed to say that you gave me a direct feat of Zant turning everything into twilight. And yes I can see how in the feat itself that the people of Hyrule are turned into spirits due to a lack of light, not seeing how this proves that Zant is reality warping all of Hyrule. Tbh I don't actually know if you're actually referring to the Light Spirits here since you said they had their light stolen and the people of Hyrule aren't made of light that can be stolen, but the spirits don't even appear in that cutscene you linked so I'm not actually sure if you're actually referring to the Light Spirits or not due to that stolen light part you said.

Link is not restoring light to the spirits or whatever you seem to believe, he is restoring their powers. See below for more on that. Also this display that you ignored to make pure assumptions.

I mean, considering that the Light Spirits are beings made of light there's probably a chance that restoring their light and restoring their power are the same thing, but as you said you posted more about this below this snippet of text so I'll respond to that. Also what are those images meant to prove? One is from the scene where Midna talks about Zants crystals which stole the spirits light and turned Hyrule into twilight and the other is from the scene where Zeldas talks about the situation of Hyrule becoming twilight, and I ignored these displays? I mentioned the first scene from the first image when I talked about Zants crystals, and the second is just Zelda saying Hyrule is covered in clouds of twilight which I also didn't ignore since I've acknowledged that Zant is behind Hyrule being in its current state.

Just so you know, the light only comes back after dispelling the Twilight.

https://zelda.gamepedia.com/Tear_of_Light

"When the vessel is full of tears, you can dispel the twilight and return the land to its light-filled state." — N/A (Twilight Princess)

" "The Vessel of Light is full of tears, and light has returned to this area!" — N/A (Twilight Princess)"

^^Both of these statements show that light is only returned to the area prior to Twilight being dispelled and not vice versa.

The first statement says that when the vessel is full of tears you can dispel the twilight and return the land to light again, said tears are made of light, specifically the tears are the stolen light of the Light Spirits (5:13 mark) and that statement says that filling the vessel with enough of the spirits light will dispel twilight and then the area becomes normal again, so not much different than me saying that the light dispels the twilight earlier.

The second statement says that the vessel is full of tears (light) and now light is returning to the area as a result of you retrieving the stolen light, plus this statement is also accompanied by a cutscene of the vessel of the stolen light descending into the spring (15:20 mark) that whatever spirit you just restored resides in as twilight fades away. So your claim of Link not actually restoring their light or whatever I seem to believe is contradicted by the game having you retrieve their stolen light and having the vessel containing said light brought back to the spirit. Also you worded the beginning and ending of this in a contradictory manner, saying at first that light only comes back after the twilight is dispelled and then saying after posting those two statements that light only comes back before twilight is dispelled. Just thought I'd point that out since I doubt you meant to contradict yourself (Although by the time I post this message you may have already noticed and edited it so ignore this last part if that's the case).

Link also has to outright fill the Tears of Light and transfer them as power for the Twilight in order to be dispelled. It's not like he suddenly gets all of the Tears of Light and it's suddenly restored. I hope you know the Light Spirits themselves state that light has been restored yet Twilight is still there. It is literally an action they must go through with to dispel it. Zant messed with the Light Spirit's ability to dispel Twilight and it's never implied he just stole light, and dispelling Twilight would be an ability as covered otherwise.

Yeah he fills the vessels with light, we get a quick jump cut going back to the spring, and then Link gives back the stolen light and the spirits are restored to normal while twilight leaves. There's not really much to say that it's an action they must go through with when all we get is the game saying getting back all the stolen light will dispel the twilight and a dinky little vessel full of said stolen light descends into the spring while twilight disappears. Even when Lanayru reappears from the spring after Zant Initially knocks them out, all they do is fly into the air and the twilight is passively dispelled, Lanayru is never shown or said to have actively done some kinda action to specifically dispel the twilight, they just pop out of the spring and the twilight disappears.

Also you say it's never implied that Zant just stole their light but all the game gives us is "Yeah his crystals and shadow beasts stole their light, get their light back and twilight goes away", it's also never implied dispelling twilight is done via a certain ability the spirits have or that Zant stole their light and also separately nulled their never mentioned or alluded to specific ability to dispel twilight.

Also that cutscene you linked as proof of twilight still being there despite the Light Spirits saying light has been restored doesn't say or imply twilight is still there. When he says "Those grounds have been defiled, draped in shadow and seeded in evil" (Which is the line I'm guessing you think proves twilight is still there) isn't actually talking about twilight. When you go up to Death Mountain and into the Gorons Mines there's no twilight, he's referring to Zants forces still mucking around up there and the Fused Shadow.
 
Are we still talking about Zant's High 4-C feat? As the Lights Spirits,Twilight in the Light World and Fused Shadows should have nothing to do with the feat performed in the fight

Just because he hasn't shown any feat of RW close to this doesn't matter as this would be his highest feat.Is being an Outleir has been debunked and all existing arguments against it being an Outleir is stretched out assumptions and theories.The feat itself must be reality warping as BFR has been debunked by in game statements from the previous thread and illusions would be a great assumption as almost everything in the battle that Zant made is physical and to assume that the Star is non physical is pure assumption
 
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