Zelda: Ocarina of Time Temple Bosses Revamp

[Dust_Collector]

Yeah continuing the trend of revamping Zelda profiles, I've got a batch of all 5 temple bosses from Ocarina of Time to revamp and even upgrade.

Phantom Ganon: Current Profile - My Revamp
Volvagia: Current Profile - My Revamp
Morpha: Current Profile - My Revamp
Bongo Bongo: Current Profile - My Revamp
Twinrova: Current Profile - My Revamp

The Sage scaling that makes Morpha, Bongo Bongo, and Twinrova Large Island level was accepted in this thread so that doesn't need much discussion, I'm just gonna apply those accepted values at the same time as these general revamps I made in these sandboxes. Something to be noted (And I'm sure anyone looking will notice) is how in the AP justifications I do mention the sages as part of it despite them not having profiles. I am working on that and all the profiles for them are pretty much done, I have Rauru and Saria sandboxes (As well as the other sages I just haven't converted them into sandboxes yet) so I'd be able to get them all made and published even if this threads so as smoothly as possible and is accepted no contentions within the 48 hour grace period, so I can easily just link their profiles in the AP justifications of these 5 chumps before the changes are made. And even if I can't, the changes don't have to be implemented the second grace ends, I don't think anyone will be upset if Morpha isn't updated for like a day after the thread finishes so that the needed profiles can be made to link in his justifications)

Something that I am kinda stumped to handle in their physical stats (As you will see from Rauru and Saria having unknown for everything besides AP) but also how to reflect these changes in Link's OOT profile. Since these dudes will range in their AP values I ain't sure how exactly to reflect Link's own stats for his profile (He'll need a new key since atm he only has 1 key for his adult self and that's the endgame), a rating of 6-C to High 6-C with explanations of how he jumps between tiers seemed fine but since there's 5 different values he scales to depending on which part of the game he's at I wasn't sure how exactly to account for all of them). There's also the fact that these dudes travel speed being mach 1,000 is goofy (Onox's flight speed via tornados shouldn't apply to these dudes) but we'd need a deticated speed thread for the verse as a whole honestly since our ratings for travel speed as a whole are, really weird so for now they can keep it I guess.

And yes I know it's really goofy that every single one of these bosses will be rated higher than Demise and Hylia are currently rated but don't blame me for that

 

[Emerald]

BONGO BONGO SWEEEEEP!!!!

RAAAAHHHH
I agree

 

[Dust_Collector]

BONGO BONGO SWEEEEEP!!!!

FIRST CHARACTER TO MAKE A BONGILLION DOLLARS IN VSBW

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looking alright.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Looking alright.

Agreed

 

[Tyloxtus]

I don't like the idea of VSBW treating OT Link as though his Sages amp works like he absorbs their power like Majin Buu. Obviously he's amped but the game does not treat it as a substantial boost at all. You're also basing the higher Key on the idea of everyone (even Saria) being equal to or on par with Rauru just for being a Sage, which obviously someone like Saria won't be.

 

[Dust_Collector]

don't even remember anything saying Rauru added his power to Link's

He does it right here, already accepted in the previous CRT which I linked in the OP

I don't like the idea of VSBW treating OT Link as though his Sages amp works like he absorbs their power like Majin Buu. Obviously he's amped but the game does not treat it as a substantial boost at all.

They're treated as substantial enough that he needed to go get their combined might before he could even think about fighting Ganon.

and you're basing the higher Key on the idea of everyone (even Saria) being equal to Rauru.

They're treated as comparable enough that Rauru urges Link to go free them and gain their powers even as he grants his own strength to him, and they're all equally needed to have the power to drive Ganon into the Dark World so he can be sealed inside. Rauru isn't doing the heavy lifting with all the stuff they pull off at the end.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Yeah, I saw that and changed my response.

That wasn't the reason he had to do that. He had to do that because they needed the 7 Sages to be able to seal Ganondorf away.

You telling someone to gain powers of others doesn't mean they're all on your level. Just because they all used their powers doesn't mean they were all equally needed.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

which obviously someone like Saria won't be.

That honestly sounds like incredulity.

 

[Emerald]

which obviously someone like Saria won't be.

why tho?

 

[Dust_Collector]

That wasn't the reason he had to do that. He had to do that because they needed the 7 Sages to be able to seal Ganondorf away.

Yeah, and to become stronger. Saving the sages can be for more than 1 reason, becoming stronger and then having them also toss Ganondorf into gay baby jail.

You telling someone to gain powers of others doesn't mean they're all on your level. Just because they all used their powers doesn't mean they were all equally needed.

Unless you wanna say Rauru contributes a large majority of the power behind everything they do while everyone else combined is just a fraction of what he does, I don't know why they wouldn't all be in the same ball park given how vital that they all need to pull their power together to do this stuff. Also don't really know what to say about the earlier Saria comment, like why single her out? Is it just because she's 9?

 

[SilentLyfe]

Also don't really know what to say about the earlier Saria comment, like why single her out? Is it just because she's 9?

Technically as a Kokiri she could be like hundreds of years old.

Anyway profiles look good.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Just because Rauru told him to do that too doesn't mean it's a purpose of the mission.

During the Family Kamehameha, because Goten contributed do you think that makes him close to Goku in power? Yes, it's because she's 9, and because Kokiris as a whole are the weakest race in Zelda, probably ever unless you count Koroks as a different race. Kokiris can't lift rocks or bushes that start of game Young Link can effortlessly, and nowhere through the whole game does it imply Saria is much stronger, with or without Sage power.

 

[Emerald]

Yes, it's because she's 9, and because Kokiris as a whole are the weakest race in Zelda, probably ever unless you count Koroks as a different race. Kokiris can't lift rocks or bushes that start of game Young Link can effortlessly, and nowhere through the whole game does it imply Saria is much stronger, with or without Sage power

Magic power system goes brrr

 

[Tyloxtus]

Why is it cold

 

[Dust_Collector]

Yes, it's because she's 9, and because Kokiris as a whole are the weakest race in Zelda, probably ever unless you count Koroks as a different race. Kokiris can't lift rocks or bushes that start of game Young Link can effortlessly, and nowhere through the whole game does it imply Saria is much stronger, with or without Sage power.

dunno why the game treated her granting Link her power as just as significant as the other Sages when she's weaker than the average human even after awakening untapped mystical power, honestly don't know she was chosen as a sage instead of Mill Owner Moe given how weak she apparently is.

 

[Dalesean027]

Great work as always, these are looking good

 

[Tyloxtus]

The game treats her just as insignificantly among Sages. Honestly I'd be fine with it if it didn't imply Link was given ALL the power of every Sage, instead that he was amped by them at all.

 

[Emerald]

The game treats her just as insignificantly among Sages.

When?

 

[Dust_Collector]

The game treats her no different than the rest of the Sages lol, like I guess in terms of physical strength she'd likely be weaker

 

[Hypertornado099]

What's the reasoning for Saria being comparable to Rauru?

 

[Hypertornado099]

Also, Bongo Bongo can break out of being flash frozen and continue moving its hand afterwards, which I think counts for resistance to extreme temperatures

If Kotake's statement is not hyperbole, should it not count for soul manipulation? And should the bosses gain resistance to more of Link's abilities if they can survive it in gameplay?

 

[Emerald]

What's the reasoning for Saria being comparable to Rauru?

Link requires the powers of the Sages to remove Ganondorf's seal around the castle, and he needs all sages to be present to do that

 

[Dust_Collector]

Also, Bongo Bongo can break out of being flash frozen and continue moving its hand afterwards, which I think counts for resistance to extreme temperatures

Does it? I thought breaking out of stuff like that was due to strength or something which is why I didn't add the resistance, but if it counts then yeah I can add it.

If Kotake's statement is not hyperbole, should it not count for soul manipulation?

I tried find anything that might back up her statement being literal but found nothing, so I think it's safer to stick with it being hyperbole

And should the bosses gain resistance to more of Link's abilities if they can survive it in gameplay?

They should but I couldn't get any footage to use as justification for it (Would record it myself but atm I have no way to get it myself) so I didn't wanna add them without scans backing it up

 

[Hypertornado099]

Does it? I thought breaking out of stuff like that was due to strength or something which is why I didn't add the resistance, but if it counts then yeah I can add it.



I tried find anything that might back up her statement being literal but found nothing, so I think it's safer to stick with it being hyperbole



They should but I couldn't get any footage to use as justification for it (Would record it myself but atm I have no way to get it myself) so I didn't wanna add them without scans backing it up

The temperature of something that just broke out of flash freezing into a block of ice moments ago should be very low. Its not a resistance to ice manipulation BTW, just temperature

 

[Dust_Collector]

so I can easily just link their profiles in the AP justifications of these 5 chumps before the changes are made. And even if I can't, the changes don't have to be implemented the second grace ends, I don't think anyone will be upset if Morpha isn't updated for like a day after the thread finishes so that the needed profiles can be made to link in his justifications)

Lol nevermind I got so sick that I spent the entire day in bed (Thank god I got a gazillion paid sick days off saved up from being never sick enough to use them before, need me that paycheck), slightly better now but I ain't in the right shape to make those profiles oops

 

[Dalesean027]

Lol nevermind I got so sick that I spent the entire day in bed (Thank god I got a gazillion paid sick days off saved up from being never sick enough to use them before, need me that paycheck), slightly better now but I ain't in the right shape to make those profiles oops

Get better man

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Lol nevermind I got so sick that I spent the entire day in bed (Thank god I got a gazillion paid sick days off saved up from being never sick enough to use them before, need me that paycheck), slightly better now but I ain't in the right shape to make those profiles oops

Lots of people seem to be getting sick as of late.

But rest good and get speedy recovery.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Ok actually feeling better now, should have the profiles up and running by the weekend and then I can also update the 5 chuckleheads from the temples as well.

Only thing I need to know (Gonna ask on the general discussion thread too) is what to do with the sages physical stats. Their abilities and Island level AP is easy, but uh everything else ain't. I know Darunia would at be at least Building level physically via bomb scaling.

 

[Tyloxtus]

Was hoping to downscale Saria from the Kokiri Sword but, well

 

[Dust_Collector]

Ok so the finished profiles for Rauru, Saria, Darunia, Ruto, Impa, and Nabooru's profiles (Only need to add a bit more to Nabooru's summary), anyone got any objections or comments to make before I publish them and finally make the changes to the temple bosses (Sorry for taking so long to finish them, work has been kicking my ass these last few weeks)

Also I might be stalling simply because the wiki isn't letting me make or even edit anything atm and I don't know why

 

[Hypertornado099]

Ok so the finished profiles for Rauru, Saria, Darunia, Ruto, Impa, and Nabooru's profiles (Only need to add a bit more to Nabooru's summary), anyone got any objections or comments to make before I publish them and finally make the changes to the temple bosses (Sorry for taking so long to finish them, work has been kicking my ass these last few weeks)

Also I might be stalling simply because the wiki isn't letting me make or even edit anything atm and I don't know why

Shouldn't you add the explanation for the sages being comparable? You mentioned it earlier in this thread

They're treated as comparable enough that Rauru urges Link to go free them and gain their powers even as he grants his own strength to him, and they're all equally needed to have the power to drive Ganon into the Dark World so he can be sealed inside. Rauru isn't doing the heavy lifting with all the stuff they pull off at the end.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Shouldn't you add the explanation for the sages being comparable? You mentioned it earlier in this thread

Yeah but for that last day or so the wiki just hasn't been letting me edit anything. Anytime I try to load up my sandboxes or any other page for editing it just, doesn't. It just stopped loading since like 12 yesterday and I dunno why.