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Major Mortal Kombat Revision, Part I

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I also recall issue taken with Raiden's feat because of the fact we don't know if it was one floor he busted or all at once

Could probably do with a low end of one tho

I do think Raiden busts a bridge in 9 and, worst case scenario we could just upscale the "Demigod Tiers" from wherever we put the normals

I'd also like to adress something about Sindel

Wouldn't her MK11 self be a separate key?

She's certainly hyped up as being powerful but looking at the games this is the only real time she's presented as truly God Tier (The closest she got was MK9 where she was amped by Shang's power added to hers)

She was revived by using Jinsei from the Dragon Grotto so that could be why she's so much more powerful, remember that because the Komics aren't canon (Or mostly aren't) that means that we just see Jinsei empower people.

Fire God Liu Kang used it to "fuel his fire" and best the White Revenants and Shinnok's plan in MKX is pretty much dependent on absorbing it to gain power

So NetherRealm timeline Sindel could do with keys

Also guess this means I'm back (Till late March at least)
 
Hellbeast said:
I also recall issue taken with Raiden's feat because of the fact we don't know if it was one floor he busted or all at once

Could probably do with a low end of one tho

I do think Raiden busts a bridge in 9 and, worst case scenario we could just upscale the "Demigod Tiers" from wherever we put the normals

I'd also like to adress something about Sindel

Wouldn't her MK11 self be a separate key?

She's certainly hyped up as being powerful but looking at the games this is the only real time she's presented as truly God Tier (The closest she got was MK9 where she was amped by Shang's power added to hers)

She was revived by using Jinsei from the Dragon Grotto so that could be why she's so much more powerful, remember that because the Komics aren't canon (Or mostly aren't) that means that we just see Jinsei empower people.

Fire God Liu Kang used it to "fuel his fire" and best the White Revenants and Shinnok's plan in MKX is pretty much dependent on absorbing it to gain power

So NetherRealm timeline Sindel could do with keys

Also guess this means I'm back (Till late March at least)
Click to expand...
The pics of the floor busting scene I that I linked and posted beside the feat show his lightning reaching multiple floors at once.

If I recall correctly, Shang considered her to be quite powerful even before she had some of the Jinsei in her and even though he lied about her true nature (he was still correct about Sindel's power), which is why she was required by the Aftermath trio to stand a fighting chance against Dark Cetrion.

I'm not sure what you mean about your point God Liu and the Jinsei
 
True but that simply means that base Sindel is considerable to Base Shang whom doesn't have the best feats in this timeline

It also doesn't help her best feats by far only take place in 11 after being exposed to an element that is referenced as amping people

Here. Liu uses the Jinsei flowing through his veins to fuel his fire in the final battle of MK11 which is one of two occasions the Jinsei's use corresponds to being directly more powerful (the other is Shinnok)

Thus Sindel has

A) Feats better then what she's had in any of the other games in this timeline

B) Exposure to an element that amplifies powers after being used in the only two other cases we see
 
Ah I see what you mean about Sindel. I don't think she should scale to Shang because she's clearly stronger (not against his stronger magic perhaps) plus if she ever has her own feats to scale to, she'd remain there with the likes of Geras and maybe Nightwolf. I assume you mean that she scales to Shang since she easily beat the Earthrealm warriors who also scales to Shang, but she's definitely above most of them barring Nightwolf. And like I said, Shang considered her to be powerful even before the time she was exposed to Jinsei.

Also, what do you think of my proposition to make God Liu's ratings Wall level, higher with the Jinsei (the 9-B rating is just a placeholder)
 
Hey guys, I know this thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere, but I did make this detailed explanation of MK characters powers and abilities. It's a very detailed section of their profiles that doesn't use giant walls of text and I think you MK fans and supporters might find it a very good read. However, it's still unfinished and it only applies to the NRS timeline characters.

vsbattles.fandom.com

no

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
Please write a list of all members that have helped out in this thread or are otherwise knowledgeable about MK, so I can send notifications to them.
 
I know I'm kinda late to this...kinda lol

But I agree and disagree with some stuff so I believe I gotta give my 2 cents

Whoever revised the pages after MK11 came out appears to have been under the impression that the 'past' characters (Liu Kang, Kung Lao, Kitana, Shao Kahn, etc.) were all taken by Kronika from the Original Timeline. I'm not sure that I understand what would lead someone to that conclusion, but it's wrong. Very wrong.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with this part, and I believe we should keep them as separate keys for Midway and Netherrealm timelines, if it becomes too big...actually separate the profiles since take Liu Kang for example, he would need multiple keys for Midway Base, Midway Zombie, NR Base, NR Revenant and NR Fire God

The only true problem is that we also gotta separate their haxes between Midway and NR (except some that are obviously shared), may not be that much of a problem for somebody like Baraka, but Raiden and other more haxed characters can be affected

Yes, I am serious. The events detailed within the comic are no longer part of canon as of MK11. Apparently the story and voiceover director at NetherRealm has recently said outright that the comics aren't canon anymore, so if there were any doubts about that before, this should remove them now. In fact, with the way the MK11 story has been written, it's pretty clear that this is an intentional retcon and not just Ed Boon & friends forgetting things like they usually do.
Click to expand...

I agree aswell, and that alone nukes some feats

A lot of the characters in MK's Current Timeline are shown to have limitations far below what their current ratings are. These aren't one-off moments that can be handwaved; these are consistent showings that place a hard limit on what their capabilities are.
Click to expand...
And please, let's not try to write this off with "this is PIS" or "the guns/bombs/missiles/tanks/chains/Koliseum door/prison cell is clearly stronger than a normal one", because neither of those arguments follow.
Click to expand...

I understand that they, in cutscenes, literally aren't much beyond normal humans, but writers not really showing respect to how strong their characters are isn't really that new, if we take everything from the cutscenes and their anti feats, they wouldn't be strong enough for, say, tearing any human apart with physical blows (which is 9-B in overall), something consistent with the gameplay of the series for all these years. I do agree that what we see from the new timeline isn't really impressive, but I don't see them below 9-B

Restricting a God?
Click to expand...

Agree here, literally there isn't a MK Tournament in X and 11 happening

Let's be honest; if a character ending isn't canon, it's probably overexaggerated in some way, shape or form
Click to expand...

I completely agree

The Fatalities are, put simply, exaggerations of what each character is capable of. Some of them are replicated in stories, cutscenes, et cetera, but most are highly contradicted by what we see the characters actually do. With the current timeline, you can see as much based on the many showings outlined elsewhere on this thread, especially in regards to higher-rated characters.

Even if you choose to ignore everything else that was outlined above regarding just how frequently the MK cast are portrayed they way they are, there's also the fact that these game animations aren't even consistent with themselves. This doesn't kill, but this does? Someone who can survive this can't survive this? Someone who lives through this gets killed by this? This shit doesn't kill you, but this does?

You can try to alleviate this by disregarding the latter showings, but at that point you're just cherrypicking
Click to expand...

Now here I almost completely disagree

I see that your main problem with them is people not dying for similar or even higher damage in gameplay but that isn't really an argument for a game, fighting games aren't about killing your opponent during the round 1 (for example), except for specific stuff like the Death Traps in 5, 6 and 7, the very fact that they show in both gameplay and fatalities those power and capabilities only help that the fatalities are part of what they can do, while the game part will ignore to who they are doing (Like Baraka fataliting Raiden, for example)

Now, what I do agree, is outliers in fatalities aka Cetrion pulling a Asura's wrath 5-A feat when the Shaking Planet and Reshaping Netherrealm is in the Midway timeline, that isn't usable by outlier alone

Now what I believe about some stuff discussed:

I agree (And even asked about that before the CRT), that Raiden's storm feats should be Environmental Destruction for at least the NR Timeline, now that comics (with the Mountain tearing quote) is now non canon, the Midway Timeline has that Low 7-C feat that Onaga took no damage from, so...maybe could be consistent ? We have Shinnok reshaping the Netherrealm (which is infinite in size) losing to Liu Kang in MK4, I'm not saying that they are High 3-A, no, but that there is a whole lot of stuff going on at the Midway timeline that deserves its own thread and re-scalling

Also, Storm feats are scaled to physicals when they have similar feats or if the Storm Feat and the Physical shares the same energy source (like DMC for example), and I dunno if that's the case for NR Timeline Raiden, anyway it's very inconsistent

Just a question, do we accept using intro and victory poses as references for a character's powers like Shang's soulnado and Rain's thunderstorm?

I know we can't use those kinds of cinematics for feats and such but they do have some interesting powers and usage of them for some characters
Click to expand...

I see no reason to not use it, Raiden creating natural Lightning could be 8-C+, being attacked with doesn't translate to all the energy but creating ? I believe it can

A 9-C handgun can pierce damage anyone up to 9-B, and a sniper rifle can pierce damage human sized characters up to 9-A. Piercing is also more likely to happen the bigger than target is, but any human sized character 8-C or above getting hurt by bullets is just plain bad writing. Basically the summary of it. But Mr King makes sense mostly.
Click to expand...

Agree that most bullets are piercing damage, but since the characters are currently listed as High 8-C and bullets consistenly harm them, I guess we can't just ignore, even more now that the very High 8-C feat is non canon.

Now, going by the calcs, only the Top Tiers like Raiden, Fujin, Weakened Cetrion, will be High 8-C to 8-B (Cetrion's earthquake), while having other 8-C feats for consistency (Fujin's Wind), which i'm fine with

So it seems that characters can be split in 3 groups:
1) Low-Mid tiers: 90% of the characters.
2) High tiers: Liu Kang, Shao Khan, Raiden, Fujin, Sindel, weakened Cetrion...
3) God tiers: Kronika, Fire God Liu Kang, Transfomed Cetrion...
Grandmaster Hanzo and Sub-Zero would be somewhere between 1 and 2, and Shinok would be between 2 and 3.
Click to expand...

I believe this is fine aswell
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Hey guys, I know this thread doesn't seem to be going anywhere, but I did make this detailed explanation of MK characters powers and abilities. It's a very detailed section of their profiles that doesn't use giant walls of text and I think you MK fans and supporters might find it a very good read. However, it's still unfinished and it only applies to the NRS timeline characters.

vsbattles.fandom.com

no

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Click to expand...
From what I saw, this looks really good

About the Thread, if needed I can make a part 2 with everything that was accepted here, with now just straight scalling with the calcs that we have
 
Thank you for helping out. However, we need more input here, so I would still appreciate if somebody lists all of the knowledgeable members and staff that have posted in this thread or/and are listed in the verse page, so I can send notifications to them, as nothing seems to happen here.
 
Well, aside from me and Ecs

DarkDragonMedeus, LordGriffin1000, Eficiente, Hellbeast and TISSG7Redgrave are listed as supporters and active
 
There's 3 more feats that I want to know if we can use them or not (Dark Raiden blasting multiple floors of the Sky Temple with lightning to torture Shinnok, Revenant Liu collapsing the castle basement's ceiling in Ch 1, and Fujin causing the clouds to shift when using the Krown to destroy the gate) before we begin scaling
 
Well Fujin does have his own feats when putting on the Krown and that should give him a key based on that. But the feat I mentioned for him was done before he puts on the Krown. If we ever agree to make that key for him, then he'd scale to base Kronika.
 
Doesn't seem like it based on the scene, I watched it several times and I can conclude this isn't anything related to time powers. In Fujin's scene where he breaks the gate, it happens before he puts on the crown. It also looks like he's trying to focus his power once he wears the crown, since the clouds stop moving when he gains focus.

Also this kind of stuff doesn't happen with other wielders like Jax, Jacqui, and Shang. It only happens with Fujin before he wears it.
 
What still needs to be done here?. Mortal Kombat scaling gives me a headache but if my input is needed I'll try and help, I just need to know what's currently being discussed.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
What still needs to be done here?. Mortal Kombat scaling gives me a headache but if my input is needed I'll try and help, I just need to know what's currently being discussed.
Click to expand...
Some good news for you: we're not dealing with scaling until the next thread (which you may choose to ignore). What we're dealing with is feats for scaling which is the 3 feats I mentioned earlier here:
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
There's 3 more feats that I want to know if we can use them or not (Dark Raiden blasting multiple floors of the Sky Temple with lightning to torture Shinnok, Revenant Liu collapsing the castle basement's ceiling in Ch 1, and Fujin causing the clouds to shift when using the Krown to destroy the gate) before we begin scaling
Click to expand...
These feats need to be calced if it's possible and after that we can finally begin scaling before moving on to the next issue.
 
Did Dark Radian even destroy anything with his lightning when he was torturing Shinnok? I don't recall and destruction, or are you just referring to the amount of lightning used?.

Liu Kang's feat might be hard to quantify given we don't know the full size of the basement.

Fujin's feat should be able to be calced.
 
LordGriffin1000 said:
Did Dark Radian even destroy anything with his lightning when he was torturing Shinnok? I don't recall and destruction, or are you just referring to the amount of lightning used?.

Liu Kang's feat might be hard to quantify given we don't know the full size of the basement.

Fujin's feat should be able to be calced.
Click to expand...
Well the concept art for the scene shows him destroying multiple floors with one lightning bolt, so there's that. I'm not sure what you mean by the amount of lightning used but that could be useful.

True, but Mr. Bambu was able to make a guess out of Scorpion's firenado feat which we don't see the full size of it. But we should at least try before declining it because I think it does have potential.

That's good to here (y)
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Well the concept art for the scene shows him destroying multiple floors with one lightning bolt, so there's that. I'm not sure what you mean by the amount of lightning used but that could be useful.

True, but Mr. Bambu was able to make a guess out of Scorpion's firenado feat which we don't see the full size of it. But we should at least try before declining it because I think it does have potential.

That's good to here (y)
Click to expand...
Since a single lightning blot has an amount of energy I assumed you were referring to the energy of Radian's lighting used on the Sky Temple in the scene, my bad.

Fair point. I don't mind it still being calced especially if it yields consistent results.
 
with all the problems it have it does seem the low tiers at least do need updates and such as well as probs new keys based on the timelines
 
I do not remember what proposals came last, but I agree with Griffin that MK11's scaling is a giant headache due to all the timelines and everything. I pretty much agree on making separate keys based on multiple timelines and periods, but I don't really have much to go over atm.
 
Separate keys or profile pages based on different timelines seems fine to me as well.
 
What do we currently need to do here? Do we need to find feats to calculate, or get feats that you already found calculated?

Also, should I send notifications to the members who are listed in the Mortal Kombat verse page, to help us out?
 
We just need to wait for someone to calc the three mentioned feats. If you can post here a link to a calc request thread that would be highly appreciated. I don't know where to find one and I'm very unfamiliar with this new layout outside of FANDOM
 
Okay. You can mention in the post that I sent you, and that we have an ongoing thread, at least, so you do not have to wait for months more.
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Thank you, but I recall someone from the calc group saying that it's better for non calc members to do the job. I posted the feats in the thread btw
Click to expand...
That was me, and it is. If a regular user can figure out the math (it isn't hard, my dumbass got it by referencing VSBW blogs) then a CGM only needs to eval. If a CGM does it, you then need another of the buggers to eval it for them. Half the work contacting/conning staff into responding if you got it yourself.

Plus I notice evals are easier to get than calcs. Which makes sense, really.
 
Well, the problem is that already ongoing threads are in a greater hurry to finish, and there are not always any people available who can properly perform the calculations.
 
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