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Major Mortal Kombat Revision, Part I

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Antvasima said:
Well, the problem is that already ongoing threads are in a greater hurry to finish, and there are not always any people available who can properly perform the calculations.
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This is true, but theoretically that is the intent of the evaluation process. If people make a mistake, theoretically it will be caught. It seems to me it is easier to get a single CGM (thus expediting the process) than two. Just my take on the whole system.
 
Yes, I agree in general. It is just that it isn't practical to wait for months for that part of the process if an important content revision thread is already going on.

Speaking of which, would you be willing to help us out here?
 
If you summarise what we need to do here, and then write a list of all the knowledgeable members and staff who have responded in this thread earlier, I can send notifications to them.
 
Did Raiden's Sky Temple floor calc
vsbattles.fandom.com

Mortal Kombat - Raiden's lightning crushes the floors of the Sky Temple's tower

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
Got High 8-C.

The Liu Kang cave feat is meant to trap Sonya and her squad, not crush them (and the bombs are still ok). He also shoots a stream of fire at a small part of the ceiling. The issue is the depth of the collapse he made; if it is something like 5 meters, then fragmentation would yield Small Building level.

Cetrion's Earthquake feat happened directly above the characters, so I am not sure enough range was demonstrated to qualify as an Earthquake.

The Krown moving the clouds as Fujin is wearing it looks like the best feat we directly see so far. But if it gets Tier 7 then I'll be for counting it as Environmental Destruction.

Is Raiden's amulet feat against the Netherworld army vaporization or pulverization?
main-qimg-bc54ed6da3c5ea360ad2578071d28d5d

If it is vaporization, then vaporizing four or five humanoids at the same time would make it 8-C.
 
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ShadowWhoWalks said:
Is Raiden's amulet feat against the Netherworld army vaporization or pulverization?
main-qimg-bc54ed6da3c5ea360ad2578071d28d5d

If it is vaporization, then vaporizing four or five humanoids at the same time would make it 8-C.
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So I saw it on YouTube in slow motion, it's definitely vaporization as nothing gets left behind after they get hit.
 
The Crown feat isn't ED if the cloud stuff was done by its power, since well, the Crown upgrades the user physically, it's the same power source. However, I believe we can't just say that and ignore Fujin on the equation, specially him who (Just like Raiden) has control over storms and stuff similar (He created one against Bi Han)

High 8-C is apparently the most consistent Tier for the Top characters
 
Raiden's feat was done in the Netherrealm where he wasn't even at full strength, same with Fujin's crown feat where he was at the Netherrealm as well. They'd probably be At least High 8-C, likely higher if we get those accepted
 
Yeah that seems to be the best bet for them

I wonder if we can actually keep the Class K for them, since it's a common feat that usually people don't know how strong it is, similar to breaking necks being 9-B but usually not used if the characters don't show that level of strength on other situations

Characters like Fujin and Geras are listed as Class K but couldn't break of from chains, big chains, sure, but I believe K would be more than enough
 
Dante_Demon_Killah said:
Yeah that seems to be the best bet for them

I wonder if we can actually keep the Class K for them, since it's a common feat that usually people don't know how strong it is, similar to breaking necks being 9-B but usually not used if the characters don't show that level of strength on other situations

Characters like Fujin and Geras are listed as Class K but couldn't break of from chains, big chains, sure, but I believe K would be more than enough
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In Fujin's case he was weakened by the attack from Revenant Liu's amulet. If you notice in that scene where the trio gets caught in the NR, Fujin is the last one to get incapped after the others who were easily KO'd while Fujin attempted to resist the tentacle attack before succumbing to it.

Geras is a weird case though. He deflects both Shang and Fujin's beam attacks and sends it back to them with a single push (Fujin's wind can lift and weigh down a big rat beast thing), but he doesn't escape from chains and a certified forklift driver. Not to say that he's clearly weak, but all of his showings are so prominent that we can't discard one just because another one disproves it. We could put him at "Possibly Class K" because of that, plus it's implied that Geras grows stronger in the story anyway, so that makes it a bit more inconsistent (or not idk)
 
Well...they could be some really durable chains, assuming they are forged in the Netherrealm which might have some different materials

Still, what are the other Lifting Strength feats ? Breaking bones and stuff I remember being Class 1 to Class 5, and we have Cetrion with that bridge
 
Cetrion is Class M from this calc, could be higher since we don't see all of it plus it could possibly lead all the way to Kronika's Keep, which is quite a long distance seeing how they needed ships to get there

The rest are Class 5 for ripping heads and tearing people in half (especially armored SF soldiers and Lin Kuei cybers) and Class K for those who scale to Sub-Zero and Scorpion's spine ripping feats that they consistently do.
 
Well we have a lot of calcs we need now (except for the one with Fujin's clouds) so we just need to determine scaling, especially for the new characters or those who have upgrades.
 
I remember someone posting a scalling, but at first look I believe the scalling should be...

God Tier = Kronika, Crown Shang Tsung and Fire God Liu Kang
Top Tier = Elder Gods (Their prime, since Cetrion stated they were weakened in MK11)
High Tier = Raiden, Fujin, Liu Kang, Weakened Cetrion, Shao Kahn, Fallen Shinnok, Sindel (?), Geras (?), some others maybe
Mid Tier = Scorpion, Sub Zero, Shang Tsung, Sindel (?), Geras (?) basically people that can harm and react to the High Tiers but still aren't just as powerful. I guess Nightwolf might be here aswell
Low Tier = Everyone else
 
About the high tiers, we don't have a feat for them to scale to since we don't know how powerful they were at their prime. There's Cetrion's fatality feat, but that was discarded because people said it wasn't consistent with other feats (even though I think otherwise)

How do we deal with Kronika, Elder Gods, and God Shang/Liu tiers?
 
Lacking a solid feat shouldn't be a problem, we can scale them to "At least High Tier AP" for their prime, which likely will be High 8-C

Now, for Kronika, I remember Fire God Liu Kang being Liu Kang + Liu Kang + Raiden right ? Then he had a Jinsei upgrade. Considering the new 6.598 tons calc for Raiden (The High 8-C one), that would mean the fusion is 8-B. Now there is the Fujin + Crown feat that could also work, but we didn't decided if it's just Environmental Destruction or not

Base Kronika still is stronger than Crown Fujin so it would scale to her base
 
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Rewatching the scene, the clouds start their movement before Fujin puts on his head, which leads me to believe that the feat is from the Crown only. That being the case, it isn't Environmental Destruction, since the Crown amps physically with the same source of power (The Crown itself). Same energy source is one of the reasons to scale Storms to Physicals (You guys can check this in the ED page), Fujin + Crown still is weaker than Base Kronika

So...

Crown Shang Tsung + Souls from some fighters = Jinsei Fire For Liu Kang > Crown Kronika (Liu defeated her when she had the Crown) > Base Kronika > Fujin + Crown = Clouds feat

Raiden and Fujin should also have this Jinsei Amp when they feel they need to, that shows more or less why they are a cut above the rest, since this amp is actually very relevant even for Fire God Liu Kang
 
I think we need more input on Fujin's feat. As for what I think, I'd say that it was Fujin's feat rather than the Krown. The clouds actually stop moving when Fujin regains his focus and the clouds immediately speed up when the Krown touches his head, so basically what happens is Fujin prepares to channel his power and then gets overwhelmed by the Krown's power before regaining focus on the item. But I'm not familiar with ED myself so I'll leave it to those who know it better.

Scaling is good, but didn't Shang disagree with God Liu being able to beat Krownika in Aftermath? He said that it "leads too much to chance" implying that one wrong move would've gotten God Liu killed or injured at the very least. Whereas Shang's victory against Kronika is guaranteed because of his knowledge of the Krown. They should be equal to each other instead.
 
If you write a list of the knowledgeable members and staff who have commented earlier in this thread, I can send notifications to them.
 
SamanPatou said:
I agree that it applies to Ermac, I can't speak for Liu though, as I haven't played MK11 yet.
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He fused with Raiden and Revenant Liu's souls, plus Raiden speaks to him in his mind during the final chapter and tells him to use the Jinsei. He also retains some of the memories and knowledge of his revenant.
 
Ecstasy_Amphetamine said:
Nah I think everyone we need is subscribed to this thread, I'm just bumping it for their responses
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The notifications might be difficult to make work properly, or they might have unsubscribed from this thread long ago, so it would likely be best to send a notification to them.
 
Yeah pretty much. Triborg would be the only one to have Type 1 (and 3) since he contains multiple Lin Kuei ninja consciousness and can also summon their physical bodies into battle while Ermac and Liu both house multiple souls with different identities and the ability to freely communicate
 
Before I forget this, I'd like to list a bunch of new abilities that MK11 showed us. Just putting this here so that I wouldn't be accused of adding stuff without an approved CRT:
  • It should be stated in his P&A that Liu Kang can still survive from having his soul taken, although this is probably Raiden's power doing that. Which should give him some form of resurrection on others as a power. Input appreciated on this one.
  • Fujin's page is outdated and MK11 gives him a new set of powers. Besides more utility to his wind powers, he also has attack reflection since he deflects Kronika's sand beam attack with his own powers, forcefield creation from his crossbow move where he makes wind barriers that ricochet the arrows, and power bestowal because he can give his allies limited flight. With a small reserve of Jinsei, he should have healing as well but only if he has it. Lastly, it should be noted that he can ignore durability with his wind powers by sucking out the air in your lungs.
  • There should be a page for the Hourglass. Besides the obvious time manipulation, it should also have time travel and clairvoyance. It was also the way out to the Aftermath trio's escape from the Void, so maybe spatial manipulation to some extent? And anyone who has the ability to wield it with the temporal energy & the knowledge required to use it (Kronika, God Liu, Krown Shang) should have a statement in their P&A that they can use the Hourglass' powers. Also in Shang's ending, he turns Raiden and Fujin into his servants which was part of his vision for his future. So maybe fate manipulation since he didn't actually corrupt them (Fujin appears to be in his default good guy skin and Dark Raiden exists in place of his good version)
  • Speaking of Shang, his Titan form should possess all of the abilities of the kombatants that he has taken the souls of since he displays them near the end of his ending. No need to list them in a wall of text, just put this: Possesses the powers of Fire God Liu, Fujin, Raiden (probably redundant because of God Liu), Sindel, Shao, and Kronika who also absorbed Cetrion.
  • Raiden should have resistance to time manip since this so called "Raiden's Gift" that God Liu has is what protected him from the Hourglass rewinding time. In Aftermath, he eventually breaks free out of Kronika's time stop beam within a short amount of time. Also resistance to fire manip from the multiple timelines scene with him versus Liu Kang. Lastly, he should have absorption since in MKX he absorbed the dark magic from Corrupted Shinnok into himself to cleanse the Jinsei.
  • Revenant Liu Kang has a scene where he summons a bunch of tentacles from his amulet to attack the Aftermath trio. Said tentacles wrap around and constrict them before they get KO'd plus there's a magic aura when that happens. Not sure what this is, so input appreciated.
 
Antvasima said:
If you write a list of the knowledgeable members and staff who have commented earlier in this thread, I can send notifications to them.
Click to expand...
This would still help a lot. I am not good at evaluating verses that I do not know a lot about.
 
  • It should be stated in his P&A that Liu Kang can still survive from having his soul taken, although this is probably Raiden's power doing that. Which should give him some form of resurrection on others as a power. Input appreciated on this one.
Click to expand...
You mean when Revenant Liu Kang taking his Soul ? I guess he can survive but completely incapable of anything

  • Fujin's page is outdated and MK11 gives him a new set of powers. Besides more utility to his wind powers, he also has attack reflection since he deflects Kronika's sand beam attack with his own powers, forcefield creation from his crossbow move where he makes wind barriers that ricochet the arrows, and power bestowal because he can give his allies limited flight. With a small reserve of Jinsei, he should have healing as well but only if he has it. Lastly, it should be noted that he can ignore durability with his wind powers by sucking out the air in your lungs.
Click to expand...

Also, every God Physiology based power that Raiden has also scales to Fujin, unsure what these abilities are, but I believe it might be useful aswell

  • There should be a page for the Hourglass. Besides the obvious time manipulation, it should also have time travel and clairvoyance. It was also the way out to the Aftermath trio's escape from the Void, so maybe spatial manipulation to some extent? And anyone who has the ability to wield it with the temporal energy & the knowledge required to use it (Kronika, God Liu, Krown Shang) should have a statement in their P&A that they can use the Hourglass' powers. Also in Shang's ending, he turns Raiden and Fujin into his servants which was part of his vision for his future. So maybe fate manipulation since he didn't actually corrupt them (Fujin appears to be in his default good guy skin and Dark Raiden exists in place of his good version)
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Certainly some sort of Fate Hax as Kronika stated multiple times to be able to do that with the Hourglass

I believe taking the trio out of the Void would be actually BFR, from a dimension to the regular one, or maybe Teleportation or even Portal Creation, as we don't see how exactly they exit the Void

  • Speaking of Shang, his Titan form should possess all of the abilities of the kombatants that he has taken the souls of since he displays them near the end of his ending. No need to list them in a wall of text, just put this: Possesses the powers of Fire God Liu, Fujin, Raiden (probably redundant because of God Liu), Sindel, Shao, and Kronika who also absorbed Cetrion.
Click to expand...

Yeap, easily the strongest character I guess ? (From the NR Timeline)

  • Raiden should have resistance to time manip since this so called "Raiden's Gift" that God Liu has is what protected him from the Hourglass rewinding time. In Aftermath, he eventually breaks free out of Kronika's time stop beam within a short amount of time. Also resistance to fire manip from the multiple timelines scene with him versus Liu Kang. Lastly, he should have absorption since in MKX he absorbed the dark magic from Corrupted Shinnok into himself to cleanse the Jinsei.
Click to expand...

I guess Shang also needs resistance to Time Hax ? He wasn't affected by Kronika on her arrival, however that could be because Kronika wanted to talk with them before the fight

  • Revenant Liu Kang has a scene where he summons a bunch of tentacles from his amulet to attack the Aftermath trio. Said tentacles wrap around and constrict them before they get KO'd plus there's a magic aura when that happens. Not sure what this is, so input appreciated.
Click to expand...

It KOs them without actually harming them right ? Maybe some sort of Sleep Inducement ? Also Summoning
 
Looking back at the Liu Kang scene where he gets his soul eaten, he only revives when Raiden starts fusing. So maybe some form of resurrection for Raiden rather than soulhax resist for Liu. His resurrection seems to be a last resort ability btw

Yes, I think some gods have common powers among themselves. First thing I can come up with is telekinesis, but every god character has that already. The Elder Gods have that too in MK9 but I already included those in Cetrion's page (Shinnok isn't included because he isn't an Elder God anymore)

As for the Void, IIRC Kronika's death unlocked the seal that trapped them in the Void. Because of that, Shang states that they were able to escape that place via the Hourglass. The Void in the new timeline seems to be the same timeless void that was first seen in MKD and just like in the old one they were able to observe but not manipulate events that were happening in the flow of time.

Good on Titan Shang.

Shang shouldn't have resist since Kronika didn't stop time for the three people she was going to talk to. When Raiden attacked her first, she added him among the kombatants who were time stopped before he broke free in a combat applicable time frame.

Personally I feel like its some sort of weapon that drains strength from anyone it manages to touch.
 
Hmm, I know Netherrealm isn't the best studio for plot, but Raiden having that kind of Resurrection seems absurd, it would be very useful to save those revenants ever since MK9. However, he had Revenant Liu Kang with 2 souls there, he just fused everything I guess

Well Regeneration, types of Immortality, Healing (Fujin could heal Nightwolf), Flight, I guess every power from Raiden that doesn't have anything related to Lightning could possibly be shared, like Portal Creation for example

Yeah I agree on that one, she didn't wanted to Time Hax Shang there

Could be, it's really tricky to say exactly what that does, considering we only have the visuals and no statements, I believe Statistics Reduction is the best bet
 
Okay on that one

There's a very little amount of gods and little lore behind them to make god physiology a thing in MK, so I'd say Raiden and Fujin have their own unique powers, and if they share something else like TK and flight, it's probably by the use of their own elements rather than something they have in common. Also Raiden's good version had the electric blades all along and he didn't Shinnok's Amulet to acquire them. Plus it disintegrated demons upon contact so maybe holy manipulation since the disintegration only happened in that situation (his lightning blades usually cut through people, demons don't disintegrate when they get killed, etc.)

Agree with the last two statements.
 
So what are your conclusions so far here, and what still needs to be done (calculations for example) or decided?
 
We just need to get results for Fujin's cloud feat and we'll discuss if it's ED or not. If it's ED then we can use the scaling that we made in the previous page. Otherwise we need a new scaling to accommodate that feat.
 
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