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- #161
This seems like a fairly empty boast, considering she ultimately needed Nightwolf's help to beat Cetrion and was clearly getting floored by her before Nightwolf started to intervene.
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Major Mortal Kombat Revision, Part I
- Thread starter MrKingOfNegativity
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So Demigods either downscale from Cetrions High 8-C calc, or upscale from a bunch of 9-A calcs. I think its safe to put them at High 8-C since Cetrions feat is done when she is weakened. So maybe we can have "at least 9-A, likely High 8-C" for them while having Elder Gods at "at least High 8-C".
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Tbh we shouldn't talk about tiers yet seeing how we have several uncalced feats to be used, not to mention that some parts of the MKX comics have been deemed canon by events in MK11's story mode. Right now we should just focus on scaling and use placeholder tiers such as Elder God tier and low tier if you still want to scale by feats.
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- #165
He shouldn't. Outside of the single battle where the player controls him, Kotal gets his ass kicked by Shao every time they fight. He does fairly minimal damage to Shao in those fights (he makes him bleed all of once, with a weapon that normally cleaves foes in half and/or does other, much greater forms of damage to people it hits), whereas Shao has overpowered him fairly easily many times and even kills him in Aftermath.
Kotal is in a weird middling spot where he's above fodder characters (he no-sells a blast from Jacqui's gauntlets, overpowers all of the Kombat Kids at once with some sort of magic, and is generally depicted as being stronger than characters like Baraka), but also below most of the stronger characters.
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- #167
Eh. Most of her fights with others in MK9 are player-driven, and as I said before, those can and should be ignored in regards to scaling unless the story gives a clear reason for why they play out the way they do.
On the other hand, Shao dying by her hand is retconned completely in Aftermath, so I suppose her defeating him is something that can be ignored as well. Liu Kang is objectively stronger than her, and Shao beats the crap out of him in Aftermath whether you choose to play as the latter or not. Between that and Sindel beating her no matter what, I think it's safe to say that NRS has settled on her not being remotely as strong as Shao at this point.
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What will we do about Goro and Kintaro? They are supposed to be on the stronger side , but they lost to Stryker lol. I guess we can ignore that fight because its player driven and just say that they should be comparable to Motaro who would have killed Johnny Cage if Raiden didn't interfere.
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Yeah I think you can unsub since there isn't much for you to do here. We will call you when we sort things out here.
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So it seems that characters can be split in 3 groups:
1) Low-Mid tiers: 90% of the characters.
2) High tiers: Liu Kang, Shao Khan, Raiden, Fujin, Sindel, weakened Cetrion...
3) God tiers: Kronika, Fire God Liu Kang, Transfomed Cetrion...
Grandmaster Hanzo and Sub-zero would be somewhere between 1 and 2, and Shinok would be between 2 and 3.
1) Low-Mid tiers: 90% of the characters.
2) High tiers: Liu Kang, Shao Khan, Raiden, Fujin, Sindel, weakened Cetrion...
3) God tiers: Kronika, Fire God Liu Kang, Transfomed Cetrion...
Grandmaster Hanzo and Sub-zero would be somewhere between 1 and 2, and Shinok would be between 2 and 3.
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- #173
More or less.
I should note though, Nightwolf belongs somewhere between 1 and 2. He's clearly a lot stronger than most of the characters going by various showings; he repeatedly holds his own against higher tiers (Sindel being an obvious example) while also beating low/mid tiers on a very consistent basis. His revenant beat Shang Tsung 1-on-1 in a cutscene, and he himself was able to stagger Geras with a tomahawk when Shang Tsung and Fujin could barely do so with their powers.
The other thing is the Soul Crown. Characters who wear the Crown should obviously have different ratings with and without it; everyone who wears it becomes stronger to some degree, and this includes Kronika, who Fire God Liu beats while she's wearing it. Shang Tsung seems to get an even greater boost than anyone else does while wearing it (which kind of makes sense, given he's the one who made it and he ultimately planned for it to be his to use), since he goes from being nowhere near top-tier to being at least on the same level that Kronika is in base, even prior to absorbing the souls of Raiden, Fujin, numerous revenants, Shao Kahn and Sindel.
I'm not sure where to place Kronika without the Crown. I'm also not sure where to place Shang Tsung in base, since he has moments of keeping up with and even harming higher tiers (in Aftermath, at least) followed by moments of getting his ass kicked by lower tiers.
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Yeah I forgot about Nightwolf, he is very impressive. Its possible that he is even straight level 2, since he was able to survive the longest against amped Sindel, and was comparable to base Sindel that fought Cetrion and is comparable to Fujin.
Thats 100% true. He is at least level 2, maybe even level 3.
Well if you believe that base Kronika should still be comparable to transformed Cetrion then maybe level 3?
Maybe he is level 1 physically and level 2 with certain magic?
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I've talked about this off-site, but I'm in full agreement with both splitting the Midway and Neatherrealm stuff into either different profiles or different keys, and getting rid of stuff like Cetrion's size manipulation stuff for a tier rating.
Though I know Matt had some points about the Midway timeline being a lot stronger than previously suggested with stuff like Ermac's ending and the like.
Though I know Matt had some points about the Midway timeline being a lot stronger than previously suggested with stuff like Ermac's ending and the like.
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I thought that character endings are not canon?
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- #177
Some are, but most aren't. Pretty much none of the ones in the Current Timeline are, and only the ones from the Original Timeline that are referenced in later games count for anything.
The non-canon ones don't work as "alternate possibilities/potential events that never happened" either, for reasons I outlined in the OP.
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- #179
Not many, yet, but people are getting around to it. These things tend to take time.
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- #181
From what I was told some years back, translating that into joules (if at all possible) most likely wouldn't yield anything above Wall level.
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King makes sense
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Thanks! I doubt that lower tiers would be much above 9-B considering that all of the good feats are in the comic or the original timeline. Plus they are getting hurt by bullets. I see them being 9-A at most.
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Is the 5-A tier staying or nah? I know fatalities aren't going to be used because they are only used on already defeated opponents, but the 5-A scales from Cetrion merely growing in size and not directly attacking the opponent. (Just curious about this)
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- #188
I'm mostly just waiting on calcs at the moment. Once all of those are done, figuring out what ratings everyone is going to have should be much easier.
I really don't think that 5-A is staying, going by what's already been discussed in regards to that. As was said already, the scaling and overall portrayals within the story legitimately don't support that being a thing.
I really don't think that 5-A is staying, going by what's already been discussed in regards to that. As was said already, the scaling and overall portrayals within the story legitimately don't support that being a thing.
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- #190
No need. The calcs are already being done. It's just going to take time. The calc group members do have other things besides this to deal with.
I trust that they'll be done soon enough. Just need to be patient.
I trust that they'll be done soon enough. Just need to be patient.
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Yeah the 5-A rating is going to be removed. We're just collecting/waiting on stuff right now.
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I noticed how only Reptile seems to have Small Building level keys.
If this was intentional (or outdated), are characters like Baraka getting 9-A keys as well?
If this was intentional (or outdated), are characters like Baraka getting 9-A keys as well?
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Pretty much every profile is going to be updated
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So while we wait for some calcs, can we do some revisions for the Midway era characters? It would be nice to have some progress.
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I got a question, should we give Photographic Memory to Shang's profile? Might seem like a stretch to believe it but I do think I have enough proof to prove this claim.
It says on the page of PM that it "is a person's ability to remember and recall scenes, images, and/or information in perfect detail". Shang displays this ability through his shapeshifting abilities.
It says on the page of PM that it "is a person's ability to remember and recall scenes, images, and/or information in perfect detail". Shang displays this ability through his shapeshifting abilities.
- The description for his Shapeshifter's Training (Shang Tsung’s ages of practice allows him to utilize the power of several ninjas.) makes his mimicry ability quite unique. Instead of actually copying the opponent and their moves through mystical means, he actually trains himself in the arts of the techniques he observes. He only uses his powers to copy their form, weapons and powers, not their technique.
- Being able to use an opponent's technique or power straight after transforming into them would require some serious memorization especially when he's been copying people for many years. Thanks to his training, he can transform into someone and quickly and flawlessly perform their techniques without a second thought.
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