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VS Battles
Calculation Group
"Major minor" because this upgrade is a very small one but it affects a shitton of characters.

Basically all of the 9-A feats were casual feats. Kingpin crushed a rock effortlessly. Sam Wilson's feat was said to be a "bare minimum" by Alex.

Therefore we should upgrade the Kingpin/Daredevil level characters to "At least 9-A", and the likes of Captain America and Deadpool to "At least 9-A, likely higher".

I tried finding 8-C feats to scale for the likes for Cap, but had little success as most of the feats were unreliable. If someone has a usable 8-C feat I would appreciate that. For now we should simply rate them as "At least 9-A, likely higher" due to being significantly superior to the likes of Daredevil.

So yeah, just a small upgrade, but affects a lot of characters.
I'm currently gathering DC feats but if you like I can start finding some for the Marvel Street Bois (I can already remember seeing a few that'd likely get High 8-C or so)
There are multiple of them, but IIRC both Ant and Zark thinks those are outliers, plus explosion feats are unreliable in comics generally. Personally I'm neutral on that though.
Well, I think that as it is it's fine, but the context of the feats being casual and why should be added to the profiles if it's not already there.
It would be best if we can find a feat above 9-A that scales to Cap and co, but so far I had no luck finding a reliable feat.


No. We're not gonna pull off Post-Flashpoint DC levels of big brain, Daredevil's peak feats are 9-A, scaling Marvel street characters off of explosions is rarely any good considering writers massively exaggerate them and it has little to no relevance to their actual, non-boomey feats. Might I remind that absolute peak Daredevil villains crush a car in their usual best showcase.

Also I am personally iffy on Kingpin being just 9-A, he does hold a very significant superiority against the regular Daredevil cast and Punisher and such, to the point where I personally think it's better if we scale him to At least 9-A for the time being, unless there exist better feats for Cap and such.
Well there are 2 other 9-A feats for Falcon, and that was the bare minimum according to Alex.

Captain America and co should still be "At least 9-A, likely higher" since they are superior to Daredevil and Kingpin.
I suppose that I do not mind this change, but you should ask some of our other members who are knowledgeable about Marvel to give input here.
I'm good with Cap level people having the "At least 9-A" rating.
He used to be but he's been retconned in as being much weaker then Spidey (I remember there was a comic where he absolutely demolishes Fisk)

I agree Cap is stronger then Falcon (I'm just not big on assuming a tier gap but I know that's not getting changed)
Cap is considered to be slightly stronger than the Kingpin by the handbooks, but they are very unreliable.

If I remember correctly, when the Red Skull possessed a clone of Captain America's body that was equally strong, he was fairly trounced by the Kingpin in an official martial arts fight, and barely caused any damage.
Should we have two keys for Kingpin since he used to scale to Spidey?

Yeah, I remember Cap is generally portrayed as stronger than those "peak humans", although I do remember Kingpin matching Cap in a fight.
@Ant according to the page that's before the Cap Clone but if it's after that goes to show Fisk is pretty damn strong

I also remember him fighting BP though I would not be able to tell you if that's when he was deported
Yeah Kingpin should scale to Captain America tier for the time being, unless they're upgraded to further tiers, but anyhow Kingpin is consistently in a superior weight class to Daredevil as such his casual feats should be comparable feats to the current 9-A onlys
I think that it was after the Red Skull was resurrected in a Cap clone body.
I am uncertain about Falcon. He is physically supposed to be considerably weaker than Cap.
Falcon supposedly got on a somewhat comparable level to Captain America after regular training with the man, and considering he tends to have the same level of foes, he's in the Kingpin level difference IMO
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