Major Giygas Mindhax Revision & Mind Manipulation Addition

[Quibster]

I suggest you read my arguments from this thread...

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3469576#16

...before making any comments.

The TL;DR is Unsealed Giygas never uses his Passive Mindhax. My main argument is Pokey's quote, which is:

Giygas cannot think rationally anymore, and he isn't even aware of what he is doing now. His own mind was destroyed by his incredible power. What an all-mighty idiot! Yep, that's what he is! Heh heh heh heh... and you... you will be... just another meal to him!

Overall, I'd like to change over Unsealed Giygas's Passive Mindhax to Sealed Giygas. Unsealed Giygas will no longer have Passive Mindhax, and will instead be applied to his Sealed Form FRA.

Unless you can prove that this form of Giygas can use mindhax, to me, Giygas is just known for his Passive Void Manipulation. Pokey even refers to it by saying:

Heh heh heh heh... and you... you will be... just another meal to him!

Also, I have some concerns as to whether or not you must possess a mind in order to perform Mind Manipulation, and I think that the resulting answer should be added to the Mind Manipulation Profile

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Your quote from Pokey already proves he still has passive mind hax in this key. Why the f**k would a sealed form have better stats then an unsealed self what kind of sensible logic does that even make. Common sense and your direct quote debunks your premise. Meaning you don't even have a premise.

 

[Quibster]

Okay, language dude. Would Pokey call Giygas an All-miighty Idiot without not being under Giygas's influence? I'm pretty sure Giygas would clap Pokey across the cave. But wait, he doesn't have a mind. Also, don't derail my thread. I'm asking some legitimate questions. I don't appreciate the rudeness.

To further prove this, would Giygas want Pokey to turn the Devil's Machine off? Pokey acted upon his own will in that scenario. Pokey was not under Giygas's influence. Giygas was already invincible with his passive reflecting shields.

Also, this thread isn't just about Giygas. Read it all before going on a tirade. Do you need to have a mind in order to perform mind manipulation? Giygas is stated to have his mind destroyed.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Asides from "f**k" I didn't say anything else or over swear. That's a moot point too. Regardless apologies if you took it as hostile or whatever. Yes, he would. He literally resists giygas mind manip, he's attacking Ness throughout the game cause he thought Ness was no longer his friend. He leaves before Giygas does anything to him and Goygas is attacking the rest of the chosen 4. You are not asking questions you are doing a revision, two different things. Asides from the curse and telling you that your premise is very illogical (which i proceeded tonexplain why it was) I wasn't rude. That's not what derail is either.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

I agree with Giver. I've also noted out stuff on that Giygas vs Dark Dragon (which also needs to be closed btw since it's a stomp and being derailed a lot)

 

[Quibster]

My point still stands. Giygas in his unstable form never used mindhax, or PK. It's only assumed that he can. But the game itself never says or shows otherwise.

Also. Aside from this. Do you need a Mind to use Mind Manipulation? People keep dodging this question and it's really starting to get on my nerves.

Edit: Gonna close that match. I only posted it here for when people make arguements that've already been discussed. That match is too derailed to even conclude anyways.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

I don't think so, Giver and I (within the DD vs Giygas thread) disproved your claims.

As for your other question, I dunno. I'm mostly focused on what truly matters the most here.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

You obviously doesnt need a mind to use mindhax on others

 

[Quibster]

Disproved? How exactly did you disprove anything? All you did was shit on the game's quotes, which is what we take information from. Itoi wouldn't write these things into his game if they weren't true.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Giygas does in fact have a bit of his mind intact (ex being able to speak and is aware of who he is fighting), which would then contradict most of what Pokey said about Giygas.

 

[Quibster]

Okay, that's atleast one person who's said anything on the: Do you need a mind to use mind manupulation. Can we atleast add that to the Mind Manipulation Profile, or does someone disagree with what he says?

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Disproved? How exactly did you disprove anything? All you did was shit on the game's quotes, which is what we take information from. Itoi wouldn't write these things into his game if they weren't true.

Maybe we should take a break, eh? That sort of behavior isn't tolerable here.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

I'm somewhat split down the middle on all of this. If Gigue's presence can mindhax an opponent, I don't really see why unsealed Giygas's wouldn't be able to do the same on a much higher scale. On the other hand Pokey shit talking Giygas right to his face does raise some eyebrows.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

He still refers to him as "Master" tho and just brags all day on how powerful Giygas is.

I don't really think it's just trash talking tbh, and really? Trash talking? That's supposed to disprove Mind hax? Give me something more legit.

 

[Quibster]

"All-mighty Idiot"

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

That means absolutely nothing here. Completely irrelevant.

 

[Quibster]

Nice edit. Also, stop deflecting.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Look, I'm just saying that a simple "trash" talk doesn't even come close to disproving anything. Or have any relevancy here considering Pokey is still loyal and talks all day on how his master is all powerful against The Chosen 4 and is highly confident that he will be victorious. You got any other proof besides that?

 

[Quibster]

You completely dismiss any and all claims without reasons as to why. The bottom line is, the game never shows that unsealed Giygas has mindhax. You just keep assuming he has mindhax in this form. All Giygas really did was make Pokey evil. And look how that backfired at the all-mighty idiot in the end.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

I'm leaning on a disagree with the removal of Unsealed. or you can just change it from mindhax to social influencing

 

[The_Wright_Way]

Can both sides calm down? Sheesh.

 

[Quibster]

Social Influencing fits Giygas's profile. I agree with ChocomilkAlex after giving it a look.

Edit: Holy crap derp

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

THAT WAS A JOKE

 

[Quibster]

Welp, On second thought, maybe not. Gave it another looksie. Derp.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Can both sides calm down? Sheesh.

But I am calm... No need to worry, all is going fine.

Anyway, you really haven't provided me with anything new thus far, the most I've seen is either Giygas is mindless (disproven), the game not showing anything (which by the way, what good is mind hax when Ness has Resistance, he can't really manipulate ones mind if all is gone) or that Pokey has some degree of Resistance because he trashed talk (also disproven). We both even talked about this on the DD vs Giygas thread. The same thing has been brought up a lot. He's the embodiment of evil after all, his mind hax makes people evil of which almost worked on Ness (but worked on Pokey to act as a right hand man since his mind was just going monkey mode).

What's your point? It didn't even back fire at all, you're saying it like Pokey had some direct involvement after he had shut down the Devils machine. As if he betrayed him. Is that what I'm getting at?

Also no, social influencing is a big nope. Giygas just wants to destroy the universe not became its no leader or whatever.

 

[Quibster]

Can someone atleast prove to me that the game itself says or shows that this form of Giygas has mindhax? If so, I'll dismiss the Giygas revision.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

I don't think so? Not from I recall, but what is that supposed to mean? The game doesn't specify that Giygas loses his ability in his true form. He's an abstract representation of evil itself, I don't even see why he would lose such an ability.

 

[Quibster]

Also, last time I checked, "All-mighty idiot" = Disrespectful insult.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

This again? I thought we went over this many times already. It doesn't disprove anything at all, it's just one thing Pokey says and then he immediately follows up with another taunt to the chosen 4 saying that they will be another meal to Giygas. Bam, done. Can we move on now?

Seriously, I don't even know why that's supposed to disprove Mind hax.

 

[Quibster]

I've already proven that Giygas's mind had been, and I quote "destroyed" after being unsealed. Pokey specifically states this in the game's dialogue. All you've done is deem it as "some random quote". That proves nothing.

Never said Pokey had a resistance to mindhax because Unsealed Giygas doesn't have Mindhax. People always assume that he retains this ability, but he's transcended his dimensional existence. His abilities are beyond that of PK. Even the kids "couldn't comprehend the true form of Giygas' attack", and they're psychic.

You're right about one thing though. Giygas wants to destroy the universe. Why would he need mindhax (Which he doesn't show to have in this form), when you can swallow the universe in darkness. Wasn't that his goal? To "sentence all of reality to the horror of infinite darkness"? I don't see why you would need mindhax in this state when you could just erase everything around you. Mindhax in this form doesn't fit Giygas at all.

All of the quotes are from the game itself, and from the Earthbound Fandom Wiki

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Hate to be that guy, but usually when a character "transcends their dimensional existence" their hax abilities transcend along with them. Using that logic Giygas' mindhax would become 4D.

 

[Quibster]

Ugh, here we go again...

 

[Quibster]

I'm just going to wait and see what other people have to say about this. My brain hurts so much right now.

Edit: I appreciate all of your inputs. In means a ton to me, despite the brain-flexing arguements we all have to produce.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

I don't know why we can't just direclty upscale Giygas from Giegue (even though we do on jah.) If Giegue's mere prescence can mindhax you, I don't see why Giygas' shouldn't.

 

[Quibster]

Like I said, Pokey said that Giygas' mind had been destroyed upon being unsealed. Which begs the question: Do you need a mind in order to perform mindhax?

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Well, partially yes, but man are you really ignoring what I've been saying most of the time. That really just means that Giygas is just went full insano mode (probably not the best choice of word, but you get my drift). As I said for the 1,000,000,000th time already (which I'm not really bothered by it, don't worry) Giygas is still capable of English and is fully aware of who he is fighting, such as addressing Ness a lot to either get out or just wanting express his "feelings" (well sorta).

I mean, in Earthbound Beginnings it says "The form of Giegues attack is explicable!" most likely meaning that Giegue has insanely high AP. The same can apply here as the "You cannot grasp the true form of Giygas' attack!" are still translated as PSI regardless, as they induce multiple Status effect and have similar effects as PSI Freeze, Flash, and Thunder. So they are still PSI.

Firstly, after Mother 1 (his intentions was simply that he was tasked to take over Earth since PSI was being passed around the planet because of George. Of course, in the inside he did not want to do this.) he was slowly transforming into Giygas, so he had to be sealed in the Devils machine so he can hold back all of his powers and so he can have most of his mind intact. He was also made informed that he will be defeated by 4 childrens (Ness, Paula, Jeff, and Poo), and so he wanted to prevent that from happening. So ye. Giygas is nearly mindless, so I doubt he would have true intentions. And being the embodiment of evil itself, I could simply say that he would have mind hax. If he had lost mind hax, then he wouldn't really have the title of being evil itself.

He still has mind hax regardless, doesn't disprove anything.

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Hate to be that guy, but usually when a character "transcends their dimensional existence" their hax abilities transcend along with them. Using that logic Giygas' mindhax would become 4D.

Giygas's mind hax is already 4D. Though would that make his PSI abilities 4D...?

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

It would make his mindhax 44D idfk

 

[TheQuirkyBoy]

Whoa, 1-B Mind hax? Nice, I'll take it.

 

[ChocomilkAlex]

Like I said, Pokey said that Giygas' mind had been destroyed upon being unsealed. Which begs the question: Do you need a mind in order to perform mindhax?

Not really? I mean if Giegue's his mere prescence can cause things like insanity it's not out of the question to say that he even if Giegue was mindless, he'd still be able to passively make you go bruh mode. Causing insanity is still a form of mindhax.