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Major Fate Revisions

We should call the all knowing Fate Extra Expert, since he is also one of the few people with the means to check the original japanese
 
1. No. The entire upgrade is pretty much "they mentioned light so surely it must be lightspeed". Also moving at high enough speed and your saint graph is destroyed.

BB: Well, theoretically that's true. Only in terms of coordinates, though.

But after coming to SE.RA.PH once, it isn't that easy to escape from Kiara-san's Eros power…no, gravitational pull.

You would need speed that surpasses even light.

No, it's easy to reach light speed since this place is digitalized, but the spiritrons that form your Saint Graphs wouldn't be able to take it.

Attempting that would render even the Saint Graph of an A rank Servant useless.

2. It's Higashide he didn't understand what he was doing and just wanted to make a romantic ending like the Fate Route where Shirou goes to Avalon.

3. Eh maybe, not sure on the wiki's take on atomization

4. Doesn't scale to anyone. Probably not even to the Moon Cell itself as BB couldn't do that.

5. That only applies when they are actually dispatched as Counter Guardians and even then they are basically drones of the Counter Force so I would rather not add that.

6. That's not that important so why even bother mentioning it.

7. Because that's still an ability that they have access to? If we went by that logic we would remove Ozy's NP seal because it only affects people with Noble Phantasms.

Also people can use command spells for other things as they are a great source of magical energy. Just look at Kirei during the Fourth War and Gudao.

Goetia: Why, why have you fought this far---!

You: The answer's obvious...!

You activate your command spell, turning its magical energy into your strength.

8. I'm rewriting pretty much all the Servant profiles and adding all their abilities. I will get to the outdated ones in time. I would appreciate if you didn't go around adding random stuff like ignores conventional durability to people like Enkidu when you don't understand how their abilities actually work.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Considering BB who can delete people couldn't do anything to him, probably, but I'll leave that to somone more knowledgeable about Extra
Click to expand...
You'd have to give someone like Gilgamesh resistence to Existence Erasure as well, seeing as the Moon Cell can't deal with him in any way, including erasing him.
 
If you give it to Karna, you have to give it to Gilgamesh as well. Plus, Gilgamesh is the only one capable of existing in the "unreformed" Far Side and it's stated that anyone else would get erased.

Not really sure about other Servants. I don't think they have any feats that would imply resistance to EE.
 
Super gimped Arc was also resisting the Moon Cell trying to reject her. Saver wasn't deleted either. So if Karna and Gil gets it then Saver and Arc also gets it. But I'll let someone else decide.
 
Ramesses the Sun King said:
snip
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1. Already got rejected based on the wiki's policy on dodging light anyway

2. that may be a meta reason, but they do say she is a special case anyway, hence why it works for the in universe exaplanation

3. Couldn't find a page or blog about it, other than it being referenced on the Regenerationn and existence erasure pages (in that existence erasure is superior). I kinda feel like pitching an Atomic destruction power page

4. Someone pointed out it would scale to Akasha indirectly, I guess. I don't see how having 8D barriers wouldn't apply to the moon cell, even if it doesn't have a profile

5. Um... both of the EMIYA are shown to still have their personalities. I don't see what basis you have that they are mindless drones any more then they are in normal servant form, nor how that would disqualify them from being worth a key. If this is a wiki about cataloguing powers and abilities, then it seems to be a segnificant enough difference that it should be added. It is simple but important

6. I mentioned it because they are segnificant statistics changes to an already contraversial character, and a weird case when it comes to servants switching classes on whim. Doesn't matter anyway, since it was already being discussed and underway

7. The way I saw it, before learning it can be used for personal enhancement, was that it was like a Pokeball. Ozy's NP still functions due to verse equalisation, considering Omae wa Mou Shindeiru is close enough. Unless I'm wrong and his doesn't get sealed or something.

Wow didn't know they could be used for magical sources. In that case yeah, its worth having on their, but it should be put that it can be used for magical sources

8. Alright great, I'll be happy to help in any way I can. I'll take the L on the Enkidu page tho, completely messed that one up. I do think he should be able to bypass durability via weapons he creates tho, but I guess that's not worth noting
 
As a fan of The fate series here's my opinion.

2. I want to say yes but I'm not sure if this is True Heroic Spirit Jean or Servant Jean, personally I don't think this warents a base speed level because this was only possible due to her going from the ToH to RSotW directly and not through a medium, maybe as a 'possibly' because the page is for the Servant Ruler not the Heroic Spirit Jeanne.

4. as a statment for cosomology alone it seems fine, assuming the Japanese text matches.
 
As both of my hands are injured I probably won't reply again.

Jeanne is not a special Heroic Spirit or case, the only reason she can be considered special is because she can be summoned as Ruler.

That statement just states that as she is a Heroic Spirit in the throne she can reach the reverse side due to being outside of time giving her infinite attempts. Which doesn't make sense since that would imply The Heroic Spirit Jeanne is no longer in the Throne of Heroes. Plus that contradicts everything we know about the Throne of Heroes.

Also if we take everything that happens in Appc and don't call out the inconsistencies we get 5-A Sieg with Command Seal Boosted Balmung.

Counter Guardians when summoned by the World and powered by the Counter Force works as mindless "power". IIRC Archer even says that becoming a Counter Guardian is the same as becoming a force of nothing. So really it's them acting as proxies for the World so I don't think they should get a key.
 
Iapitus The Impaler said:
Ramesses the Sun King said:
snip
Click to expand...
1. Already got rejected based on the wiki's policy on dodging light anyway
2. that may be a meta reason, but they do say she is a special case anyway, hence why it works for the in universe exaplanation


1- Sorry man. Any argument anyone could make for it got shot down in Extella. it elaborated on how Excalibur works and how it is just raw mana. it isnt transformed into light. otherwise, it wouldnt have worked on Velber.


2- Servants that come in directly from the Throne can show up virtually anywhere they want. in cyberspace, the dimension of imaginary numbers, (fairly positive that they can show up in) dreams,etc... so yeah, not much to use there either
Click to expand...
 
2 things though:

1- this, which i think should be added to Gil's arsenal, given how his gate of babylon works and how the axe is a NP


"And that was not all. The officers had the feeling that the more they attacked the man called
Jester, the more their own strength was sapped.
An axe-wielder who had begun to draw out the power of his Noble Phantasm fired off a
"slash that ignores distance to cut down the enemy"... but, while he could feel the attack connect,
he could not manage to knock so much as a single hair on Jester's head out of place."


2- was it ever confirmed that it was Anastacia that froze the planet in the lostbelt story from new year's? i saw people on beast lair bring it up and no one corrected that person.
 
Ramesses the Sun King said:
snip
Click to expand...
that's fine

She cannot be manifested without a host, and as the guide states, this is apparently why the special case of her applies. I think you are missing what I'm saying, this isn't the record Jeanne, this is a spirit jeanne not bound to her body

Did I claim we were going to? No.

The Counter Force does, not Counter Guardians. He has enough personality to regret his choices and show remorse. Force of nothing is more in reference to nihilism more than anything, not in the literal sense, nor do I see how that would proclude them from having a key. We know that Assassin EMIYA is close to emotionless, but it is implied he is a special case, not the rule. Even he does still have a personality that shows through. When we see Archer EMIYA summoned on behalf of the counter force, we see that he still has the same personality and emotions that he did as a normal servant. EMIYA Alter is closer to what you describe, but even he is not a mindless force, even if he kills indescriminately. Working as an force or proxy for a higher power doesn't preclude having a key or profile, take Black Racer.
 
While we can wait for his imput on the Fate/Extra stuff, because he is probably one of the few users with the resources to check the original japanese and is very knowledgable on Fate/Extra. Do we know how long his hands will be injured? We have knowledgable members on the other topics, and as much as I dislike it and know how it feels to completely revise things in ones absense, we should probably move forward with the others

Also, why doesn't he come on this page and give his imput?
 
Im just going to take this from typemoon wiki, because I dont want to read Apocrypha again.

2.Although she is to act as the impartial mediator between the two factions, she feels a foreboding in that there is someone unknown she must encounter, Shirou, that takes precedence over her role as mediator. Rather than being given a spiritual body, she instead possesses a human girl named Laeticia, a willing host, due to the previous Ruler still existing.
 
@Iapitus Yes she can. She only possesses a human host in Apoc because there already is a Ruler Servant, which causes problems with her summoning and some Ruler abilities. The Heroic Spirit Jeanne has nothing to do with that.

No that is Record Jeanne as she is in the Throne of Heroes trying to do that, which contradicts everything we know about the Throne. Also that statement doesn't say that she is special, it just says that Jeanne doesn't have a body as a Heroic Spirit thus she can reach the reverse side from the Throne as she has infinite attempts.

No. There is a difference between summoning them as Servants and when the Counter Force summons them. When summoned as Counter Guardians they are utilized as mindless Counter Force. Additionally we have never seen them in Counter Guardian form so we shouldn't give them Counter Guardian keys.
 
Ramesses the Sun King said:
@Iapitus Yes she can. She only possesses a human host in Apoc because there already is a Ruler Servant, which causes problems with her summoning and some Ruler abilities. The Heroic Spirit Jeanne has nothing to do with that.
No that is Record Jeanne as she is in the Throne of Heroes trying to do that, which contradicts everything we know about the Throne. Also that statement doesn't say that she is special, it just says that Jeanne doesn't have a body as a Heroic Spirit thus she can reach the reverse side from the Throne as she has infinite attempts.

No. There is a difference between summoning them as Servants and when the Counter Force summons them. When summoned as Counter Guardians they are utilized as mindless Counter Force. Additionally we have never seen them in Counter Guardian form so we shouldn't give them Counter Guardian keys.
Click to expand...
Fair enough, however, would her ability to perform those acts, despite being a plot hole, disqualify that she got the ability to do them even if it is non sensicle?


Other than the enhanced stats, no there isn't. Boi I think you forgot that we see Archer as a counter guardian in episode 12 of season 2 of UBW. After Gil killed him several episodes back, he is resummoned by the force to resolve the issues in Fuyuki. He very clearly still has his personality, emotions, will, etc. The Counter Force is mindless, The Counter Guadians are not.
 
... He's not resummoned, he's just still alive.
 
Monarch Laciel said:
Going to point out the "gold dust thing" happens any time a servant turns to spirit form.
Although it does seem unlikely another servant would have been fooled.
Click to expand...
fair enough, pretty sure Gil would have finished the job if he could tell he was still alive. Also Archer was totally healed when he showed up, after getting ******* rekt by Gil before
 
Archer's explicitly stated to be capable of surviving lethal damage to his spiritual core in Fate/Material, IIRC, which is an obvious reference to that, thanks to Independent Action
 
Surviving isn't what I have issues with, its that he doesn't have a scratch on him. his wounds were Above what he can regenerate from. He looked brand new. iirc he was already almost completely out when Gil maimed him
 
I'm not backing up Iapitus's counter guardian theory here, but it seems kinda unlikely that Archer turned to spirit form and flew away after being impaled through the back several times, and neither Gilgamesh or Saber noticed / cared enough to mention that he was leaving.
 
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