Major Dormammu Revision

[ByAsura]

@Zark As I said, I agree. It happened for 3 issues and was the result of some once in a lifetime amp.

@Hykuu They went directly to Eternity's realm. Lifebringer Galactus and other characters have also done the same.

 

[Antvasima]

So this was due to a temporary power-up then, not a misrepresentation of his actual power? Should we list this in Dormammu's page then after all?

 

[LordTracer]

It was due to a shift in the cosmic axis, but it's never stated if Dormammu's last incarnation actually existed before or after said shift occurred, and it did last the entire run, but that fact is overshadowed due to him absorbing Eternity. And of course I think it should be listed, whether considered an amp or not because of how major it is to Dormammu's history (a stance reiterated by the guidebooks), it's his final (Classic) form and how it led to him becoming the honestly quite pathetic villain he is today.

 

[Hykuu]

We have no proof that's what lead to him being Modern Dormammu as I still think it's ignored by Continuity but ok, it lasted for the entire run being 5 issues, with King of Hell Blackheart's key being removed iirc and Mad God Genis lasting for around 15 issues or so

 

[Hykuu]

@Zark As I said, I agree. It happened for 3 issues and was the result of some once in a lifetime amp.
@Hykuu They went directly to Eternity's realm. Lifebringer Galactus and other characters have also done the same.

Yes but they went into that with the Amulet, I am talking about them using the Multiverse's energy to fight Eternity and not reaching his realm

 

[LordTracer]

Blackheart still has his King of Hell key, actually. It was just downgraded to 2-C instead of 2-A.

 

[ByAsura]

There's no indication Umar and Dormammu used the Multiverse's energy to fight Eternity. It was never even brought up or implied, and just treated as a door way to reach Eternity and steal his power. Also, you missed the edit: "It was just to access the nexus by shredding the fabric of reality. There's no indication they even used [the amulet] in the fight."

 

[LordTracer]

Also I don't think it's too much of a stretch to say Umar depowering him led to Modern Dormammu. Because in basically everything following Defenders V3, Dormammu was portrayed as so much weaker. The only thing that portrayed him anywhere close to where he once was afaik was A+X #15, where the Flames of Regency were portrayed as 2-A. Also Umar depowered Dormammu to 4-B, at most, and coincidentally that's the level Dormammu has been at nowadays.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that Brian Bendis and other writers simply did not care about continuity or consistent characterisation as usual, and started to portray Dormammu as a weak pushover in order to make their own pet characters look good.

 

[LordTracer]

Fair enough, but at least Umar would give an in-continuity reason for Dormammu's pathetic showings as of late.

 

[Antvasima]

When he next showed up I think that it was stated that he overthrew and killed Umar. However, Umar was later resurrected by the Wishing Well in an Incredible Hulk storyline.

 

[Hykuu]

There's no indication Umar and Dormammu used the Multiverse's energy to fight Eternity. It was never even brought up or implied, and just treated as a door way to reach Eternity and steal his power. Also, you missed the edit: "It was just to access the nexus by shredding the fabric of reality. There's no indication they even used [the amulet] in the fight."

I'm talking about the Cosmic Axis, did you see my comment about it?

 

[ByAsura]

I thought you meant the nexus, sorry. Anyway, the point is that he was amped by the Axis and this isn't some outlier, rather an increase in power.

 

[Antvasima]

So should he get a High 1-B "Amplified by the Cosmic Axis" key?

 

[Hykuu]

Yes it isn't an outlier, but it shouldn't be scaled to Base Dormammu at all is what I'm saying

Also, if we scale Eternity's hax to Dormammu in that comic, there's no reason we don't make a Multi-Eternity Dormammu key

 

[ByAsura]

@Ant I'm not sure myself, since it appeared quite briefly, but I'm certainly not opposed to the idea.

@Hykuu It's not going to be. It'll be a separate key.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I do not mind. We have listed similar external power-ups for Thanos for example.

 

[LordTracer]

So, his keys would be like; 2-A (Base) | High 1-B (Amplified by the Cosmic Axis) | High 1-B (After absorbing Multiversal Eternity)? I'm fine with that.

 

[ByAsura]

The Cosmic Axis and Multi-Eternity stuff could be one key, honestly. It's an even further amp, but not really a tier upwards or another power-up in a different storyline.

 

[Hykuu]

Agreed

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, so just 2-A (Base) | High 1-B (Amplified by the Cosmic Axis).

 

[Hykuu]

High 1-B (Merged with Multi Eternity) is better than just the cosmic axis key imo

 

[LordTracer]

Well a lot of the High 1-B stuff comes from the Cosmic Axis as opposed to the absorption of Multi-Eternity. I'd have thought his justification would say something along the lines of:

High Hyperverse level ([insert pre-Eternity absorption AP justification here]. Became even stronger after absorbing multiversal Eternity's essence and threatened to destroy the entire multiverse)

Or:

High Hyperverse level ([insert pre-Eternity absorption AP justification here]), higher after absorbing Multiversal Eternity

 

[The_Impress]

Second option seems fine IMO

 

[Antvasima]

Dormammu didn't absorb Multi-Eternity, just part of the latter's power.

Other than that I am fine with the second option.

 

[ByAsura]

He absorbed the full thing. Doctor Strange says just absorbing a fraction would be a terrible thing for everyone.

 

[LordTracer]

Okay, so would this be fine for his complete justification?

High Hyperverse level (With the help of Umar, he was able to defeat Multiversal Eternity. Stated that he could conquer the multiverse and melt all creation into a pool of cosmic slag. Consumed a council of pandimensional beings. Had control over a pandimensional army and killed a large portion of them in a fit of rage), higher after absorbing Multiversal Eternity's essence (Gained the power of Multiversal Eternity. Threatened to destroy the entire multiverse)

 

[LordTracer]

Also something interesting I found, though I'm not entirely sure what it would mean. When he stole Doctor Strange's body, Dormammu stated that he hasn't remembered what time and space felt like for a significant amount of time. Would that imply it had no sway over him, or something else?

 

[Hykuu]

Wouldn't the higher make people think Eternity is 1-A

 

[LordTracer]

I don't think so, especially since it links to Eternity's profile that shows he's only High 1-B.

 

[Antvasima]

I also think that we should skip the "higher" rating.

 

[LordTracer]

So, should I merge it into one justification, or do you think Dormammu with the power of Eternity should be a separate key?

 

[Antvasima]

Here is a slightly modified version:

High Hyperverse level (With the help of Umar, he was able to defeat Multi-Eternity. Stated that he could conquer the multiverse and melt all creation into a pool of cosmic slag. Consumed a council of pandimensional beings. Had control over a pandimensional army and killed a large portion of them in a fit of rage. He later absorbed the power of Multi-Eternity, and threatened to destroy the entire multiverse.)

 

[LordTracer]

That works.

 

[Antvasima]

I am fine with that being applied then.

 

[LordTracer]

I can make the changes then.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Remember to copy-paste my version of the text, and tell me here when you are done.

 

[LordTracer]

Changes have been made. Only thing that still needs to be addressed is this.

Also something interesting I found, though I'm not entirely sure what it would mean. When he stole Doctor Strange's body, Dormammu stated that he Dormammu hasn't remembered what time and space felt like for a significant amount of time. Would that imply it had no sway over him, or something else?

 

[LordTracer]

Wait, I forgot to add two images. Don't lock the page yet.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.