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Majin Buu and Gotenks' Vice Shout Scaling

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As I have already proved the ability is just screaming with raw power as stated by Piccolo, and whoever crosses that threshold limit can do it, as in examples already provided. So I think this thread is just going in circles at this point with no new arguments made.

Can we apply the changes now?
 
I personally do not mind, but it depends on what the rest of the staff thinks.
 
I see.

Ryukama said the same thing. So you, Ryu, Ever, PaChi and SD don't seem to have any problems with it, then.

Cal's main point was that it's a specific technique, which I've already answered above. And Dark just agreed with Cal.
 
So, which characters would this apply to?
 
If it is applied, a "Likely" would probably be best to add, if the ability has not been explicitly demonstrated.
 
Yes, I agree with "Limited Space-Time Manipulation" for Vegeta, Goku, Kale and Caulifla.

And "Likely limited Space-Time Manipulation (By opening a hole in the fabric of Space-Time)" for the rest who scale above ssj3 Gotenks.
 
Well, as I mentioned, I do not personally mind, but we should wait for the other staff members to reply.
 
I agree with this, since Piccolo stated that this ability can be replicated with sheer power alone.
 
Did Kukui really just say that Guldo can't use Energy blasts??

At this point, everyone against this is making an argument from ignorance-- stating that the characters who are stronger than the ones who replicated this "Vice Shout" (not the official name, nor was it stated to be a technique in the Manga, if we want to stick to pure canon) feat using SHEER POWER alone cannot do the same because they haven't shown it. It's a misapplication of logic that would work in any other verse, and ignores the mechanics of DB and the obvious truth that this shit can be done with sheer power, and logic would dictate that anyone stronger than super Buu should be able to replicate the feat.

Stop trying to imply that this feat is a technique. It's not. It's just a feat. Stop trying to make a false equivalency between the Kamehameha, a technique, and a limited space-time warping feat. Are we really going to argue that TOP Krillin can't shake the planet and cause Earthquakes with his Ki like Nappa (who did it because of Sheer Power and not some damn special technique) just because we haven't seen him do it?

Are we really going to try and say that Guldo-- an alien who knew how to fly using Ki-- can't use an energy blast. Even though Gohan had to teach Videl how to make an energy sphere before she could learn how to fly-- how countless other DB characters couldn't fly but found using Ki attacks Easy-- how based on these things it would be more illogical to assume he can't use ki blasts in some way because of how the series conveys that it's more difficult to learn how to fly than it us to throw a Ki blast.

Can anyone use their Ki to harden their body? Don't recall anyone but Goku doing that explicitly. Can Whis not use an energy blast?

Look, I understand skepticism, but if we're using this level, rhen we might as well never powerscale in any verse because, after all, we don't know if X character can do the same thing Y character does, even though they share the same reasons why they are able to do Z feat.
 
Vice Shout isn't a technique with any special mechanics or methods of achiving it. It's not even a technique. It's just screaming. So TheC2's argument is invalid.
 
I find it a bit odd that we vehemently refuse to use the manga for anything ever cause it's noncanon, yet are using the DB Wiki and video games to prove this is a technique.

Even Xenoverse's description supports this is raw power.

"Fire a Ki Wave powerful enough to warp time and space from your mouth and blow your enemy away."

Obviously no one is or should get their tier upgraded via this shout. However going by explicit statements in the manga, its showings and even explicit statements from sources trying to be used to debunk that, the "Vice Shout" is really just someone screaming with a certain amount of strength. Therefore people who are vastly stronger than Gotenks like UI Goku, Jiren, Beerus, Whis, etc. I believe it's fine to say they'd be able to do this as well.

Again, the only problem people are having is that we don't view breaking dimensional barriers as quantifiable AP feats (which we shouldn't) If Gotenks had destroyed a planet by screaming instead, no one would be trying to say Grand Priest couldn't perfom the same feat of strength.
 
This method also applies to certain resistances, guess we will add them as well.
 
Yes, it wouldn't be an AP feat. However if that Buuhan screaming feat was canon, people would be screaming universes away, as Vegito stated in the anime "If he doesn't stop screaming, the universe will be crushed by alternate dimensions!"

However...it's unquantifiable, so even if we were to use it for non-canon profiles, it wouldn't matter.
 
That feat is in the discussion rules because it was discussed and debunked infinite times.
 
But isn't a reason why we don't talk about it because of the fact that it's Non-canon anyway? "Vice Shout" is Canon.
 
I think that Ryukama seems to make sense.
 
So, he can fly-- which can be logically deduced to be more difficult to do than using Energy blasts by the series itself. I already said Gohan had to teach Videl how to project ki spheres before she could learn to fly. Goku, Roshi, Krillin, many characters couldn't fly but could throw blasts with ease, even Fodder Frieza Soldiers could do it. If Guldo is skilled enough to learn how to fly, I don't think it's a stretch to say he can throw an energy blast. This is like saying the Tsuchikage can't walk on water, something every ninja above Genin level has been able to do.

Flying is harder to do than firing energy blasts, as many characters were unable to fly in early DB despite the fact that they can easily fire energy blasts, on top of the fact that Videl's training heavily implies learning to project Ki is necessary to learning how to fly. Videl made a fricken energy sphere, and (whether or not this is still Canon or not is unknown) Gohan published books that taught everyone to use energy blasts and Ki and shit. Even if Dragonball Online isn't Canon anymore, Videl is a relatively normal human, nowhere near as talented as even Yamcha, and he knew how to fire energy. Primal Aliens with no intelligence at all can use Ki and fly too, nevermind the fact that it seems like most aliens just have natural talent with this Ki stuff. Pan knew how to fly and release her aura before she could even talk. Gohan learned how to fire Ki blasts by himself-- that's how he cooked lizard tails to eat. The only character who I would doubt have the ability to fly but not use Energy blasts would be Dende from Name saga. But even then, I have a hard time accepting the idea that Dende can't create a ball of Chi-- but he can fly and heal people. Dende might not have any potency with his Ki blasts, but I am certain he can at least do what Videl did. The only other idea that supports Dende not being able to fire lasers is that he's a child that has no inclination for combat. Whereas Guldo is an Elite Ginyu Force member who should have some skill with Ki Manipulation comparable to initial Kid Goku at the least.

If Guldo can fly with a decent amount of skill, and he's supposed to be an Elite Warrior (even if he's just there because of his hax), he must likely be able to throw an energy blast. If you're argument is that none of the characters I mentioned above are Guldo, and just because they can fire energy blasts doesn't mean Guldo can, I would only agree with that statement if the idea that flight, being an alien in Dragon Ball, and being a fighter of any worth in Dragon Ball doesn't imply some minor form of Ki Energy projection.

I will repeat what I said before, it makes less sense for Guldo to be unable to manipulate Ki in a way even comparable to Initial Kid Goku and Gohan, given the context surrounding his placement in the verse and skill set, as well as how those skills seem to correlate with each other.

Your reasoning seems to be the fact that we have no concrete evidence that he can fire an energy blast or even create an energy sphere, that he can't do it. Meaning your conclusion is based on a lack of evidence, rather than any ideas surrounding your conclusion to support it. Making it argument from ignorance.

This is a greater leap in logic than to assume he can do it.

TL DR: Kukui, why do you refuse to make logical assumptions and remain in disbelief whenever there is no hard evidence to prove you wrong-- despite the fact that the context around the verse can give you an answer that is likely possible? If Guldo's profile in your head doesn't have offensive and utility Ki Manipulation, it should at the very least be listed as "Likely," just as everyone stronger than Gotenks should have limited Space-time Manipulation.
 
I completely agree with this scaling to pretty much anyone stronger than Gotenks and Buu.

It's not a specific ability. It's flat-out stated in the manga to be related to raw strength, thus anyone above them should scale.

Chapter: 493 (DBZ 299), P7.1

Context: Super Saiyan Gotenks and Piccolo fail to open up a dimensional hole like Boo did

Piccolo: "It-it's no use…Not even so much as a needle-sized hole will open up…!"

Not even a needle-sized would open up, because they simply were not strong enough.

Chapter: 493 (DBZ 299), P9.2-3, P10.3-4

Context: right after Gotenks transforms into a Super Saiyan 3

Piccolo: "Wh-what's happened to yo-you…!?"

Gotenks: "Don't ask me, I don't know. Hehhe~~eh, that freaked you out, didn't it!? But I'm super-duper strong!"

*he screams and opens up a big hole*

Gotenks: "I did it!"

Gotenks is now far stronger than before, at least on par with Boo, and therefore he can easily replicate Boo's feat. Once again, it's flat-out implied to be a strength-related ability.
 
Well, me and Ryukama think that it should be okay at least.
 
I brought it back by saying that what should be put on their power list is "likely limited space-time Manipulation via Vice Shout". But yeah, if it's ok with you guys, then lit.
 
I am going on vacation though, so somebody else would have to help you with temporarily unlocking profiles, and then locking them again.
 
I can do it. Plenty of free-time on weekends.

Just give me a list of the profiles that need to be changed. There's a lot on DBZ.
 
Your reply has a lot of unneccesary stuff in it, some of which seems like targeted insults at me. But im going to ignore that incase it isnt and that im misunderstanding.

First of all, my reasoning isn't because of "no evidence" that points that he can do it. Its because of stuff he's done that points he can't do it. As I said before, Guldo was relying on hax to even stand a chance against Gohan and Krillin and when he finally came close to winning, he was going to use a fricking tree trunk to try and end them. If he really could fire off energy attacks he would absolutely not have choosen the former over it in the slightest.
 
@Prof enough with that, if you want to have a discussion on can guldo make or not make a ki blast, make a thread about it. Not trying to be rude but this thread is about the vice shout and it just concluded.
 
@AnonymouXOtakuX

Except that it IS apart of this thread. I used Guldo as an example to show stronger characters do not necessarily gain techniques that others have. So yes this is on-topic.
 
Does Guldo have a voice?

If so, which he does, obviously, he could replicate the technique if he was strong enough.

Ki blast = \ = voice.
 
guldo as an example at the beginning yess, but as the argument continued it derailed from the original meaning and purpose. And likke i said, the thread is over
 
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