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Magi massive Revision

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all of this countless/infinite shit is cringe since infinite (mugen) literally translates to without limit/limitless/boundless in japanese but most of the times it's translated as infinite
so the being stated to be countless doesn't matter as the word infinite in japanese literally means without end something that has already been stated in magi iirc
 
Tatsumi504 said:
This scan has Sinbad saying the hierarchy is countless then later on he says "If there's a god I will surpass him and ascend even higher and continue to surpass the gods above him forever". He explicitly uses "if", as long as there's a god above him he'll continue to ascend the countless layers and from his perspective this will go on forever
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What. From what perspective. I don't really understand this perspective stuff. Yes he said if there is a god above, I will surpass him and the one above him as there is always a god above controlling the faith of the lower. So yeah I don't get this perspective stuff
Tatsumi504 said:
This is a statement from Aladdin who can't even perceive the hierarchy and once again is from a perspective of how he views "countless
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WTF, then we should disregard what ever came from Alibaba and Sinbad since they are just working on Ugo theory. The Hierarchy doesn't even exist. Anyways this perspective stuff is funny. This is like trying to downgrade umineko because bernkastel wrote her memoir from her perspective.
Tatsumi504 said:
who can't even perceive the hierarchy
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Hey, you know how many character can perceive the Hierarchy in the conversation. None
Tatsumi504 said:
pretty sure this is the official translation and it doesn't refer to the hierarchy but their battle which is possibly from their perspective of countless
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Again, this perspective stuff. Seriously I could downgrade every verse on the wiki with your perspective idea. No that isn't the official translation. You see the end of faith and you say it doesn't refer to the Hierarchy. The entire Hierarchy has the Faith problem and the higher controls the lower but to the higher there someone even higher controlling faith.
Tatsumi504 said:
Even if they both reach the top with one of them being 1st and the other at 2nd, logically they can just keep switching the hierarchy between themselves, hence the battle keeps going on forever... 'Head canon' i know it is but it still logical
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The way swapping of the Hierarchy works has changed on this thread. Again, there is no top. No god truly controls all
 
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Tatsumi504 said:
He's asking for specific scans that say the hierarchy is infinite not based on something that isn't specified like how something that's countless can be observed as infinite.
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What, I see degree of infinity, which indicates well, degrees of infinity. "Observed". Bruh no one in the series can observe the Hierarchy
 
chumiminjo said:
Whats the difference between the CRT u created in all fiction battle and vsbattle ? Cause in all fiction they are High 1-A for some reason
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Let's not derail, but in all fiction I assumed that the difference between layers was more than 1 Dimensional transdence and also assumed that Ugo cycle of being able to create create a god is like a continuous thing
 
Lormac_CC said:
What. From what perspective. I don't really understand this perspective stuff. Yes he said if there is a god above, I will surpass him and the one above him as there is always a god above controlling the faith of the lower. So yeah I don't get this perspective stuff
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By perspective I'm talking about how countless can also be seen as infinite as countless can't have a numerical value attached to it, basically a finite infinity.
 
Tatsumi504 said:
By perspective I'm talking about how countless can also be seen as infinite as countless can't have a numerical value attached to it, basically a finite infinity.
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WTF is finite infinity. The contradiction. Well it is described as having no end so this perspective thing and trying to twist what is explained is pretty funny
Tatsumi504 said:
The fact they can tell someone is above them controlling fate basically proves they can observe the hierarchy
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Ugo just proposed. The reason they know someone controls fate is because illah revealed the truth about faith to them. Ugo proposed that there is a Hierachy built similarly to the way illah had controlled faith. The story expand from their. Infact, Perceiving the Hierarchy agurment is funny. I don't know why I had responded to the agurment in the first place. It like a shallow world character from Maou Gakuin saying that they are 99+ layers and you saying it isn't true because the character can't percive them. For God sake the author is pass info on the cosmology
 
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Lormac_CC said:
This
Base on this thread, the Scaling

Ugo/Sinbad Low 1-C(6D). 1-C(8D) with the power of the Sacred palace

Solomon 1-C(7D)

illah 1-C(8D), Low 1-C(5D). Was casted down the Hierarchy.

David illah 1-C(8D), varies up to 1-B with the Sacred palace.

Difference between layers = 1 Dimensional transdence
Click to expand...
Can you provide easy to understand explanations for the reasons for all of these ratings please? Also, why is Solomon less powerful than the Sacred Palace, and why is David so much stronger than Sinbad?
 
Lormac_CC said:
It like a shallow world character from Maou Gakuin saying that they are 99+ layers and you saying it isn't true because the character can't percive them. For God sake the author is pass info on the
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False equivalence, no, all shallow layers can still perceive deeper layers except layer 0
 
Tatsumi504 said:
False equivalence, no, all shallow layers can still perceive deeper layers except layer 0
Click to expand...
This isn't about false equivalent. It is about the Author passing info about the Hierarchy. 80% of what we know about the Hierarchy came from those 3 chapters. Because you want disagree doesn't mean the Author isn't passing info. Anyway let's drop this as you don't really have solid agurment.
 
Lormac_CC said:
This isn't about false equivalent. It is about the Author passing info about the Hierarchy. 80% of what we know about the Hierarchy came from those 3 chapters. Because you want disagree doesn't mean the Author isn't passing info. Anyway let's drop this as you don't really have solid agurment.
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Hmm, yeah I don't have solid evidence against infinite hierarchy but is there really a WoG saying its infinite? First time I'm hearing it.
 
Antvasima said:
Can you provide easy to understand explanations for the reasons for all of these ratings please? Also, why is Solomon less powerful than the Sacred Palace, and why is David so much stronger than Sinbad?
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Yes, I will try
Based on this thread, Magi works on a Creator creation relationship. A space-time = 4D. After illah was casted down the Hierarchy, he created a space-time and transcended it. That should make weakened illah 5D. Ugo was far superior to illah and even drop him in a aquarium. That makes Ugo 6D. Sinbad is comparable to Ugo. Solomon has a Creator creation relationship with Ugo. That makes him 7D. illah is the creator of Alma torran. Every single even that happened from the time of Alma torran till when he was casted down the Hierarchy was controlled by him. From Solomon going against him to Solomon becoming a god, illah controlled it all, every single event. That would Solidify illah as 8D. The power of the Sacred palace scale to illah. The sacred palace was built using illah powers to help Ugo control the power he had stolen from illah. Hence why the Sacred palace is superior to Solomon. God David is basically illah with David personality and should be comparable to illah 8D. David illah also varies up to 1-B because he is a God on the Hierarchy and change his position. Gods like Sinbad and Ugo aren't capable of such, they can only reduce the rank of gods like illah
 
Lormac_CC said:
Gods like Sinbad and Ugo aren't capable of such, they can only reduce the rank of gods like illah
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Sinbad and Ugo could have used the power of their Sacred palace to higher gods, but they had to need a lot of Rukh so they had to sacrifice a universe that Solomon created. He also had to break the boundaries between hierarchies to replace his position, this also applies to David.
 
Star_King_Veldanava said:
Sinbad and Ugo could have used the power of their Sacred palace to higher gods, but they had to need a lot of Rukh so they had to sacrifice a universe that Solomon created. He also had to break the boundaries between hierarchies to replace his position, this also applies to David.
Click to expand...
Yes they can use the sacred palace to break boundaries and cast gods down but they are incapable of changing their position on the Hierarchy. According to Ugo, illah is the only one capable of changing his position, infact illah is the only God on the Hierarchy in his layer
 
Lormac_CC said:
Yes, I will try
Based on this thread, Magi works on a Creator creation relationship. A space-time = 4D. After illah was casted down the Hierarchy, he created a space-time and transcended it. That should make weakened illah 5D. Ugo was far superior to illah and even drop him in a aquarium. That makes Ugo 6D. Sinbad is comparable to Ugo. Solomon has a Creator creation relationship with Ugo. That makes him 7D. illah is the creator of Alma torran. Every single even that happened from the time of Alma torran till when he was casted down the Hierarchy was controlled by him. From Solomon going against him to Solomon becoming a god, illah controlled it all, every single event. That would Solidify illah as 8D. The power of the Sacred palace scale to illah. The sacred palace was built using illah powers to help Ugo control the power he had stolen from illah. Hence why the Sacred palace is superior to Solomon. God David is basically illah with David personality and should be comparable to illah 8D. David illah also varies up to 1-B because he is a God on the Hierarchy and change his position. Gods like Sinbad and Ugo aren't capable of such, they can only reduce the rank of gods like illah
Click to expand...
That seems like quite convoluted reasoning.

@First_Witch @Elizhaa @KingPin0422 @QuasiYuri @Qawsedf234 @Pain_to12 @RatherClueless @Agnaa

Would any of you be willing to help evaluate this please?
 
Thank you for helping out. It is appreciated.
 
Lormac_CC said:
Yes, I will try
Based on this thread, Magi works on a Creator creation relationship. A space-time = 4D. After illah was casted down the Hierarchy, he created a space-time and transcended it. That should make weakened illah 5D. Ugo was far superior to illah and even drop him in a aquarium. That makes Ugo 6D. Sinbad is comparable to Ugo. Solomon has a Creator creation relationship with Ugo. That makes him 7D. illah is the creator of Alma torran. Every single even that happened from the time of Alma torran till when he was casted down the Hierarchy was controlled by him. From Solomon going against him to Solomon becoming a god, illah controlled it all, every single event. That would Solidify illah as 8D. The power of the Sacred palace scale to illah. The sacred palace was built using illah powers to help Ugo control the power he had stolen from illah. Hence why the Sacred palace is superior to Solomon. God David is basically illah with David personality and should be comparable to illah 8D. David illah also varies up to 1-B because he is a God on the Hierarchy and change his position. Gods like Sinbad and Ugo aren't capable of such, they can only reduce the rank of gods like illah
Click to expand...
Looks fine, Although not entirely sure about giving David a rating since the SP was destroyed in their fight and he never really used it
 
I still do not think that David ever reached as high as 1-B in the hierarchy. Wouldn't it be better to give him "Potentially 1-B" together with Sinbad and Ugo, in case they had continually risen higher and higher? All of this seems too speculative and messy for my tastes.
 
Antvasima said:
I still do not think that David ever reached as high as 1-B in the hierarchy. Wouldn't it be better to give him "Potentially 1-B" together with Sinbad and Ugo, in case they had continually risen higher and higher? All of this seems too speculative and messy for my tastes.
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I am ok with possibly 1-B David if it is combat applicable. For Sinbad and Ugo,
I disagree as both of them can't really change their own position on the Hierarchy. Only David illah can do that
 
Lormac_CC said:
I am ok with possibly 1-B David if it is combat applicable. For Sinbad and Ugo,
I disagree as both of them can't really change their own position on the Hierarchy. Only David illah can do that
Click to expand...
I do not understand. Didn't they all have the same powers of ascension empowered by the Sacred Palacy?

Please provide a sufficiently elaborate but easily understood and well-structured explanation.
 
RatherClueless said:
@Antvasima Sorry for not having replied yet. Kinda busy and a different thread has taken up most of my "wiki time". I'll reply to this and the other thread you pinged me in as soon as I can.
Click to expand...
No problem. Thank you for helping out.
 
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