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Made in Heaven slight downgrade

If you reset a program A by setting up to make a new program B and influence here and there how things will go in it to make it like program A but it all functions on its own without you then you are responable for the reset, but you didn't create the full new program. Time and space expand on their own, that wasn't MiH's doing, what MiH did was the thing that doesn't make sense, the new universe at the end of the last one, hence it's the same tier as the Big Bang.

Example aside, a reset of the universe isn't always Low 2-C, it can be many things like Time Manip making it go to the start and leaving it there or Reality Warping to unquantifiably change many things in the present, and likewise a reset can refer to many things, not just "the end of something, how something else may appear, and how that happens", or "the regression of something, how it may start again and how it keeps moving forward", but just the first 2 things of those. Ex. if you reset a video you may put it from the time you are watching it to start, and that's the reset, the video will then advance on its on as you watch it and that's not part of the reset. MiH made the universe come to an end and started a new one, but time happened on its own.
Oh yeah the comparasition of pograms are super stupid you were the responsable of reseting the program but is not your ability while MIH was responsable of reseting and creating them also that is just a soft reset and of course you cant reset and create the program because that is impossible
 
1. does MIH resets the time line or just the universe
2. is affecting time and space to that degree Low 2-C
3.ඞ
It effects the timeline yeah.
The jap scans specify it births a new history like 7 times, and even goes as far to say it's effectively a different dimension.

hence it's the same tier as the Big Bang.

Ok but that's literally wrong, not once ever in any media relating to MIH does it ever once specify Big Bang. That's actual conjecture.
 
MIH was responsable of reseting and creating them also that is just a soft reset and of course you cant reset and create the program because that is impossible
The only thing mih is responsible for is speeding time to infinity everything else is just an byproduct of that speed up so like I said previously either don't give a rating to universe reset or let it remain the same
 
The only thing mih is responsible for is speeding time to infinity everything else is just an byproduct of that speed up so like I said previously either don't give a rating to universe reset or let it remain the same
That's not exactly true, MIH doesn't even manipulate time, it has universal gravity manip that can effect time.
 
The only thing mih is responsible for is speeding time to infinity everything else is just an byproduct of that speed up so like I said previously either don't give a rating to universe reset or let it remain the same
Refering that MIH did it with hax while the human didnt have the ability and was the computer thing

yeah he still have his tier because it was his ability fault who falls in environment destruccion
 
Actually why in the bloody **** is there talk of it being causality manip? It is stated like two dozen times to be rooted in fate. There is no causality involved, it may function similarly, but when the source material (especially the raws) and even the guide is like "yeah it's all because of fate", well no, it's because of fate. It's not that far off as how BTD works, or even King Crimson (who should probably have minor fate manip as is).

And that gravity manipulation is used to speed up time

As a direct result of the universal scale gravity manip. You see the issue right? You're oversimplifying it to an excessive degree. Do I need to point out the singularity point at that? Because that's not quite natural as you think it is.
 
bending Space-Time on Universal Range is Low 2-C, since it's considerable significantly affecting, especically "warping". also ye i know tiering aswell, since months, and just because recently im inactive dosen't mean that i forgot everything
"Bending Space-Time on Universal Range" is Low 2-C if proven to be equal to a power that would destroy a timeline, otherwise it's not, the latter logically being the standard. This is you saying random exposition btw, I quoted someone who claimed that bending "the space-time" was Low 2-C, corrected it, and now you quoted me to say what yu think is Low 2-C.
If it gets accepted we can say goodbye to the Downgrade, unless we want agrue that MiH universe destruction is only hax which is a no.
Whatever then, I didn't get that idea from reading it but didn't finish doing so.
Let me take scans.

Here the Explanation from Jorge in the novel, also MiHur in the novel works on cube house, which is a universe sized space-time. and the end of universe influence it aswell
To avoid more random things better not to get into, is that even canon?
pretty sure when he refers to a "new history" is because humanity is going to be diferent because the people he killed are different than their original countrapart
Once again, does this matter? As in, is anyone claiming that the "new history" bit matters for something here? I could write the full reasons behind what that refers to but as it doesn't matter then why bother.
Can someone please give me a quick rundown of what's being discussed, some extremely important shit came up last night (and today but I can put a few minutes aside) so i didn't really much time in.

Though I did translate the a few jap scans.
Never trust rundowns about me, even if they seen accurate. I'll wait you, I won't apply this until Pucci may reset the universe in the anime if needed to.
1. does MIH resets the time line or just the universe
2. is affecting time and space to that degree Low 2-C
3.ඞ
I find this to be his own question unrelated to this thread, case in point.
Affecting Space-Time on a Universe scale is Low 2-C.

Low 2-C | Universe level+: Characters who are capable of significantly affecting[1], creating and/or destroying an area of space that is qualitatively larger than an infinitely-sized 3-dimensional space. Common fictional examples of spaces representing such sizes are space-time continuums of a universal scale.
See that blue "[1]"? You need to see what it links to and read that as well, there you go. I even have an unfinished thread going over how the Tiering should be even more clear into what that description means but had issues due to people thinking that it was clear enough. I still believe they didn't factor in the same things I did that cause completely unnecessary confusions like this.
Oh yeah the comparasition of pograms are super stupid you were the responsable of reseting the program but is not your ability while MIH was responsable of reseting and creating them also that is just a soft reset and of course you cant reset and create the program because that is impossible
It isn't "super stupid", I find that you didn't get the example, one can reset a program if they are a producer or with Reality Warping. The point I was making matters more anyway. You said it, MiH was responsable of reseting and creating the universe, the former being Time Manip and the latter a 3-A feat. Also can you use punctuation, commas, be more clear, etc.? I also recommended before that not everyone should necessarily comment.
It effects the timeline yeah.
The jap scans specify it births a new history like 7 times, and even goes as far to say it's effectively a different dimension.
As correct as it is relevant. I never asked those things or put them into question.
Ok but that's literally wrong, not once ever in any media relating to MIH does it ever once specify Big Bang. That's actual conjecture.
I didn't say it specify the Big Bang, I said it should have the same tier. That's like saying that some explosion making as much energy as a certain nuke should have its same tier and replying that the explosion isn't the nuke. MiH speeded up time to infinity, which is time manip, that made the universe end, then a new universe was born, which can be said to be alluded to MiH's ability and is 3-A, then time expanded in that universe because that's what time does, and events alike the old universe happened, which is another power of MiH (I called it Causality Manip, and you said it was still Fate Manip, I guess it doesn't matter to talk about it now). MiH doesn't have a Low 2-C feat in what it does, it doesn't create all the time in the timeline of the new universe from start to finish. The new history (if I need to go over this) is that precog Pucci gave to humans (to put it shortly).
That's not exactly true, MIH doesn't even manipulate time, it has universal gravity manip that can effect time.
As a direct result of the universal scale gravity manip. You see the issue right? You're oversimplifying it to an excessive degree. Do I need to point out the singularity point at that? Because that's not quite natural as you think it is.
I mean, if I can manipulate radiation to manipulate gravity then I have Radiation & Gravity Manip.
 
The need to demostrate to show it is kinda iffy to me it said that if "manipulate space-time" never about demostrating that feat of power and what you say contradict the page says that manipulating space and time is Low 2-C but you say that it needs to show it
 
It isn't "super stupid", I find that you didn't get the example, one can reset a program if they are a producer or with Reality Warping. The point I was making matters more anyway. You said it, MiH was responsable of reseting and creating the universe, the former being Time Manip and the latter a 3-A feat. Also can you use punctuation, commas, be more clear, etc.? I also recommended before that not everyone should necessarily comment.
1. i was saying that your example was objective wrong because you compare things that are diferent and even the comparation was wrong as i pointed out.
2. yeah my english grammar sucks sorry about that.
 
"Bending Space-Time on Universal Range" is Low 2-C if proven to be equal to a power that would destroy a timeline, otherwise it's not, the latter logically being the standard. This is you saying random exposition btw, I quoted someone who claimed that bending "the space-time" was Low 2-C, corrected it, and now you quoted me to say what yu think is Low 2-C.
Hm.. a Timeline is a Space-Time on Universal range..
No.. to be more specific, only in Fiction, in IRL it has another meaning
that's like sayng "destroying Earth is 5-B if proven to be equal to a power that destroys the planet."
To avoid more random things better not to get into, is that even canon?
the whole debate was about MiHur which is Made in Heaven Ultimate Requiem which is on JJ Kars profile, not normal MiH
See that blue "[1]"? You need to see what it links to and read that as well, there you go. I even have an unfinished thread going over how the Tiering should be even more clear into what that description means but had issues due to people thinking that it was clear enough. I still believe they didn't factor in the same things I did that cause completely unnecessary confusions like this..
I readed it much times, now i will copy and past here
("Significantly affect" is used as an umbrella term for feats that don't involve direct creation or destruction but are comparable to them in power, such as warping and distorting the entirety of the structure in question, sustaining its existence with one's own, merging the structure with another one, etc.)
Which dosen't actually change since this what affecting usually means in context like that. Probably not MiH case, though, at the end of days it's still Enviromental Destruction.
 
The need to demostrate to show it is kinda iffy to me it said that if "manipulate space-time" never about demostrating that feat of power and what you say contradict the page says that manipulating space and time is Low 2-C but you say that it needs to show it
I have no idea what you say here, since you say that your "english grammar sucks" I recommend that your priority should be to improve that to some degree, otherwise I personally consider selfish to send me and others to decipher comments like this while you don't run on the same disadvantage.
i was saying that your example was objective wrong because you compare things that are diferent and even the comparation was wrong as i pointed out.
An example to something can be diferent, they do compare, you just couldn't find how.
Hm.. a Timeline is a Space-Time on Universal range..
No.. to be more specific, only in Fiction, in IRL it has another meaning
that's like sayng "destroying Earth is 5-B if proven to be equal to a power that destroys the planet."
Make your own CRT if you disagree with the tiering. And just "destroying Earth" may not be blowing it up in a way that reach 5-B but ruining society by destroying many parts of the surface.
the whole debate was about MiHur which is Made in Heaven Ultimate Requiem which is on JJ Kars profile, not normal MiH
I asked if it was canon, others said it wasn't, and now you talk about the matter again w/o bringing up anything to show it's canon while dismissing what I asked and how others said it wasn't canon. It stands to reason I dismiss you as well.
Which dosen't actually change since this what affecting usually means in context like that.
If that was the case there would be no note like it going over not just "affect" but "Significantly affect", there would be no point in we talking over how we wrongly used that as an umbrella term to write less. Again if you disagree with the tiering make your own CRT.
Probably not MiH case, though, at the end of days it's still Enviromental Destruction.
This is just bias, if it isn't MiH's case we cannot give it a pass anyway by making it Enviromental Destruction as if the standards for it were much lower, if it's not Low 2-C it's not Low 2-C.

Is any other staff keeping up with this?
 
This thread was already derailed by showing that CRT, as you already know, and it's immature for you to throw me blame for something that is clearly your own problem that you need to fix, if others understand you "to some level" then it is still appropriate to deal with that and make it so that they undertand you period, that would be being considered.
 
This thread was already derailed by showing that CRT, as you already know, and it's immature for you to throw me blame for something that is clearly your own problem that you need to fix, if others understand you "to some level" then it is still appropriate to deal with that and make it so that they undertand you period, that would be being considered.
okay
1. no? the CTR that i linked is important because is show that you can be Low 2-C if you affect space and time in a universal scale wich MIH does
2. i am working in that because. when i started in the wiki i barelly could speak english or write and most of my responses were in google traductor so yes i am working in that
 
Make your own CRT if you disagree with the tiering. And just "destroying Earth" may not be blowing it up in a way that reach 5-B but ruining society by destroying many parts of the surface.
No.. that's not about of CRT... show me where that's writed or any CRT where that's got approved. also with destroying i mean destroying in litteral sense, not ruining the economy
I asked if it was canon, others said it wasn't, and now you talk about the matter again w/o bringing up anything to show it's canon while dismissing what I asked and how others said it wasn't canon. It stands to reason I dismiss you as well.
you literally answered to it, and i specifically said that i was talking about mihur. i never said that was canon stop putting stuff that i didn't said on my mounth

proof:
Though, MiHur shouldn't be downgraded, since it bends the space-time.
I specified MiHur if you can't read that's not my problem
If that was the case there would be no note like it going over not just "affect" but "Significantly affect", there would be no point in we talking over how we wrongly used that as an umbrella term to write less. Again if you disagree with the tiering make your own CRT.
It's basically the same thing and we could use the same terms for the umbrella term, but i can't care less, there is no difference by saying Significally Affecting or just Affecting, "a casa mia" (at my home) they are the same thing and have same meaning
This is just bias, if it isn't MiH's case we cannot give it a pass anyway by making it Enviromental Destruction as if the standards for it were much lower, if it's not Low 2-C it's not Low 2-C.

Is any other staff keeping up with this?
Pucci was manipulating time ye, but it was causing Enviromental Destruction, so saying that's just hax imply that there is no enviromental destruction and destruction of the universe
 
It didn't get accepted, they just put the wording in 3-A more exactly.
Is any other staff keeping up with this?
Seriously is anyone seeing this? I find it very challenging to remain motivated while replying to most of this comments.
 
It didn't get accepted, they just put the wording in 3-A more exactly.
Yes it got accepted which is why they reworded the 3-A definition anyway whatever it got accepted or not I still disagree with the downgrade MIH was stated to have the ability to reset the universe which refers to the entire space-time contenum as a whole unless shown otherwise
 
Free for you to falsely categorize me that way and equalize most comments in every "mass disagree" to the comments here.
 
i mean not gonna lie, i believe they are using the theory where the big crunch repeats itself again and again along with the big bang, essentially making the universe a pulsating space which ends and begins continuously and Pucci just kinda accelerated that process.
 
I don't find anymore any good reason for MiH downgrade, Universal creation is Low 2-C because it's pretty much stated the universe as whole thing, and also history which sounds more like recreation of history instead of rewriting history so I disagree with causality manipulation. Also doesn't matter if its time manipulation it influence the gravity of universe and all his effects, which have a lot of effects and it cause environmental destruction on the entire universe, so already by this the universe destruction should be 3-A but we know it accelerate time infinitely till at the whole reset which sounds more Low 2-C. By the way I'm against the "destruction is only hax", it would make a lot of confusion and profile would be outdated, like I won't explain in versus match that the universe would reset explaining stuff also if I tell that they would answer me with "make a CRT!", So personally I disagree with everything but mostly with "it's hax not environment destruction"
 
aight so, the main argument is that pucci caused the birth of the timeline from one statement, kinda sus.
Also, scans for gravity manip?
 
aight so, the main argument is that pucci caused the birth of the timeline from one statement, kinda sus.
Also, scans for gravity manip?
MIH work by manipulating gravity on a Universal scale which allows him to accelerate time infinitely until the universe get reset
 
Also, scans for gravity manip?
I'm on mobile so I don't know how to do it, but if you go on Pucci profile, and go in gallery you can find MiH stand stats and there would be the explanation for gravity. Or just read the last arc of stone ocean since there is also there
 
also manipulating time and space in a universal scale is Low 2-C and that was agreeded with the new revamp of universal
 
So if I am getting this right, the character just sped up time and...? Universe creation from scratch is treated as Low 2-C by default, but in this case if I am getting it correct, time was sped up which led to the eventual destruction and again, creation? Or did he himself destroyed it and created another big bang?
 
So if I am getting this right, the character just sped up time and...? Universe creation from scratch is treated as Low 2-C by default, but in this case if I am getting it correct, time was sped up which led to the eventual destruction and again, creation? Or did he himself destroyed it and created another big bang?
Yeah basically Pucci speed up time to infinity which caused the universe reset and creation of new universe to occur and also something I should mention when Pucci died the universe reset happened again which resulted in the creation of an universe where he never existed
 
So if I am getting this right, the character just sped up time and...? Universe creation from scratch is treated as Low 2-C by default, but in this case if I am getting it correct, time was sped up which led to the eventual destruction and again, creation? Or did he himself destroyed it and created another big bang?
Pucci with Made in Heaven manipulate Gravity (which is the soucre where anything came from, probably the entire multiverse came from it since it's also in SBR universe). By manipulating Gravity Made in Heaven incress the speed of time due to weak gravitational force. the time at some point will accelerate to infinite and reaching the singularity point, by that the universe would come at his end and would be resetted. The Acceleration dosen't influence organic stuff, but cause Environmental Destruction, from low scale such an ice cream that immediately melts, to greater scale like Houses getting destroyed, temperature changing, stuff with the Sun, geography of earth changing and the destruction of universe. After that a new universe would be created people who died would get replaced by other self and time acceleration would slow down. In this world history is already created and occurred, The Destiny will repeat itself (Epxect for Pucci which is the only expection) his plan was to make everyone being able to face their destiny
 
Gravity in SBR operates differently, such like many things in that alt. universe were done differently while resembling their version in the first universe.

The universe doesn't get destroyed as in all things in it being destroyed, people get messed up by the time acceleration not affecting them but everything around, that's unrelated to this thread.

The universe comes to an end because time got accelerated to infinity, such like a human would become dust due to too much time acceleration, that's not the same as throwing a 9-A attack that turns them to dust.

the character just sped up time and...? Universe creation from scratch is treated as Low 2-C by default, but in this case if I am getting it correct, time was sped up which led to the eventual destruction and again, creation? Or did he himself destroyed it and created another big bang?
Well, it's not clear if MiH created the new universe or if it got created as a natural thing that happens in JoJo when a universe gets too old, but in any case it wouldn't have happened on its own and can be alluded to as MiH's doing as a stat.

Universe creation from scratch is not always treated as Low 2-C by default, it can be 3-A. And in this case, as it's the same as the natural creation of the universe, it should be 3-A. MiH doesn't create time and all the events that will happen.
In this world history is already created and occurred
This is misleading, MiH didn't create the timelime. That's like saying that it planting a seed that will turn into a tree is the same as creating a tree as in snapping fingers and making a tree appear.
This Fate Manip and the Precog MiH grants to humans is unrelated to this thread, it's not even "100% this will happen" Precog.
 
Gravity in SBR operates differently, such like many things in that alt. universe were done differently while resembling their version in the first universe.
There is no bases or evidence for that, just them that uses it in a different way, which also various gravity users in first universe does
The universe doesn't get destroyed as in all things in it being destroyed, people get messed up by the time acceleration not affecting them but everything around, that's unrelated to this thread.

The universe comes to an end because time got accelerated to infinity, such like a human would become dust due to too much time acceleration, that's not the same as throwing a 9-A attack that turns them to dust.
Normally this phenomenon is similar to the Big Crunch, which is Low 2-C. but either way, it should still be environmental destruction since it does cause that as i proved before. and not simply age hax.
Universe creation from scratch is not always treated as Low 2-C by default
It is now
This is misleading, MiH didn't create the timelime.
I remember a scan about history being created, after i will find it
This Fate Manip and the Precog MiH grants to humans is unrelated to this thread, it's not even "100% this will happen" Precog.
I was just explaining the power of mih
 
There is no bases or evidence for that, just them that uses it in a different way, which also various gravity users in first universe does
"Gravity" in the first universe is akin to fate in the way DIO and Pucci see it, in the SBR universe it's never referenced as doing something similar, only how it can do things related to dimensions like travel to any of them, which in turn is fitting as that universe has the mechanic of being the is the "main" universe while other infinite dimensions are similar to it and based on it. Gravity outside of those infinite universes has no reason to be the same as those are kinda connected by gravity, the first universe has no reason to be its own "main" universe with infinite dimensions being based on it and all of them having gravity with the same gimmick.

Characters with Gravity Manip have different powers, hence they're not the same, that's not a point to make.
Normally this phenomenon is similar to the Big Crunch, which is Low 2-C. but either way, it should still be environmental destruction since it does cause that as i proved before. and not simply age hax.
If you want to claim the Big Crunch to be Low 2-C you can make a CRT to make it a page, like our Big Bang page. I'm tired of you talking about how it's environmental destruction as if anything I'm doing here would change that.
That comment points out space and time being created, which by the latter I assume they meant all of time from the start to the end of the universe, and added to that the Tiering System explicitly points out that in 3-A how creating a universe can get you that tier, and even more, such a drastic change in how we do things would be not only pointed out in our tiering, but written in such a clear way that anyone reading will understand it at once without any doubt. Even since that thread was first linked here everything about it was derailment, the claims imcomplete as they force me to complete what they fully meant for them, and reading that thread for research was a huge waste of time, aside from something no one's meant to do as if we agree on something we would have it written on big, important pages.
I remember a scan about history being created, after i will find it
It's honestly an insane talk, history is not all of time, the events that happen in history are no the same as in the old history due to the people's own will and Precog MiH granted to them doing other stuff, not because he created all of time, he was never stated to create all of time. And you shouldn't even claim that "history was created" because you're making an imcomplete claim by doing so, any character doing "something something history" isn't creating all of time, we don't inherently assume so, yet you're trying to imply so by bringing up history but letting others figure out why that's goes as in all of time.
I was just explaining the power of mih
If it doesn't matter for its tier in a thread that goes about its tier don't bring it up, overwhelm by saying a bunch of random info about a character and verse is often used as a tactic to get users to agree on things, either because they don't know any better or are too lost to disagree. You're not even saying why you were explaining that as if it mattered, only that you did so.
 
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