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Madara's Low 6-B with Tengai Shinsei Downgrade

You don't use assumed timeframes to debunk calcs, you use them to support them

" I can do a full breakdown of why I think the whole scene obviously takes longer than four second"

And it wouldn't matter at all, because once again, Speech is a free action. This is the equivalent of me saying "Well that lightning bolt took several pages to travel through a few meters and people were speaking so it was only moving a few meters per second", That's a ridiculous notion to make.

"Characters having MHS+ scaling doesn't mean they live like the Flash or Quicksilver where everything they do, think or say happens at hyperspeed at all times."

Actually it does? Perception and Reactions are always faster than how fast you can move, this is a well known fact my dude.

"Also, since when are fodder Shinobi all MHS+ ?"


Not fodder shinobi but the known characters there, but even fodder can move faster than sound easily.
 
The hell? if I see a giant rock falling from the sky then I'm gonna say "it's a meteor!" That like saying u don't know what a meteor is IRL so plz don't say like that cause that's a very bad counterargument.

Again I'm gonna say that in the anime it shows that the 2nd meteor falls from above the clouds which basically shows it's up there in the atmosphere
 
I'm not saying the assumed timeframes disprove it going fast, I'm saying that if the assumed speeds result in a timeframe that is impossible or unrealistic maybe there is a problem with the assumed speeds.

Taking your lightning bolt as an example, if there is uncertainty on how fast a fictional energy blast that acts and looks similar to lightning, but we see if travel slower than a normal car, then that indicates that the blast is actually slow rather than assuming the car is somehow faster than lightning.
 
This rock is called a "meteor" by the fanbase.

From there it starts badly, the fanbase never calls it meteors without a reason, as already demonstrated the characters themselves recognize it as a meteor.

It's a Rinnegan summoning technique.

It's funny how you try to pass this assumption without any real proof from the manga as a fact.

This pixel scaling is for the two meteors, and looks like this scan.

The pixelscaling is about 1 single meteor, since there was only one on the battlefield at that time.

The meteor isn't using ablation speed on either the manga or anime.

That is something that can be said in several other cases and contexts but their calculations have no problems to be approved.
 
Damage3245 said:
I'm not saying the assumed timeframes disprove it going fast, I'm saying that if the assumed speeds result in a timeframe that is impossible or unrealistic maybe there is a problem with the assumed speeds.
Taking your lightning bolt as an example, if there is uncertainty on how fast a fictional energy blast that acts and looks similar to lightning, but we see if travel slower than a normal car, then that indicates that the blast is actually slow rather than assuming the car is somehow faster than lightning.
Click to expand...
But a car has a set speed, your assumed timeframe doesn't, especially for something as interchangeable as how long it takes fictional characters to speak

Because we can have 50 chapters with speech in a timeframe of 5 minutes and we can have a few pages of speech in 5 minutes, this is why we don't use specific speech times for anything timeframe related at all.
 
Comparing this to other meteor feats and saying "but we allow this" while ignoring any context of those feats is not a good way to lend credence.

Also, talking is a free action sure, but doesn't other stuff beyond just talking also happen? Like the shot of the Shinobis running away?
 
I believe there's a new rule thay says we cannot use free action unless there's no other way to calc the feat, and as you can see there are two ways, but I don't know how to calc the second one using gravitational energy.
 
@Dariel Senju Please read all the comments on a thread before posting. It becomes annoying when everyone comments the same thing, all your points were already stablished before so your comments amounds to nothing.
 
The rule is that we can't use word count as a way of finding a timeframe

Nothing at all stops us from realising that speech is a free action is a common trope across all of fiction.
 
TataHakai said:
The rule is that we can't use word count as a way of finding a timeframe
Nothing at all stops us from realising that speech is a free action is a common trope across all of fiction.
Click to expand...
Isn't that the same thing.
 
Speech being a free action doesn't account for just how much happened.

First page: The meteor is already falling and calculated to be about 14 kilometers above them. Some of the fodder ninjas express disbelief, and Onoki gives a brief speech before flying upwards. Gaara orders the Shinobi to flee and they start running

Second page: Madara and Kabuto have their own conversation about the role of Edo Tensei, and Madara observes Onoki still flying up there. Naruto and a nameless Shinobi have a brief conversation about what Onoki is doing. Onoki then reaches the meteor.

Third page: Onoki attempts to slow down the meteor, with some assistance from Gaara pushing sand up to help him. With some effort, they actually manage to stop it a fair distance above the ground.

This goes a bit beyond 'Talking is a free action'. This isn't just a character saying something, this is multiple different characters reacting to the meteor, talking to each other, running away, etc - all before the meteor has covered a few kilometers.

There is suspension of disbelief as in 'Okay, it's not realistic for this character to have said something in the estimated timeframe, but it's just a sentence so whatever' and then there is completely ignoring all context around a feat.

I think that this, along with the fact that the meteor isn't burning, is enough to question the currently used 3,000 m/s & 4,000 m/s assumed speeds for the meteor.
 
For goodness sake THE 2ND METEOR is shown to be ABOVE clouds in anime so that means the even the 1st one came down from above clouds
 
BlackeJan said:
For goodness sake THE 2ND METEOR is shown to be ABOVE clouds in anime so that means the even the 1st one came down from above clouds
Click to expand...
It wasn't shown coming from above the clouds in the manga, which takes top priority as far as I'm aware.
 
TBlackeJan said:
For goodness sake THE 2ND METEOR is shown to be ABOVE clouds in anime so that means the even the 1st one came down from above clouds
Click to expand...
Let's see.

M = 3084570534114521kg

G = 9.81

H = 6000 m (above cloud)

= 425.543501808 Gigatons High 6-C Large Island level

Using my method of the Trophosphere (12 km) with this calc we get:

M = 3084570534114521kg

G = 9.81

H = 12000 m

= 851.08700362 'High 6-C Large Island level
 
Also, wouldn't the first one of those be 1.8155782e+20 joules which is 43.39 Gigatons?
 
"This goes a bit beyond 'Talking is a free action'. This isn't just a character saying something, this is multiple different characters reacting to the meteor, talking to each other, running away, etc - all before the meteor has covered a few kilometers."

Buddy, you're acting like these are normal human beings and not superhuman magic ninjas

I'm not sure if you're actually being serious with this point but i literally can't see how you don't see how blatantly bad the point is. What you're saying is, Ninja who can move hundreds to thousands of meters per second and think EVEN FASTER than that were able to convey words to each other before a meteor fell

Not only is Speech a free action but your comparison to real life timeframes doesn't make any sense here.
 
> Buddy, you're acting like these are normal human beings and not superhuman magic ninjas

Being 'superhuman magic ninjas' isn't enough of an excuse. We're not given any reason to think that the event takes place over 4 seconds, even if you handwave all of the events that are happening on page apart from the meteors falling.

That is enough to introduce reasonable doubt regarding the assumed speeds for the meteor.
 
Damage3245 said:
> Buddy, you're acting like these are normal human beings and not superhuman magic ninjas
Being 'superhuman magic ninjas' isn't enough of an excuse. We're not given any reason to think that the event takes place over 4 seconds, even if you handwave all of the events that are happening on page apart from the meteors falling.

That is enough to introduce reasonable doubt regarding the assumed speeds for the meteor.
Click to expand...
Except it is from YOUR point

You're literally saying "well these fodder were able to talk and react so it must not've been moving that fast" when those "fodder" have perception speeds many times the speed of sound

You literally have characters who can travel faster than sound saying they can't outrun a meteor falling from kilometers away and that's not "enough of a reason to think the event takes less than 4 seconds?"

Your entire point is ridicilous, i don't even care for the meteors final value but the arguments being made against it are blatantly ignorant of context and situation.
 
I'm inclined to accept a downgrade as long as they calculate a correct time.

Ninjas running and reacting to their manners, is not to say that the meteor is not thousands of m/s in speed.
All ninjas in Naruto scales at leats, to BoS Naruto who had made mach 10~11, meaning literally ninjas that can run and move at 3000+ m/s. And yet, the Ninjas could not escape the meteor in time.

I'm neutral, but I still think using ablation speed is a good choice for this feat!
 
AppleLord said:
TBlackeJan said:
For goodness sake THE 2ND METEOR is shown to be ABOVE clouds in anime so that means the even the 1st one came down from above clouds
Click to expand...
Let's see.
M = 3084570534114521kg

G = 9.81

H = 6000 m (above cloud)

= 425.543501808 Gigatons High 6-C Large Island level

Using my method of the Trophosphere (12 km) with this calc we get:

M = 3084570534114521kg

G = 9.81

H = 12000 m

= 851.08700362 'High 6-C Large Island level
Click to expand...
why dont u use bold on bleach first

u are bleach expert so do that first then add it on naruto
 
When the fodder ninja are reacting and talking and interacting with one another in the same breadth of action, cutting it off as "superhuman reflexes" is not really much. How many times do we actually lean on the excuse of super human reflexes justifying unreasonable timeframes (actual question, I haven't seen it a lot but for all I know it's rather common)?

Not to mention, even if the value was lower, do you realize what a massive area would be affected? Do we forget sometimes how actually absurdly big the AoE of a meteor packing High 6-C energy would be? The Shinobi wouldn't have ran in time, that's true, but why not take into account the massive area they would need to run away from to actually have a surviving chance?
 
AppleLord said:
Paul Frank said:
@apple the scan doesn't really explain why 12km was assumed over 20km
Click to expand...
20 km far away to resemble the rain drops.
Click to expand...
You assumed the Troposphere for both the 19 chibaku tensei feet and for this tengai shinsei feat

What I'm saying is that assuming the troposphere doesn't mean 12km should be used as the troposphere can extend up to 20km so I'm not sure why 12km was picked
 
TataHakai said:
Damage3245 said:
> Buddy, you're acting like these are normal human beings and not superhuman magic ninjas
Being 'superhuman magic ninjas' isn't enough of an excuse. We're not given any reason to think that the event takes place over 4 seconds, even if you handwave all of the events that are happening on page apart from the meteors falling.

That is enough to introduce reasonable doubt regarding the assumed speeds for the meteor.
Click to expand...
Except it is from YOUR point
You're literally saying "well these fodder were able to talk and react so it must not've been moving that fast" when those "fodder" have perception speeds many times the speed of sound

You literally have characters who can travel faster than sound saying they can't outrun a meteor falling from kilometers away and that's not "enough of a reason to think the event takes less than 4 seconds?"

Your entire point is ridicilous, i don't even care for the meteors final value but the arguments being made against it are blatantly ignorant of context and situation.
Click to expand...
you are using calcs to justify the timeframe for this calc. calc stacking in a sense, no? and i'm sure as hell the sound village has some complaints to your argument

supersonic fodder is asinine.
 
Not necessarily asinine. Naruto as a kid by the Zabusa Arc has a feat on that level that is apparently accepted. This was with no Kyuubi chakra as well, so normal chunin should entirely scale.
 
The ninjas present on the battlefield are Jonins, and they are far faster than supersonic speeds
 
No? That's a whole battlion of ninjas. Most of the ninjas of a village aren't jonin, I don't think even in the case of Iwa that has the most. They used every Shinobi they could pull into the war effort, so most of those are chunin.
 
that's exactly what I mean. you are using calc'd speeds to justify using this calc which is faulty. because they are certainly not that fast within the context of the series.
 
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