Madara's Light Fang REVISITED

[Rocker1189]

Acts like Light
So did the Star Wars lasers, and they were only upgraded to lightspeed after several statements were found suggesting such a speed.

Has Light in the name

It also has Storm Release in its name.

And has stated to move at the speed of light?

Under the same enry that states it is impossible to dodge.

1. Star was lasers literally stop at a point or move waaay to slowly to be actual light speed.

2. That was never the point it is a new move in the storm release series and is enhanced with SO6P chakra.

3. I have explained this like 3 times already.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

<divclass="quote">Kepekley23 wrote:
Acts like Light So did the Star Wars lasers, and they were only upgraded to lightspeed after several statements were found suggesting such a speed.

Has Light in the name

It also has Storm Release in its name.

And has stated to move at the speed of light?

Under the same entry that states it is impossible to dodge. </div>


yeah it is impossible to dodge... i see no 100 concrete evidence to support that anyone actually dodged it

 

[Reppuzan]

@Rocker

False equivalency. Blaster bolts in the Legends continuity have multiple relativistic to lightspeed statements and can be used against Sub-Relativistic fighters.

There's no statement saying that SO6P chakra magically changes the properties of a certain elemental release.

Still displays none of the properties of light required to be considered legitimate under our Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats guidelines.

 

[Rocker1189]

@Rocker
Where is it ever said that Sage of Six Paths chakra suddenly changes the signature properties of a reledase?

It actually does because it makes it natural.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kukui
Storm Release techniques still display none of he properties required for a laser to be considered a legitimate lightspeed laser.

Therefore we can't accept it as lightspeed.

With all due respect, this is dodging the rebuttal Rep.

This had absolutely 0 relevance to what I previously said. My reply was to clarify that the "impossible to dodge" stuff does not at all debunk the whole thing being something, or else every verse, which alot, that goes under this obvious NLF hype would need to be downgraded and unreliable as well.

 

[Kepekley23]

The "move being ubdodgeable" stuff is literally the weakest form of a rebuttal you can bring forth in a discussion since its obviously not true regardless of feats or not. Many, and I mean many, verses have the exact same "undodgeable" hype that cant be taken literally clearly or else we would have NLF all over the place for everyone.

You're missing the point. The move is stated to be unavoidable BECAUSE it is lightspeed. Someone dodging it defeats the whole point to begin with.

 

[Rocker1189]

Not only does the data book say it is light speed it calls it a beam of light and underlines both lines then for the impossible bit which is obviously a play on how fast it is.The original databook scan does not underline these words.

Actually it does when there is a little circle in japanese kanji that is to show emphasis. So the original scan does in fact underline them.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Rocker

Prove it.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

You're missing the point. The move is stated to be unavoidable BECAUSE it is lightspeed. Someone dodging it defeats the whole point to begin with.

And that means literally what kep? Absolutely nothing as clarified by myself, Assault, and others above.

You can't take the "impossible to dodge" stuff as literal no matter where it comes from because its obviously not true. It being dodgeable/not dodgeable has nothing to do with the actual move itself.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Scan also debunks its impossible to dodge as it literally includes the picture of naruto dodgin it on the same page

Another proof undodgable was used only as an artistic way to describe its speed

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

cant we just calc it on the assumtion that it moves at the speed of lighting.... considering if it's really super fast for Naruto standards it has to be atleast as fast as Lightning...

see what results we get

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Scan also debunks its impossible to dodge as it literally includes the picture of naruto dodgin it on the same page
Another proof undodgable was used only as an artistic way to describe its speed

This^

If I found something where it said the Kamehameha was undodgeable, yet its clearly dodgeable in verse, would I need to fight to get it's speed downgraded all of a sudden?

No. Because taking that artistic flowerly claim as literal to try and undermine the moves speed is absurd. That is whats happening here.

 

[IMadeThisOn8-1-2017]

Why are people trying to use the anime as proof for anything? If we're using the anime then So6P Naruto couldn't react to Sasuke using Kirin (Kirin is literally lightning) thus the Light Fang is an outlier. Stick to the manga, the actual canon and don't use non-canon material. To add my 2cents, I disagree with Naruto characters even being Sub-Rel. I see the feat as Naruto dodging the swing. The databook mentions the attack is a swinging motion which I see is what Naruto dodged. Since the only two ways to interpret the feat are:

1) Naruto dodged the swing.

2) Naruto dodged the beam being fired.

Since neither side can truly be proved, we should lowball to stay on the safe side. I agree with Matt, Kep and Rep here.

 

[Kepekley23]

And that means literally what kep? Absolutely nothing as clarified by myself, Assault, and others above.

Your clarifications are being repeatedly debunked.

You can't take the "impossible to dodge" stuff as literal no matter where it comes from because its obviously not true.

It is obviously not true, yet they still put it there. Your post only proves my point even further.

And they even use "it has the speed of light" as the reasoning for the beam being impossible to avoid.

It is false.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

You're ignoring the fact that the statement is causative. Because it's lightspeed it's impossible to dodge. If the effect isn't true, then the cause probably isn't either.

Ignoring that, you still have yet to provide any proof that it follows our Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats guidelines.

 

[Rocker1189]

Literally no one is using the anime to prove anything.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Its false cause why

Scans debunk undodgable aswell but nothing contradicts light speed

Impossible is an NLF and was used artisticaly in this case

 

[Reppuzan]

Anyone want to show how Light Fang meets our Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats guidelines?

Anyone?

 

[Rocker1189]

@Kukui
You're ignoring the fact that the statement is causative. Because it's lightspeed it's impossible to dodge. If the effect isn't true, then the cause probably isn't either.

Ignoring that, you still have yet to provide any proof that it follows our Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats guidelines.

And you are ignoring the fact that it saying impossible does not mean anything.

Also it does not have to follow the guideline since it is stated to travek at light speeds.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Rocker

We have craploads of characters who say they're "omnipotent" or that they "move at the speed of light" when feats suggests otherwise.

The guidelines are concrete. You're not dodging this one.

 

[Rocker1189]

Anyone want to show how Light Fang meets our Laser/Light Beam Dodging Feats guidelines?
Anyone?

It was shown once in an instant with nothing we can use to scale it off of. There is no way we can prove it does anything apart from statements.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kep

A) By circular reasoning that was debunked to being, no offense, silly from the start.

B) It's put their to again, hype up its speed. Just like in literally any verse ever. Your arguing something that shouldnt be there but always is there because of hyping purposes that don't ever have an eye batted at them. This is the same.

And they go off of "speed of light" because, as Assault clarified, its a specific, scientific speed.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

@Kep cant we just calc it using Madara's normal speed for Lightfang? see what results we get

as the attack itself cant be slower than Madara

 

[Reppuzan]

@Rocker

Which is precisely why we can't consider it lightspeed when all other Storm Release techniques show the contrary.

 

[Assaltwaffle]

@Kep cant we just calc it using Madara's normal speed for Lightfang? see what results we get

as the attack itself cant be slower than Madara

It won't give anything impressive at all. I don't know why you keep pushing this. There is no reason to calc it as lightning.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Omnipotent is far from speed of light

Feats agree As madara easily hit Minato who is Sub-rel+ reactions and Narutos dodging isnt that far away from that so its consistent

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

anyway this thread is going nowhere and the debate seems to be mostly between staff members, maybe u guys should make it a staff only question and hear what the others think?

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

And Storm Release still does not have the properties of real light.

Feats > Statements.

I have half a mind to close this since this is still a banned topic.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

@Kukui
You're ignoring the fact that the statement is causative. Because it's lightspeed it's impossible to dodge. If the effect isn't true, then the cause probably isn't either.

>Probably

Speculation

And the rest still returns to my first point. Your taking the impossible dodge NLF stuff way too literally and assuming the light speed part is the reason why. That goes for, once again, any ficiton you can think of. It doesnt matter if its light, lightning, sound, or anything on the level. Its nothing but a way to hype the move up and show it off.

 

[Reppuzan]

@Kukui

And does Storm Release in general show the properties of real light?

No. It doesn't.

 

[Wrath_Of_Itachi]

@Repp

I agree this should be closed. We should focus on the minato feat instead.

 

[Kepekley23]

And the rest still returns to my first point. Your taking the impossible dodge NLF stuff way to literally and assuming the light speed part is the reason why

Because it's literally stated to be the reason why in the actual databook statements.

They even said 'not even one swing" of it could be dodged as a means to solidify they actually meant the unavoidable part. Yet Naruto supposedly dodges it anyway.

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Also Rep, stop putting the "storm release" stuff into my mouth please.

That has nothing to do with my argument, as that is what others are arguing against. Im arguing something totally different and bringing it up to me isn't going to get the answers you want.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Its false cause why
Scans debunk undodgable aswell but nothing contradicts light speed

Impossible is an NLF and was used artisticaly in this case

U would also need to give ignores durability for light fang

 

[Rocker1189]

And the rest still returns to my first point. Your taking the impossible dodge NLF stuff way to literally and assuming the light speed part is the reason whyBecause it's literally stated to be the reason why in the actual databook statements.
They even said 'not even one swing" of it could be dodged as a means to solidify they actually meant the unavoidable part. Yet Naruto supposedly dodges it anyway.

You are still ignoring the fact that certain things were highlighted and others were not. Or more specifically speed of light and beam of light were hihglighted. Impossible and one swing were not.

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

this light fang thing is just messy, it's created a toxic environment and has created animosity between members that was never there before.

can we just drop it

 

[Kepekley23]

Also, the "speed of light is a scientific value" argument is just as flawed as the rest. Speed of light is constantly used as a flowery hyperbole too. That's why the statement needs to be consistemt

@Rocker

We already replied to that. You failed to respond to Reppuzan asking for proof.

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

No

as i fail to see a reason why impossible should be taken literally when the databooks contradicts it by showing naruto dodging it in the same page

 

[Dragonmasterxyz]

So I am assuming this has been rejected?

 

[ProfessorKukui4Life]

Because it's literally stated to be the reason why in the actual databook statements.

They even said 'not even one swing" of it could be dodged as a means to solidify they actually meant the unavoidable part. Yet Naruto supposedly dodges it anyway.

Because again Kep, its flowerly language to give it hype.

If I again saw something that said the Kamehameha was undodgeable for the same stuff, I wouldnt fight to get it or Goku downgraded because its absurd. This isn't different.

If anything, the only legitimate thing you can get out of this hype is someone being actually fast enough to dodge the "impossible" beam, which would be Naruto in this case.