Low 2-C Mario: In The Final

[Antvasima]

I was thinking of something like this: "Variable. 9-B at his lowest. 4-A normally. Low 2-C at his peak." This would also make scaling with Goombas and similar characters much easier, since Mario is portrayed to vary in tier depending on the severity of the threat.

 

[liluzivert]

Giving low 2-C to the star children would also be good, that way we won’t have uni toad lol

 

[MrKingOfNegativity]

Matt, if we keep this thread, this concept will go nowhere. I know that’s what you want, but this thread is just a culmination of insults and idiocy.

You say that like every subsequent thread wouldn't be destined to devolve into that too if these attitudes were to keep up.

On the other hand, one thread means one place that can be referenced in the future if these revisions are called into question again. Several threads means there will be several places that will need referencing, on top of the subsequent time issues mentioned before. A singular thread is what makes sense. People just need to make an effort not to turn that singular thread into a toxic mess.

 

[Antvasima]

I was thinking of something like this: "Variable. 9-B at his lowest. 4-A normally. Low 2-C at his peak." This would also make scaling with Goombas and similar characters much easier, since Mario is portrayed to vary in tier depending on the severity of the threat.

@AKM sama @Dino_Ranger_Black @Ryukama @GyroNutz @Eficiente @WeeklyBattles @The_real_cal_howard

What do you think of this solution?

Edit: Tier 7 or 6 may be better as a lowest boundary.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Going from what DDM said; base Mario characters do have low 2-C feats however due to the "messy" nature of the Marioverse on top off the constant changes in power-levels between games and most of the staff disagreeing or being neutral towards the upgrade, a straight low 2-C base Mario isn't happening.

However a varies tier is still on the table?

Sorry in advance if I misunderstood DDMs points.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Low 2-C seems off the table due to staff majority, and I’m not sure if giving Mario a 9-B key is appropriate.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Making Mario "Tier 9 at his absolute lowest and 2-B at his absolute peak" seems way off. I'm okay with proposing some type of variable tier; but at that extent is like Thor ranging from "9-C at his lowest, Low 1-A at his peak" or something like that. If we're going to go that extreme, Mario's Tier 7 to 6 feats are like so extremely casual. Though he does admittedly have several Island level feats albiet casual. Heck, there are plans to upgrade fodder Goombas to at least building level and Bob-ombs to Town level via exploding.

I kinda miss the variable ranging from High 4-C to 4-A or something like that however. And even Matt openly kinda admits anything less than Tier 7 to 6 is downplay. But I recall him thinking Tier 6 is what he wants to see. I know Matt also disagrees with Tier 4, which I strongly disagree but not going to hold it against him.

 

[liluzivert]

Making Mario "Tier 9 at his absolute lowest and 2-B at his absolute peak" seems way off. I'm okay with proposing some type of variable tier; but at that extent is like Thor ranging from "9-C at his lowest, Low 1-A at his peak" or something like that. If we're going to go that extreme, Mario's Tier 7 to 6 feats are like so extremely casual. Though he does admittedly have several Island level feats albiet casual. Heck, there are plans to upgrade fodder Goombas to at least building level and Bob-ombs to Town level via exploding.

I kinda miss the variable ranging from High 4-C to 4-A or something like that however. And even Matt openly kinda admits anything less than Tier 7 to 6 is downplay. But I recall him thinking Tier 6 is what he wants to see. I know Matt also disagrees with Tier 4, which I strongly disagree but not going to hold it against him.

so only 4-A possibly low 2-C can work? Maybe just for the star children too?

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

4-A, possibly Low 2-C for Star Children
4-A or whatever tier DDM plans to re-tier the mid tiers to for everyone else

That's if possibly Low 2-C is accepted.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Making Mario "Tier 9 at his absolute lowest and 2-B at his absolute peak" seems way off. I'm okay with proposing some type of variable tier; but at that extent is like Thor ranging from "9-C at his lowest, Low 1-A at his peak" or something like that. If we're going to go that extreme, Mario's Tier 7 to 6 feats are like so extremely casual. Though he does admittedly have several Island level feats albiet casual. Heck, there are plans to upgrade fodder Goombas to at least building level and Bob-ombs to Town level via exploding.

I kinda miss the variable ranging from High 4-C to 4-A or something like that however. And even Matt openly kinda admits anything less than Tier 7 to 6 is downplay. But I recall him thinking Tier 6 is what he wants to see. I know Matt also disagrees with Tier 4, which I strongly disagree but not going to hold it against him.

yeah a Variable Tier starting at 9-B is silly for me.

I disagree with 4-A Mario but it's preferrable to freaking Low 2-C.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I want to give others time; but I definitely support Tier 2. But I'm too outvoted to have Tier 2 unfortunately. At the absolute lowest should be no lower than Country level scaling from Donkey Kong's Moon bouncing feat. But I overall thing High 4-C to 4-A is consistent.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Tier 4 is consistent enough. At absolute worst he’d be Tier 7.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Yeah I don't support Tier 9 Mario. At worse he'd be Tier 7 / 6 scaling from very direct feats.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Anyone contacted Blaze yet?

As the OP I feel like he should be given some time to give his input about the variable tier for the Mario cast since it's a pretty big change from the original objective of this CRT.

 

[Hunterzillas]

4-A, possibly Low 2-C for Star Children
4-A or whatever tier DDM plans to re-tier the mid tiers to for everyone else

That's if possibly Low 2-C is accepted.

I am in full support of this.

yeah a Variable Tier starting at 9-B is silly for me.

I disagree with 4-A Mario but it's preferrable to freaking Low 2-C.

But I think it'd be hilarious if after all of this, we ended up downgrading Mario.

 

[StrymULTRA]

I agree as well with "4-A, possibly Low 2-C" as well, since there IS evicende, but is iffy due to also consistency issues.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

Ok I'm getting some contradicting responses from this CRT.

Is tier 2 base Mario going to happen (in ANY capacity), yes or no?

 

[Ari64-SP]

I agree as well with "4-A, possibly Low 2-C" as well, since there IS evicende, but is iffy due to also consistency issues.

I also agree with this

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Is tier 2 base Mario going to happen (in ANY capacity), yes or no?

Based on the majority of staff disagreeing no, but Dino Ranger Black might change his mind.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

Is tier 2 base Mario going to happen (in ANY capacity), yes or no?

As far as I'm concerned, no.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

Ok I'm getting some contradicting responses from this CRT.

Is tier 2 base Mario going to happen (in ANY capacity), yes or no?

That's basically what's being argued on in this thread.

 

[DatOneWeeb]

Anyone contacted Blaze yet?

As the OP I feel like he should be given some time to give his input about the variable tier for the Mario cast since it's a pretty big change from the original objective of this CRT.

Well I already said in the op I am fine with a possibly. Am I fine with a Varies from 4-A to Low 2-C? Yes. Do I agree with making his lowest anything but tier 4? No. Things like 9-B come from game mechanics despite Mario in-canon being way above fodder. Tier 4 is also more consistent than tier 7. I've seen the list of tier 7 feats, some of them aren't even tier 7.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

If it's "no" then why am I still seeing possibly low 2-C or varies up to low 2-C get thrown around or agreed on?

Honestly I don't mind the upgrades but it seems some folks are ignoring each other's conclusions.

 

[GiverOfThePeace]

If it's "no" then why am I still seeing possibly low 2-C or varies up to low 2-C get thrown around or agreed on?

Honestly I don't mind the upgrades but it seems some folks are ignoring each other's conclusions.

People are saying they agree to the proposal, but I specifically noted the proposal is for if Low 2-C gets accepted.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

People are saying they agree to the proposal, but I specifically noted the proposal is for if Low 2-C gets accepted.

Thanks for clearing that up. So we're just waiting to see if all the staff that initially opposed the tier 2 upgrade:
A) Agree with the variable tier and B) Agree to having low 2-C as the high-end to the variable tier?

And depending on the staff consensus, it will determine the outcome of this CRT?

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

And depending on the staff consensus, it will determine the outcome of this CRT?

That is correct.

 

[liluzivert]

Imo:

-Star Children get 4-A to possibly Low 2-C

-Mid tiers get (lower tier) to 4-A

 

[DatOneWeeb]

A variable tier would actually allow us to scale others like say lesser bosses to 4-A with less issues to scaling.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

I am against scaling lesses bosses to tier of strong guys.

 

[InfiniteDay]

I am against scaling lesses bosses to tier of strong guys.

They shouldn't massively downscale to massive degrees.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

It's not "just because". It's in aknowledgement that Mario can in fact vary in power level from game to game, which anyone who has played the games should know to be true. In fact, the enormous difference in power can be seen when comparing 2d to 3d.

That said,

I agree with this.

"Vary in power between games" is a case for literally any franchise. It would be stupid.

 

[liluzivert]

"Vary in power between games" is a case for literally any franchise. It would be stupid.

it might be the only option for low 2-C, but yeah I prefer the options I listed above, mainly 4-A to low 2-C at least.

 

[Armorchompy]

While I disagree with specifically 9-B, the three-tier system Ant proposed seems like a great choice to me.

Ant, I think you should have asked who agrees with the three-tier solution, not specifically with 9-B as the lowest rating, as that'll get a lot of people to disagree with it while they'd otherwise agree if the lowest rating was left to be determined later (probably in the tier 6/7 range as many have said)

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks for clearing that up. So we're just waiting to see if all the staff that initially opposed the tier 2 upgrade:
A) Agree with the variable tier and B) Agree to having low 2-C as the high-end to the variable tier?

And depending on the staff consensus, it will determine the outcome of this CRT?

I think so, yes, but it seems like the lowest part of the variable tier should be 7 or 6 instead of 9.

 

[Antvasima]

While I disagree with specifically 9-B, the three-tier system Ant proposed seems like a great choice to me.

Ant, I think you should have asked who agrees with the three-tier solution, not specifically with 9-B as the lowest rating, as that'll get a lot of people to disagree with it while they'd otherwise agree if the lowest rating was left to be determined later (probably in the tier 6/7 range as many have said)

I have edited my post about this above.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Off the top of my head Mario has a casual Low 7-B feat and has been unharmed by being shot to the moon (which is in this range), so 9-B wouldn't be a factor.

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

Mario isn't some shonen anime. He's always the same. This makes no sense.

 

[Foxthefox1000]

A varies key in the context of specifically Mario I guess is fine.

It's not that it's a different Mario it's that he's a character Miyamoto designed to be able to play any role he sees fit, and thus, his power level and the scale of the dangers he faces switch out constantly.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

"Vary in power between games" is a case for literally any franchise. It would be stupid.

Not really. Because most games at least follow a linear story. Mario? Not so much.

 

[Matthew_Schroeder]

There are literal game series with linear stories with different keys for different games