Yes, and it is much easier to separate said power levels in this case. Perhaps 4 keys would be enough? The games where he is portrayed at his weakest, the standard/general/currently used power level, the games where he is usually portrayed at his strongest (Low 2-C), and the Paper Mario RPG, which is even higher.
I think it'd be better to separate by series, something like
Bad argument, because that only applies to different canons. You have to prove Mario canonically gets weaker, he's still a top tier in each subseries.
Mario has no showings on that level in most games and tons of, albeit gameplay-related for the most part, anti-feats. No shit he's a top tier, he's the protagonist. The general scaling doesn't fluctuate too much in Marvel either, Spider-Man's almost always stronger than Daredevil, the issue is that sometimes they're both 9-C and sometimes they're both High 8-C.
Without power-ups, you cannot hurt him in any 2D platformer, and he can two/three-shot you if you have them anyway, while you're gonna need dozens of fireballs to bring the true Bowser down. In 64, you need to sneak up behind him to throw him, if you approach him from the front he'll just hurt you (and we don't scale LS to AP anyway). And in Odyssey, you neglected to mention that no, he cannot hurt him. In 3D Land, you cannot hurt him in any way (Unless you have the non-canon super star tanuki suit power-up). In virtually all sports games, he's a power-type character, and therefore more durable and powerful than Mario. In Mario Party (except for Super), he's basically unbeatable and just gets to take stars or coins away from you. In SMRPG, you're unable to hurt him at all and he inflicts way higher damage than Mario when playable. Baby Bowser is still too strong for Yoshi to directly damage, though shockwaves do the trick.
That's because Mario's more skilled, not stronger. (And because Bowser's a bit stupid)
Great logic, you wanna apply that logic to quite literally every verse or is Mario the only exception you want to make? This is an argument I can use on every verse that is long running, Mario is no exception. But the fact that he has feats from serveral subseries (Mainline, M&L, Paper Mario, Wario) makes it useable. Arguments for keys have been ******* beaten to death many times. "Mario is strong because he's the protagonist" keep up with the lore my guy, Star Child and one of the Four Heroes of Light is a better reason.
Another bad argument yet again, power-ups scale to base form since Mario's already been able to tank them, such as fighting Luigi in the Mario vs Luigi mode. Also the Fire Flower nor Hammer Suit are amps, argument nulled. Are you seriously using hit points as a thing to debate durability? Do game mechanics not exist to you? Also dozens of fire balls is an exaggerated number, you should know from playing it hardly requires that many Fire Balls (and the hammer is even better).
Yet Bowser would need comparable LS since he's displayed this. Also "sneak up", Mario isn't Snake, he runs past him. I should also mention those bombs are something Mario can also take without dying.
And you also neglect how the first cutscene literally displayed the two fighting for some time. Bowser is not a stonewall in canon. You'd think that if Mario can block an attack that harms Bowser would also make him scale.
Ah, but you also ignore how Mario can still harm him and isn't far off either. You'd also be ignoring with games that have story modes, such as Tennis Aces where Mario yet again defeats another amped Bowser. It seems to me like you're lacking on some stuff.
So you still continue to prove that you're missing some stuff. Have you ever considered actually taking other stuff into consideration than just the boards? In Mario Party 2, each ending literally has the characters besting Bowser. In the story modes for games like DS, 4, 5, etc, you are fighting Bowser at the end.
No offence but the more I read, the more I doubt you. The first boss of SMRPG is literally Bowser himself, and Mario won. Did you just skip past that? If we're going by stats, Mario's attack power is only 0.8x weaker.
Despite the fact the sequels display otherwise and Baby Mario defeats Baby Bowser in PiT? Dude, come on.
Skill can only take you so far, especially when you'd be ignoring everything the RPGs displayed.
Ok? I don't see how the scaling changes this somehow. The logic behind Mario having different keys is the same as Wario and DK having different keys.
Doesn't change the fact he kills you faster than you kill him- also, SMB1 Bowser is quite sturdy.
I love how you're making all these arguments and dancing around the fact that Mario cannot harm Bowser directly.
Fighting for some time, but Bowser doesn't have a scratch while Mario gets his ass whooped.
At this point I'm starting to realize you are just wanking. HOW did Mario win? Did he win by directly hurting Bowser? Or, maybe, I dunno, I suppose, possibly, he might have defeated Bowser through indirect means? I dunno, perhaps by virtue of, beating up the Chain Chomp holding his chandelier? Crazy stuff, right?
It's almost like part of the point I'm trying to make is that Mario scaling is wonky and should be taken with a pinch of salt?
Yes, things such as Bowser being able to fight enemies it takes both the bros to take down, and usually requiring both of them to defeat.
Are you just gonna reduce yourself to mud-slinging because you're out of arguments, or do you just feel like being an ass?Armor's arguments in a nutshell:
I've mentioned Marvel and DC to explain that having multiple ratings for series with fluctuating power levels are something we do, I do agree that making the example "verse X does this so why can't verse Y?" is usually very flawed- I just think this is an exception, and considering Ant also made the argument, I don't think I'm incorrect in saying that.
Funny how DRB agreed with that but disagrees with Mario having keys.
So five fire balls is "dozens"? Also that's quite literally being ignorant on how Mario can still defeat Bowser in these games.
So no argument on scaling, got it. Moving on then
You mind showing me where Mario has a scratch and "gets his ass whooped" other than a sneak attack that leads to a knock off? Almost like you're making up stuff.
At this I'm genuinely realizing you don't know shit about SMRPG. How did Mario defeat Bowser? By physically punching him. It's on-screen, we play it for ***** sake. How am I supposed to take your argument seriously when you don't even know what happens?
It's almost as if that was completely irrelevant to the argument. Concede about Bowser supposedy being unbeatable in Party or make an actual refute. Don't strawman me.
Armor, seriously, how are you ignoring everything? Bowser vs Fawful and Luigi vs Fawful was a 1v1. King Olly vs Bowser was a 1v1, Mario vs Bowser was a 1v1. This isn't even funny.
Are you actually going to respond to the arguments or continue to strawman everything and continue to act as if you know what is going on.
Beats debating someone who waved all the arguments to say "much portrayal"
I don't know what purpose you wanted to fulfil by showing discord screenshots on a thread where it doesn't belong. It does not matter if a person is biased or not. You attack their arguments, not them. I can dig up several other worse screenshots said on discord by you, Cal, and almost everybody to attack their "real" characters or to prove that they have a bias. But doing that would not be germane. Please do not bring irrelevant discord screenshots in a CRT.
Concession accepted then, we can move on from Bowser scaling.
I wasn't talking about you and your comparassion
That, or separate keys for each type of game. 2d,3D,rpgs,spin-offs
I don't want to be rude AKM since you're a nice guy,but you didn't comment on a mario thread until this time so your agreement or disagreement is kind of irrelevant only if you have a good argument
No because if people have brought up mod votes before then it's fine, but if I do it oh dear I'm committing a crime!
I literally have the boss fight in smrpg up. You can harm bowser using your basic punches
Armor's arguments in a nutshell:
This is not at all the point. It doesn't matter that it is the same character or not, or if Mario is going through transformations or power upset the point is that feats fluctuate so much that different keys are 100% more accurate than a single rating.
We do separate keys based on portrayals for several long running verses actually. We also don't allow for backward scaling from previous installments for long running series nor do we treat the "lore" as one monolith with no contradictions.
Stop being a hypocrite. The moment you came back you try to immediately discredit everyone who disagrees with you by shit flinging at the walls while also painting yourself as a misunderstood victim. You don't have any moral high ground, in fact your argumentation tactics are as disrespectful and manipulative as they get.
That could also work, although I think that "Varies. At least ... , usually 4-A, at most Low 2-C" seems preferable.
You legit claimed that Mario could not harm bowser, when he very clearly can.
Yes. It usually takes too much time to not simply read and evaluate what others said, especially if it would just be repetition.
@Dino_Ranger_Black
