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And to top it off, I can put money that people will latch onto it, claim because he said no the thread is dead, and either parrot it or just ask to close it.And those are the arguments I hate the most.
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And to top it off, I can put money that people will latch onto it, claim because he said no the thread is dead, and either parrot it or just ask to close it.And those are the arguments I hate the most.
No because he doesn't do it.Does Mario busting Solar Systems every time he fights sound reasonable and in character?
He doesn't do it.Does Sonic bust universes left and right or planets for that matter?
He doesn't do it.Does Link slice the fabric of the universe each time he fights enemies?
This is really disrespectful Cal. The thread had gone back to a peaceful state but the moment Dino returns and expresses his disagreements once again you and other people start to poison the well once more.Once again DRB’s argument boils down to just arguing from incredulity. There’s not a single proper debunk in there.
Why him explaining the arguments being 'maybe' wrong is disrespectful?This is really disrespectful Cal. The thread had gone back to a peaceful state but the moment Dino returns and expresses his disagreements once again you and other people start to poison the well once more.
Not this, but immediately as soon as Dino threw his disagreement again in response to DDM, Cal complains that Dino has no arguments and that he is only speaking from feelings, and then regular users feel the incentive to join in on it.Why him explaining the arguments being 'maybe' wrong is disrespectful?
My main issue is with nonsensical backwards scaling. If someone does something in an amped state, it doesn't make any sense to scale back to base because Mario fights both. Even disregarding whether or not the Grand Star amp is quantifiably Low 2-C, which I don't think it is. Base Bowser is physically stronger than Mario, either the Amp is minimal or it's an outlier to scale it back to Mario.Also, I want to point out GyroNuts raised some strong points. Bowser is literally eating the Grand Star to grow giant. He's got a Universe nuking artifact in his chest that's amping his power levels skyrocketing. And he's absolutely utilizing its full powers into his physical strength and Bowser even acknowledges that he should have used it that way the first time. However, I think it's loophole for Bowser to be Universal without a Grand Star and thus would be contradictory to base Mario's stats in the process.
The discusion isn't just heat, I wasn't talking about heat when I brought up the reactor, i brought it up as an obvious example of how Bowser cannot scale to the Grand Star feat himself as a tiny fragment of the reactor's energy (which, when fully collapse causes the Low 2-C feat in the first place) hurts him.The Heat feats are still work in progress, but here's the detail. Most of the time, withstanding extreme heat is no where near as impressive as surviving blunt force trauma. 200 Kilojoules of thermal energy is barely enough thermal energy to cause a summer cold. But 200 Kilojoules of blunt force trauma is equivalent to getting run over by a speeding car that shatters every bone in your body. But, even calculating and assuming the lava has the same density as normal lava and dividing it by surface area. Thermal Equilibrium would make it 3-B levels of heat. it wouldn't scale to taking hits from 3-B punches normally fra about though.
Ayee Fox you made itDoes Mario busting Solar Systems every time he fights sound reasonable and in character?
Does Sonic bust universes left and right or planets for that matter?
Does Link slice the fabric of the universe each time he fights enemies?
Using those trains of thought we'd have to downgrade half of the profiles we have simply because "they sound ridiculous"
That's all I'll say.
By that very same logic, Frieza, Imperfect/Semi-perfect Cell, and Buu should be Planet level since we've seen no feats of them destroying stars or solar systems.No because he doesn't do it.
He doesn't do it.
He doesn't do it.
Your comment only highlights the ridiculousness and inherent suspiciousness of all those other ratings also.
This is a blatant lie because they all have very direct feats and statements of planet level destruction.By that very same logic, Frieza, Imperfect/Semi-perfect Cell, and Buu should be Planet level since we've seen no feats of them destroying stars or solar systems.
Pretty much this. If you have a problem with other verses that do the same thing, make a separate thread for that.People shouldn't bring other series period. This is for Mario and how should we interpret its feats the most logical and consistent way. It doesn't matter what other series does and doesn't do, because they may have different context to Mario.
And that's in general.
He was talking about them having no star-SS feats, not planet.You don't need any scaling to prove that Frieza, Perfect Cell, and Buu are Planet level.
Thank you for mentioning this, DRB, I have been talking about this for the whole thread. How you cannot simultaneously scale Mario to Base Bowser and Amped Bowser when Base Bowser is consistently physically stronger than Mario in the first place, it creates recursive scaling where Base Bowser will be stronger than Amped Bowser.Bowser, a character they been constantly fighting amped AND unamped. Bowser's already treated as one of the recurring cast strongest and most resilient in BASE. So powerscaling Mario to his amped forms will mean powerscaling Bowser right back to him, despite the fact he was empowered in the very first place and wee will be back to square one. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
...what?For the record, I'm not being ignorant nor am I arguing from incredulity. So many people, even DDM, have pointed out the several issues, that I decided to focus on the issue with this thread from a rational point of view in why we can't accept this. In addition, many of the people supporting this have overlooked the primary and crucial reason why Mario nor co. have been scale to this tier for years, no matter how frequent or legitimate they are................................................................................................multiple of them are from Bowser, a character they've been constantly fighting amped AND unamped, making this super difficult to qualify. Bowser's already treated as one of the recurring cast strongest and most resilient in BASE. So powerscaling Mario to his amped forms will mean powerscaling Bowser right back to him, despite the fact he was empowered in the very first place and we will be back to square one. And this is just the tip of the iceberg.
I called a spade a spade. We waited all this time and his argument (at the time) was essentially “I don’t like uni Toad”This is really disrespectful Cal. The thread had gone back to a peaceful state but the moment Dino returns and expresses his disagreements once again you and other people start to poison the well once more.
Again, don't be disrespectful, there is more to his posts than that.I called a spade a spade. We waited all this time and his argument (at the time) was essentially “I don’t like uni Toad”
Dino the only feat that’s uni coming from Bowser is from paper Bowser, and the rest of the posse survive it with him.
Sure, when I called him out on it, he came back with more to it. But no, at the time, it wasn’t.Again, don't be disrespectful, there is more to his posts than that.
Yes, the one feat out of...what was it, four? Five? Five feats being discussed in detail here involve an amped Bowser. And yet Dino said that most of them were. At best you could say the Olly feat involved an amped Bowser, but Bowser wasn’t even fighting Mario then.Cal, you can't say this with a straight face when for several pages people are trying to argue Bowser in base scales to Grand Star people while also arguing Base Mario scales to Grand Star-amped Bowser. The circular scaling is the issue.
He didn't, he said that it was a major problem he has. Again, you don't need to misrepresent a person's arguments.Yes, the one feat out of...what was it, four? Five? Five feats being discussed in detail here involve an amped Bowser. And yet Dino said that most of them were. At best you could say the Olly feat involved an amped Bowser, but Bowser wasn’t even fighting Mario then.
The entire crux of the argument in the latest post (the one that doesn’t involve incredulity) was about how multiple feats come from Bowser and that’s it’s circular scaling. That’s outright false. A grand total of one listed feat involves scaling to an amped Bowser, and it’s not even one that I’ve been arguing.He didn't, he said that it was a major problem he has. Again, you don't need to misrepresent a person's arguments.
Agreed. I and likely many others here are very stressed out by the world's ongoing political upheavals, but I am at least still making an effort to not take out said stress, anger, and anxiety on others here, so we can try to keep this as a form of safe haven, and would appreciate if all other members would make an effort to do the same thing.This thread cannot stay on track for over 15 posts, huh? Is it a rule I missed or something?
Yes, I cannot object to that logic, but he at least seems to try to stay on topic here in this thread, and it would be much more constructive if we discuss how to practically apply my suggestion of several statistics keys for Mario, Bowser, and other affected characters, one of which would be Low 2-C.That is Matt, yes. My point is if the person mainly arguing thinks this the most wanked verse on this site, do you not think that even gives off a hint of bias?
@Dino_Ranger_Black @DarkDragonMedeus @AKM sama @Ryukama @GyroNutz @The_real_cal_howardI think that the only workable solution here, to avoid extreme inconsistency and the kind of illogical circular scaling that DRB mentioned, might be to figure out a compromise solution, wherein Mario, Bowser, and others get more statistics keys, to accommodate that their power levels differ greatly from game to game.