Low 1-C neutral space dbs

[Serlock_Holmes]

just downgrade DB to 3-B lol

Make a crt if you want to.

 

[KingNanaya]

Make a crt if you want to.

it was a joke lil bro. stand down

 

[Georredannea15]

Again read this again, by this logic all 2B becomes low 1-C, why cause they are timelines that do not touch no matter how they extend so destroying 2 means destroying what they are extended over hence low 1-C.
That is all.

By this logic, a space containing every 2-B or 2-C would not be Low 1-C or 5-D. This requires something more than a simple gap between them, but that they do not intersect on any angular axis. Or something more bullshit

You can simply draw smaller lines inside a line with gaps between them, but this does not mean that the line is 2-dimensional.

Please check what I said again, there is no need to reply to everything

What I mean here is that what you say is for topological structures, but there is no topological structure here.

And what prove do you have that is 5D? I mean send the scans

It is true that we do not give tier to every higher-dimensional plane, but the fact that this higher-dimensional plane has a universal sized (even larger than them), is a spatial dimension and has 5 dimensional axes can make it Low 1-C, that was my claim.

Don't misunderstand, I'm not a supporter of the verse, I just expressed that a few things you said don't fit here

So your claim now is that universe 1 through 9 are parallel timelines?

No,I just don't agree with Low 1-C timeline bullshit.

While I respect the three of them, I don't care about what they said outside this thread since the ones who are quoting them cannot even defend their point. Either way, do send what DT and Ultima said, I'd like to see it as I am sure you are misinterpreting what they said.

I already quoted. And I talked to Executor in DM, but as I said before, I don't like quote to post DM conversations here, so I'm waiting for them

 

[PrinceofPein]

By this logic, a space containing every 2-B or 2-C would not be Low 1-C or 5-D. This requires something more than a simple gap between them, but that they do not intersect on any angular axis. Or something more bullshit

Tier 2 is for universes that do no intersect and I know that because I made the thread to change the standard for that. So yes all 2B becomes low 1-C since the space between them can contain them in a way they do not intersect no matter how you stretch them.
Please read the FAQ or the universe page.

It is true that we do not give tier to every higher-dimensional plane, but the fact that this higher-dimensional plane has a universal sized (even larger than them), is a spatial dimension and has 5 dimensional axes can make it Low 1-C, that was my claim.

Okay low 1-C all 2-B and above, but we do not give tiers to such spaces or their destruction unless it was explicitly stated it is higher dimensional.
I feel like you do not understand the consequences of your claims.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am genuinely starting to believe you do not understand what you are saying at this point, so I will stop replying to you.

 

[ImmortalDread]

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am genuinely starting to believe you do not understand what you are saying at this point, so I will stop replying to you.

You are not the only one who is experimenting like that.

 

[BasedNecoScaler69]

Tier 2 is for universes that do no intersect and I know that because I made the thread to change the standard for that. So yes all 2B becomes low 1-C since the space between them can contain them in a way they do not intersect no matter how you stretch them.
Please read the FAQ or the universe page.


Okay low 1-C all 2-B and above, but we do not give tiers to such spaces or their destruction unless it was explicitly stated it is higher dimensional.
I feel like you do not understand the consequences of your claims.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am genuinely starting to believe you do not understand what you are saying at this point, so I will stop replying to you.

he's literally quoting one of the standards

 

[Georredannea15]

Tier 2 is for universes that do no intersect and I know that because I made the thread to change the standard for that. So yes all 2B becomes low 1-C since the space between them can contain them in a way they do not intersect no matter how you stretch them.
Please read the FAQ or the universe page.

However, not intersecting the gaps between them is different from not intersecting on any angular axis. I have already quoted above. Even though it's not here, I showed it to you. So all we have to do is just wait

Okay low 1-C all 2-B and above, but we do not give tiers to such spaces or their destruction unless it was explicitly stated it is higher dimensional.
I feel like you do not understand the consequences of your claims.

I don't mean to be rhetorical, but since when have precise statements become mandatory for Tier? Never.

Don't take this the wrong way, but I am genuinely starting to believe you do not understand what you are saying at this point, so I will stop replying to you.

Ahhh... I adore these people.

I adore those who object and cannot refute the quoted comments, saying "you're getting it wrong", taking the argument to their side, and never admitting that they're wrong and saying "I'm not going to argue with you anymore".

Frankly, I don't care for Low 1-C but I still advocate it, and it might be wrong. But it's a 5-dimensional space with a universal sized(even larger than them)

 

[TiltedFN]

First I will say, stop taking other people's argument that you do not understand or cannot defend and use it as a point. Ultima's post in the KH thread refers to a different context, which has a lot more context than 3 pictures you provided here.

The same logic of parallelism still applies, so I was using it as extra evidence.

Secondly, by your logic all 2B and above should become low 1-C, since they need to destroy the space between the universes before they can get to the other universes. As what I am seeing here is that the neutral space is just the space that separates the universes.

Why does destroying multiple universes mean you have to destroy the space in between? Why would that always be the case with anybody who is 2-B? People can be 2-B for manipulation these constructs, or creating them, crossing that 5d space with energy to destroy a 4d construct ≠ destroying that 5d space, or even destroying a part of it. Not every 2-B or 2-A con destroy the space that surrounds it.

Thirdly, energy has no dimension so it would travel through a 5D space same way it will travel through a 2D plane, hence why we do not grant low 1-C for branching or parallel timelines that are destroyed with explosion even though they are contained in a 5D structure

Again, why does this matter? The destruction between two or more timelines doesn't mean you are destroying the space in between.

Lastly, there is no proof that the neutral zone is transcendent to the various universes or higher D to them, which is the context KH has.

But there is though, how would an extra spatial dimension not be transcendent automatically? Especially in this context? This space holds all the universes and then some, so that alone is enough for it to be 5d, having an extra spatial dimension.

And lastly again, you can extend 4D infinitely through a 5D space and the 5D volume will still be zero, this is referring to the infinitely extending 4D point I saw in this thread.

Yes I know, so wouldn't this mean destroying the space would be 2-A minimum? Because that means you can put an infinite amount of macrocosms in this space without filling up the 5th axis.

 

[TiltedFN]

Even if it was insignificant 5-D, the neutral zone is verbatim called a separate space, and we know when referring to separate spaces in DB, it can mean spacetime, and in this context, this would mean the neutral zone also has it's own temporal dimension. So that would be enough for qualitative superiority, hence low 1-C.


12 宇宙とは異なる空間に浮かぶ惑星
"Planets floating in different spaces from that of the 12 universes". Obviously this space would be the neutral zone, higher temporal flow.

 

[Robo432343]

Even if it was insignificant 5-D, the neutral zone is verbatim called a separate space, and we know when referring to separate spaces in DB, it can mean spacetime, and in this context, this would mean the neutral zone also has it's own temporal dimension. So that would be enough for qualitative superiority, hence low 1-C.


12 宇宙とは異なる空間に浮かぶ惑星
"Planets floating in different spaces from that of the 12 universes". Obviously this space would be the neutral zone, higher temporal flow.

aight lil bro

 

[DivineAura44]

aight lil bro

Just say your mad Krillin solos you're favorite verse

 

[AguilaR202]

isn’t there a scene where súper shenron appears that shows neutral space is just the overlapping space between U7 and U6? The floating space balls shown by whis are only representative of the universes, not an actual depiction of the structure of the multiverse or the space between them.



At 28 seconds, we see neutral space seems to be an area were U7 and U6 intersect.

 

[TiltedFN]

isn’t there a scene where súper shenron appears that shows neutral space is just the overlapping space between U7 and U6? The floating space balls shown by whis are only representative of the universes, not an actual depiction of the structure of the multiverse or the space between them.



At 28 seconds, we see neutral space seems to be an area were U7 and U6 intersect.

u6 and u7 didn't intersect, was just the light, and different visual representations of the universes are shown throughout the series. And we only see that representation once, confirmed by the guidebook scan that all the 12 universes do indeed lie in that space. We actually see the globe depictions show up more.

 

[AguilaR202]

u6 and u7 didn't intersect, was just the light, and different visual representations of the universes are shown throughout the series. And we only see that representation once, confirmed by the guidebook scan that all the 12 universes do indeed lie in that space.

That’s not just the light, we can see the edge of the two universes touching as the light fades away, guidebook models are secondary material and even basic macrocosm maps aren’t truly representative of what all of the realms in a single universe actually look like.

 

[TiltedFN]

That’s not just the light, we can see the edge of the two universes touching as the light fades away, guidebook models are secondary material and even basic macrocosm maps aren’t truly representative of what all of the realms in a single universe actually look like.

They aren't even touching lmao, we even see them in between the two universes, I shouldn't have to go over this. And that is the light from super shenron, the globe depiction shows up more than the one we saw on screen, I posted all of them in the CRT. To say they are touching is objectively wrong. But yes the true depiction is never shown, but in the grand scheme of things, we know how the universes are structured. And the guidebook scan literally tells us what that space is, so it is shown in the anime, manga, and the guidebook.

 

[AguilaR202]

They aren't even touching lmao, we even see them in between the two universes, I shouldn't have to go over this. And that is the light from super shenron, the globe depiction shows up more than the one we saw on screen, I posted all of them in the CRT. To say they are touching is objectively wrong. But yes the true depiction is never shown, but in the grand scheme of things, we know how the universes are structured. And the guidebook scan literally tells us what that space is, so it is shown in the anime, manga, and the guidebook.

Nope, they literally are shown to be intersecting at the edge, which explains why neutral space has celestial objects to begin with, we also see the empty space where universes don’t actually intersect to be fully fully dark in that very same scene so neutral space is just space from both universes as opposed to it being the empty void/5-D, they are not the same thing.

 

[TiltedFN]

Nope, they literally are shown to be intersecting at the edge, which explains why neutral space has celestial objects to begin with, we also see the empty space where universes don’t actually intersect to be fully fully dark in that very same scene so neutral space is just space from both universes as opposed to it being the empty void/5-D, they are not the same thing.

They don't intersect at all , how about you go look at the 5 different crts explaining why they are 2-C constructs to begin with, we see where super shenron was summoned, that massive light emerged from him, and from in between the universes, we never see the universes even ONCE, even panning out on shenrons entire body we do not see the universes at all, they are not intersecting, you have 0 proof here. And there is no fully dark space shown in that clip at all. It's not space of both universes, its completely separate, outside of it entirely. That is the reason its called the neutral zone, and acknowledged to be its OWN SPACE in the guide book. We know because they are different spacetimes, they can't be accessed by physical movement, which would be impossible if they actually joined, you seem to not understand the cosmology fully.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

They just seem to be extremely close not actually touching lmfao.

 

[TiltedFN]

They just seem to be extremely close not actually touching lmfao.

Even then, they aren't even actually close to each other, we never see the universes when panned out multi-galactic distances in between both of the universes. Its just another depiction, saying they are touching is false. And we know they can never touch.

 

[DaReaperMan]

They just seem to be extremely close not actually touching lmfao.

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[AguilaR202]

They don't intersect at all , how about you go look at the 5 different crts explaining why they are 2-C constructs to begin with, we see where super shenron was summoned, that massive light emerged from him, and from in between the universes, we never see the universes even ONCE, even panning out on shenrons entire body we do not see the universes at all, they are not intersecting, you have 0 proof here. And there is no fully dark space shown in that clip at all. It's not space of both universes, its completely separate, outside of it entirely. That is the reason its called the neutral zone, and acknowledged to be its OWN SPACE in the guide book. We know because they are different spacetimes, they can't be accessed by physical movement, which would be impossible if they actually joined, you seem to not understand the cosmology fully.

Neutral zone is just a naming convention in no way it is meant to suggest spatiotemporal separation from zones that aren’t quote end quote neutral, much like how you can have so called neutral spaces between two different countries despite being part of the literal same landmass, again, we actually do see the void where the edges of both universes aren’t close to eachother and we see it’s completely dark compared to the universes themselves, meaning the true space containing them all is not neutral space and should be devoid of celestial objects.

You can’t see the edges of 3D/4-D object from the inside, it doesn’t matter when the image showing the universes to intersect is a perspective outside both space times, so shenron being able to grow full size and us not seeing a clear cut distinction of where one universe starts and another ends in no way proves neutral space is separate from the space of U7/6.

 

[Hasty12345]

they may not physically intersect in 3D space, but their timelines do physically intersect as seen via time travel mechanics.

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

they may not physically intersect in 3D space, but their timelines do physically intersect as seen via time travel mechanics.

Huh? That's just dimensional travel.

 

[Georredannea15]

they may not physically intersect in 3D space, but their timelines do physically intersect as seen via time travel mechanics.

It is impossible for 4-D universes to be suspended in 3-D space. The gaps between the 4-D universes cannot form a travelling path through 3-D space. For this, the space must be a larger 4-D space or a higher dimensional(5-D or higher) space. This is already written on the page.

 

[TiltedFN]

Yeah these 4d spaces are still parallel to each other, not physically touching, but still being in the same physicals space, that's 5d. Makes no sense to be a 4d space.

 

[Vietthai96]

That’s not just the light, we can see the edge of the two universes touching as the light fades away, guidebook models are secondary material and even basic macrocosm maps aren’t truly representative of what all of the realms in a single universe actually look like.

not this again, if you take that visual scene literal, you should take all of it literal, which mean universe is just a galaxy. You can't just nitpicking a part of the visual while discard other parts because you like it

 

[TiltedFN]

they may not physically intersect in 3D space, but their timelines do physically intersect as seen via time travel mechanics.

What does time travel have to do with the macrocosms timelines intersecting? We already know that that they are completely separate. But they are still under the timelines higher time flow.

 

[TiltedFN]

not this again, if you take that visual scene literal, you should take all of it literal, which mean universe is just a galaxy. You can't just nitpicking a part of the visual while discard other parts because you like it

Seriously, bro is trying to say the neutral space isn't separate when it literally is, and we know they aren't touching at all.

 

[Hasty12345]

It is impossible for 4-D universes to be suspended in 3-D space. The gaps between the 4-D universes cannot form a travelling path through 3-D space. For this, the space must be a larger 4-D space or a higher dimensional(5-D or higher) space. This is already written on the page.

1. Never said they're suspended in 3D space, but 4D objects do exist on all 4 planes simultaneously, it's what makes them 4D.
2. never said they form paths between 3D space, I said their timelines intersect (4D intersection) which I don't see how you avoid given changes in 1 timeline of 1 universe/spacetime create 36 (or more idk what's currently accepted) new spacetimes

 

[Georredannea15]

1. Never said they're suspended in 3D space, but 4D objects do exist on all 4 planes simultaneously, it's what makes them 4D.

This plane " at least 4-dimensional", but if they do not intersect on any angular axis, this is 5-D.

2. never said they form paths between 3D space, I said their timelines intersect (4D intersection) which I don't see how you avoid given changes in 1 timeline of 1 universe/spacetime create 36 (or more idk what's currently accepted) new spacetimes

IDK

 

[Hasty12345]

This plane " at least 4-dimensional", but if they do not intersect on any angular axis, this is 5-D.

refer to previous comment.

They must intersect otherwise timeline creation wouldn't result in every spacetime being replicated.


we shouldn't focus too much on visual representations of 4D objects through a 2D medium, we must judge their properties in-order to quantify this stuff, and the fact is the spacetimes do intersect whether the marbles visually do or not

 

[TiltedFN]

refer to previous comment.

They must intersect otherwise timeline creation wouldn't result in every spacetime being replicated.


we shouldn't focus too much on visual representations of 4D objects through a 2D medium, we must judge their properties in-order to quantify this stuff, and the fact is the spacetimes do intersect whether the marbles visually do or not

I'm confused on what you mean by they "intersect". Isn't the reason everything under the timeline gets duplicated when someone time travels because the timeline is a higher time flow?

 

[Hasty12345]

I'm confused on what you mean by they "intersect". Isn't the reason everything under the timeline gets duplicated when someone time travels because the timeline is a higher time flow?

it can only be a higher timeflow if it's uncountably infinite snapshots of 4D structures, which it is

but that doesn't change the fact those 4D structures need to intersect at some point in-order to create that higher timeflow

 

[TiltedFN]

it can only be a higher timeflow if it's uncountably infinite snapshots of 4D structures, which it is

but that doesn't change the fact those 4D structures need to intersect at some point in-order to create that higher timeflow

But they don't intersect in the neutral zone, so are you saying they intersect across the higher timeline? Isn't that with anything though?

 

[Hasty12345]

But they don't intersect in the neutral zone, so are you saying they intersect across the higher timeline? Isn't that with anything though?

how can you tell they don't intersect in the neutral zone? you're using marbles that honestly, don't even remotely represent the cosmological structure of the universes in any way to visually assess the relationship that's functionally contradicted by the timeline creation process.

 

[TiltedFN]

how can you tell they don't intersect in the neutral zone? you're using marbles that honestly, don't even remotely represent the cosmological structure of the universes in any way to visually assess the relationship that's functionally contradicted by the timeline creation process.

It's a neutral zone for a reason, it separates the universe, it speaks for itself, its just the basic definition of it. It doesn't even make any sense for them to be connect or to touch each other at all. And I'm still confused on your timeline logic, could you elaborate on that more?

 

[Fixxed]

Yeah these 4d spaces are still parallel to each other, not physically touching, but still being in the same physicals space, that's 5d. Makes no sense to be a 4d space.

Honestly it not matter even if that physically touching or interact. Because the thing that make them parallel to each other is because they have they own structure (i mean they have they own space and time)

 

[Fixxed]

For the space that seperate universes. For me it can be 5D space if that space is make the universe as a subspace for it (yeah if we take brane cosmology as example, the universe is only subspace of higher space)

Let me explain that use set as example
If i have set A that contain [1, 2, 3, 4]. If you want go from [1] to [2], it will not just one step honestly because from [1] to [2] it have very long distance that seperate them, yeah between [1] to [2] it exist [1,1.... or 1,2... or 1,00004...... or even 1,000infintely], if the size of [1] and every number between it and [2] we take as same, we can line up more infinitely of [1] to it

If the number is 4D universe then the entire structure of set A is 5D, but the space between and seperate the universe [1] and universe [2] is just 4D, it can be 2A because you still can add more infinitely universes to that space (of course if you have infinite size proof). If the set A have infinitely bigger size that mean can make the subspace of it as infinitesimall part or portion or subset it can be low 1C

 

[AguilaR202]

not this again, if you take that visual scene literal, you should take all of it literal, which mean universe is just a galaxy. You can't just nitpicking a part of the visual while discard other parts because you like it

That’s a weak af straw man argument to dismiss the scene as a whole, because it applies to the same models you want to base this upgrade on, so we shouldn’t take them at face value either because they also depict the universes a single large galaxies.

Also you people don’t even go into detail as to what the marble models are meant to actually represent, are they meant to depict what the macrocosm with all its substructures actually looks like as a whole from the outside or are they just the living worlds of their respective macrocosm which brings into question wether those structures themselves are a model of a single 4-D object or an space containing multiple 4-D ones at the same time, first case would make it so that the lack of separation is an issue because that means all living worlds are connected and the only truly separate spacetimes are the sub dimensions ( heaven hell/ Kai realm) whereas the latter would make it so even if the realms are connected from an outside view/ perspective they’d still be fully separate from within.