Lord of the Rings general revision thread: Return of the Thread

[Tyranno223]

Do you think Fingolfin will ever get Rage Power? (cuz of his Rage Aura and whatnot)

He doesn't seem to get any actual power from his rage if memory serves me correctly, but he'd probably get some Fear Manipulation considering everything that saw him was terrified.

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, if that's possible, thanks!

No problem.

I have handled it. Tell me here when you are done please.

 

[Tyranno223]

Minor addendum, but I realised that the Powers and Resistances of the Ainur page I made has a few obvious errors while I was making my changes.

---

We accepted Dura-neg for the Ainur due to Maiar like Tilion being able to attack spirits and such directly, Maiar being able to directly affect souls while ignoring the body, etc. But we currently only have the Valar and Greater Maiar stated to be able to use Soul Manipulation. This should be changed so the Maiar can use them as well.

Also noticed that Age Manipulation has this line

• "But it seems that there was no general “law” of time governing all things in Aman. Each living thing, individually and not only each kind or variety of living things, was under the care of the Valar and their attendant Máyar. [8] Each was maintained in some form of beauty oruse, for the Valar and for one another. This plant might be allowed to ripento seed, and that plant be maintained in blossom. [9] This beast might walkin the strength and freedom of its youth, another might find a mate and bring up its young..."

As part of the justification. This again mentions the Maiar but I only gave the ability to the Valar and Greater Maiar so this would need to be indexed under the Maiar as well.

 

[Antvasima]

That seems uncontroversial to correct then.

 

[Hsharpe]

I feel like War of the Ring Sauron should be upgraded to 6-B at one point because of his feat of shaking Mordor, and we could potentially scale Narsil/Andúril to 5-C/4-C at minimum since it has the light/power of the Sun and Moon after all.

 

[Tyranno223]

That seems uncontroversial to correct then.

Are two staff votes required for uncontroversial changes?

 

[Antvasima]

Are two staff votes required for uncontroversial changes?

I think that it should be sufficient in this case at least.

 

[Antvasima]

Actually it seems like only one staff member approval is required for self-evident revisions.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules#Minor_Content_Revisions

 

[Tyranno223]

Lord of the Rings - Gandalf and Durin's Bane kick up a storm

vsbattles.fandom.com

Finally got a new calc to replace the currently iffy scaling to Morgoth's scream.

Thanks to Armorchompy for making it and Antvasima for pointing me their way!

 

[Tyranno223]

Actually it seems like only one staff member approval is required for self-evident revisions.

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Discussion_Rules#Minor_Content_Revisions

Thanks, I'll make the changes alongside the last of the pages.

EDIT: The pages can be locked now! Thanks.

 

[Antvasima]

Thanks, I'll make the changes alongside the last of the pages.

EDIT: The pages can be locked now! Thanks.

No problem, and I have locked them again now.

 

[Hsharpe]

I think a recalc of Sauron’s shaking of Mordor feat should be made at some point.

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I feel like War of the Ring Sauron should be upgraded to 6-B at one point because of his feat of shaking Mordor, and we could potentially scale Narsil/Andúril to 5-C/4-C at minimum since it has the light/power of the Sun and Moon after all.

5-C/4-C Narsíl/Andúril seems a bit iffy since it's only stated to contain light from the moon and sin as opposed to the totality of their power. I'm fine with War of the Ring Sauron being 6-B tho

 

[Tyranno223]

5-C/4-C Narsíl/Andúril seems a bit iffy since it's only stated to contain light from the moon and sin as opposed to the totality of their power. I'm fine with War of the Ring Sauron being 6-B tho

Essentially my view on Narsil/Andúril. Mortally wounding LA Sauron is the best feat the blade has (as far as I know) so that's the best way to scale it.

The WotR shaking feat could do with a re calc, yeah. LotR in general needs more calcs. Still waiting on the Gandalf/Durin’s Bane one I requested to be evaluated for example.

 

[Hellbeast]

I think a recalc of Sauron’s shaking of Mordor feat should be made at some point.

Hmm how come

 

[SheevShezarrine]

Hmm how come

Earthquake calcs kinda have a tendency to suck copious amounts of ass and need to be double-checked and redone on a frequent basis cus there's almost always some overlooked context that either tanks or boosts the actual yield when accounted for
For example, Talion used to be 8-A scaling to an enemy that could collapse a cave with its seismic-esque shockwaves. Thing is, caves are incredibly sensitive to even the slightest seismic activity, so a using cave-in isn't exactly a solid way to gauge Richter Scale

 

[Hellbeast]

Earthquake calcs kinda have a tendency to suck copious amounts of ass and need to be double-checked and redone on a frequent basis cus there's almost always some overlooked context that either tanks or boosts the actual yield when accounted for
For example, Talion used to be 8-A scaling to an enemy that could collapse a cave with its seismic-esque shockwaves. Thing is, caves are incredibly sensitive to even the slightest seismic activity, so a using cave-in isn't exactly a solid way to gauge Richter Scale

I mean that's true but is there anything wrong with the calc as is

 

[SheevShezarrine]

I mean that's true but is there anything wrong with the calc as is

I dunno, I'm guessing what the evaluation and/or redux is for

 

[Hsharpe]

Hmm how come

Because iirc, the earthquake Sauron pulled off reached from Barad-dûr (assuming that was where the epicenter was) all the way to Frodo and Sam’s position at the stairs of Cirith Ungol or Minas Morgul (I may need to reread that part). And the fact alone that said earthquake feat was merely a message. But I dunno, that could just be me.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Sauron covered in Mordor in a thunderstorm and then expanded that all the way to Gondor. It might be a movie only feat, but I will go through the books. Should get him 7A higher.

 

[Hellbeast]

If you're referring to the storm he made in the books it's been calculated at Town level

 

[Tyranno223]

If you're referring to the storm he made in the books it's been calculated at Town level

Really? Where?

 

[Hellbeast]

Here, look under power for Sauron

 

[Tyranno223]

Here, look under power for Sauron

Seems a bit of a low-ball since the storm was "deepening", but that aside, it seems alright. Shame.

 

[LegendariumOfLies]

Are Hobbits really 10-B? They can throw rocks hard enough to one-shot fully armored Uruk-Hai.

 

[Hsharpe]

Are Hobbits really 10-B? They can throw rocks hard enough to one-shot fully armored Uruk-Hai.

Pretty sure they were even lower, 10-C. They only get a 'higher' rating cus of weapons like Sting

 

[Hellbeast]

Do they knock out Uruks in the book

 

[Armorchompy]

Are Hobbits really 10-B? They can throw rocks hard enough to one-shot fully armored Uruk-Hai.

That's just accurate to what slings can do IRL

 

[Tyranno223]

Pippin kills a Hill troll chief, but that's with a magic dagger. Physically, Hobbits are not incomparable with humans. The Bullroarer, who is admittedly probably the strongest, knocked the head of a goblin king with one strike from a wooden club. It went flying a 100 feet according to Tolkien Gateway.

Goblins being weaker than humans to a notable, but not incomparable degree.

Other Hobbits are less impressive in general, but still in a similar range.

 

[Hellbeast]

Pippin kills a Hill troll chief, but that's with a magic dagger. Physically, Hobbits are not incomparable with humans. The Bullroarer, who is admittedly probably the strongest, knocked the head of a goblin king with one strike from a wooden club. It went flying a 100 feet according to Tolkien Gateway.

And invented golf

 

[Antvasima]

What currently needs to be done here?

 

[Tyranno223]

What currently needs to be done here?

Nothing in particular. I am waiting for the calc posted in this thread and the calc evaluation thread to be evaluated I suppose.

That aside, the next major revision on my end is still a bit away.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Have you asked for help in our calculation evaluation requests thread?

 

[Tyranno223]

Okay. Have you asked for help in our calculation evaluation requests thread?

Yes. It's been on the there sincd August. Still bumping away for now.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. The next time you are allowed to bump (once every 14 days), you can mention that I would appreciate the help.

 

[Tyranno223]

Right, new big revision coming up! This is essentially a physiology page for the Elves + their general magics.

Elven Draft

vsbattles.fandom.com

Some miscellaneous and less miscellaneous stuff in addition:

• Songs of Power are shared between Ainur and Elves. The former already have a summaries version on page so I'll link it that section to the Elven page for the rest of the abilities.
• Aragorn got a "possibly" resistance to Fear Manipulation since it was unsure if the Army of the Dead gave off supernatural fear. But as noted in the draft page, I found a statement that ghosts and wraiths give off a supernatural fear. Also he faces the Nazgul who have it on page (which will be revised too one day, I swear).
• As noted in the "limited" possession section, when a Houseless Elf spirit tries to take any living body, the soul inside the body can fight back and even win. Thus all characters in-verse should receive a resistance to possessionand an additional to their resistance to soul manipulation since they can fight and struggle against the soul to push them back out.
  • Oh, and Sauron should solidly be able to possess rather than "possibly" as well since it's confirmed spirits can possess bodies.
• Empathic Manipulation should be layered. Elves can resist their own EM but beings with the Light of Aman can EM them. Beings with the Light of Aman can also resist their own EM, but Songs of Power can EM them. Notably the Ainur resist their own EM from Songs of Power, although exceptional cases such as Lúthien can EM them.
• Elven Superhuman stamina gets a significant boost. Elves can go for centuries, possibly millennia, without food, water, or sleep (At least 200 years up to 3168 years).

 

[NaturalDestroyer]

Right, new big revision coming up! This is essentially a physiology page for the Elves + their general magics.

Elven Draft

vsbattles.fandom.com

Some miscellaneous stuff in addition:

• Songs of Power are shared between Ainur and Elves. The former already have a summaries version on page so I'll link it to the Elven page for the rest of the abilities.
• Aragorn got a "possibly" resistance to Fear Manipulation since it was unsure if the Army of the Dead gave off supernatural fear. But as noted in the draft page, I found a statement that ghosts and wraiths give off a supernatural fear. Also he faces the Nazgul who have it on page (which will be revised too one day, I swear).
• As noted in the "limited" possession section, when a Houseless Elf spirit tries to take a body, the spirit inside the body can fight back and even win. Thus all characters should receive a resistance to possession and an additional to their resistance to soul manipulation since they can fight and struggle against the soul to push them back out.
  • Oh, and Sauron should solidly receive a rating as well since it's confirmed spirits can possess bodies.
• Empathic Manipulation should be layered. Elves can resist their own EM but beings with the Light of Aman can EM them. Beings with the Light of Aman can also resist their own EM, but Songs of Power can EM them. Notably the Ainur resist their own EM from Songs of Power, although exceptional cases such as Lúthien can EM them.

Looks fantastic!

 

[Grand_Astartes]

Right, new big revision coming up! This is essentially a physiology page for the Elves + their general magics.

Elven Draft

vsbattles.fandom.com

Some miscellaneous stuff in addition:

• Songs of Power are shared between Ainur and Elves. The former already have a summaries version on page so I'll link it to the Elven page for the rest of the abilities.
• Aragorn got a "possibly" resistance to Fear Manipulation since it was unsure if the Army of the Dead gave off supernatural fear. But as noted in the draft page, I found a statement that ghosts and wraiths give off a supernatural fear. Also he faces the Nazgul who have it on page (which will be revised too one day, I swear).
• As noted in the "limited" possession section, when a Houseless Elf spirit tries to take a body, the spirit inside the body can fight back and even win. Thus all characters should receive a resistance to possession and an additional to their resistance to soul manipulation since they can fight and struggle against the soul to push them back out.
  • Oh, and Sauron should solidly receive a rating as well since it's confirmed spirits can possess bodies.
• Empathic Manipulation should be layered. Elves can resist their own EM but beings with the Light of Aman can EM them. Beings with the Light of Aman can also resist their own EM, but Songs of Power can EM them. Notably the Ainur resist their own EM from Songs of Power, although exceptional cases such as Lúthien can EM them.

You're helping carry the verse rn haha. Good job

 

[Tyranno223]

Forgot to add something for the power null part of Songs of Power.

Songs of Power begin having an effect the moment the song begins, as seen in multiple accounts, but during the duel between Finrod and Sauron, neither chief effect takes place.

They can essentially nullify things like Songs of Power with their own song (albeit, in this particular case, the power null effect only lasts if they win the duel).

 

[Tyranno223]

A bump in the dark.