Lord of the Rings general revision thread: Return of the Thread

[Tyranno223]

The magic thing is a bit weird, I can think of other verses where we've decidedly not done that, but it's a minor point so I'll cede since it's purely for indexing.

I'll make a note in the justification that it's not "usable" magic and purely for indexing, although I'll add that Legolas probably knows some for his heritage and age but that it's never displayed.

 

[Gasper]

Can anyone please explain Faramir's Telepathy to me? I can't seem to understand from where it cames from.

 

[Tyranno223]

Can anyone please explain Faramir's Telepathy to me? I can't seem to understand from where it cames from.

Denethor can use telepathy due to his Númenórean heritage and Faramir is directly quoted to have inherited this unlike Boromir.

 

[Gasper]

Denethor can use telepathy due to his Númenórean heritage and Faramir is directly quoted to have inherited this unlike Boromir.

I see. Makes sense.

 

[Tyranno223]

I see. Makes sense.

I put the full telepathy quote under Aragorn who also has it. Also Boromir to specify it as a blessing he lacks.

 

[Antvasima]

I think that what Bambu and Medeus accepted above can be applied.

 

[Tyranno223]

Snip

Forgot to ask but how does Aragorn's stuff look? Wasn't sure how to rate the curse in particular.

 

[Gasper]

I know this dosen't have anything to do with the CRT but all Ainur should have astral projection https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Astral_Projection which is missing from their powers and abilities page.

 

[Tyranno223]

I know this dosen't have anything to do with the CRT but all Ainur should have astral projection https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Astral_Projection which is missing from their powers and abilities page.

It's not really Astral Projection, they don't leave a body when they exit it, they unmake it and then remake it upon being finished with spiritual business.

An ability they do miss is Dimensional Travel though.

 

[Gasper]

It's not really Astral Projection, they don't leave a body when they exit it, they unmake it and then remake it upon being finished with spiritual business.

An ability they do miss is Dimensional Travel though.

I always imagined them exiting their body but if that's how it works then aight.

Don't they also miss soul manipulation alongside their fear manipulation?

I think they should also have (at least Morgoth) chaos manipulation and corruption, Sauron as well, but i don't know if all Ainur can corrupt something or just evil ones.

Edit: don't they also fly in their spirit forms?

 

[Tyranno223]

I always imagined them exiting their body but if that's how it works then aight.

Don't they also miss soul manipulation alongside their fear manipulation?

I think they should also have (at least Morgoth) chaos manipulation and corruption, Sauron as well, but i don't know if all Ainur can corrupt something or just evil ones.

They manipulate matter around their spirit to form their fanar.

They have soul manipulation and fear manipulation is largely reserved for the fallen Ainur, which is gonna be covered with evil characters. Although the Ainur might get it if I check over some of Gandalf's stuff

Morgoth gets corruption and probably that too. Sauron gets corruption probably, not sure abour the other one.

Corruption is theoretically doable by every Ainur, it is just infusing themselves into reality afterall.

Edit: Good point, they should be able to fly.

 

[Gasper]

I just looked over Morgoth's profile and there are some abilities that aren't listen in powers and abilities for all Ainur like Energy Manipulation, projection, and Forcefield Creation, transmutation time manipulation and time stop and invisibility. Is there a reason for that?

Also, i think Morgoth also regenerates his head in Morgoth's ring so mid regen?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Forgot to ask but how does Aragorn's stuff look? Wasn't sure how to rate the curse in particular.

I wouldn't agree with Causality Manipulation for his curse. I would also say that from baseline reading, that's just a sort of warrior's oath, but I will defer to you in how magic works: if he explicitly can do it, then I will take it as you describe it, so "possibly Curse Manipulation/Death Manipulation" is fine.

Fear Manipulation might not strictly be an actual thing, the Army of the Dead was just actually terrifying on its own without any supernatural ability behind it, and it stands to reason that Aragorn as its then leader (...summoner? petitioner? whatever, you understand) wouldn't be affected. That said, I note that they are described as beings of "fear and darkness" so I think there's some argument to be head, ig- but it also seems like they themselves can decide who it affects, having told the captives to just not be afraid when freed (who then proceeded to not kill themselves like their captors did). I'd rather a "possibly" here, too, basically, for the Resistance.

The last bit of Fear Manipulation, again, may just straight up be that the artifact itself is frightening to behold. It created a light akin to a star more or less point-blank. I'd be scared.

 

[Tyranno223]

I just looked over Morgoth's profile and there are some abilities that aren't listen in powers and abilities for all Ainur like Energy Manipulation, projection, and Forcefield Creation, time manipulation and time stop and invisibility. Is there a reason for that?

Also, i think Morgoth also regenerates his head in Dagor Dagorath so mid regen?

All the unhighlighted abilities are leftovers from MasterofArda's run. I'm keeping them there until everything's resolved so the profiles aren't empty copypastes.

Dagor Dagorath is canonically ambigious enough that we shouldn't use it. The basic concept remains canon, the idea of a final battle, but there wasn't a draft he made that came close to proper finalisation. The last version he made was scrapped for instance to the point Christopher thought it was outright abandoned till after the Published Silmarillion.

 

[Tyranno223]

I wouldn't agree with Causality Manipulation for his curse. I would also say that from baseline reading, that's just a sort of warrior's oath, but I will defer to you in how magic works: if he explicitly can do it, then I will take it as you describe it, so "possibly Curse Manipulation/Death Manipulation" is fine.

Fear Manipulation might not strictly be an actual thing, the Army of the Dead was just actually terrifying on its own without any supernatural ability behind it, and it stands to reason that Aragorn as its then leader (...summoner? petitioner? whatever, you understand) wouldn't be affected. That said, I note that they are described as beings of "fear and darkness" so I think there's some argument to be head, ig- but it also seems like they themselves can decide who it affects, having told the captives to just not be afraid when freed (who then proceeded to not kill themselves like their captors did). I'd rather a "possibly" here, too, basically, for the Resistance.

The last bit of Fear Manipulation, again, may just straight up be that the artifact itself is frightening to behold. It created a light akin to a star more or less point-blank. I'd be scared.

Possibly sounds good. For the Elendilmir, shall I note it as limited (similar to the horn) or do you think it best removed?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Just listing it as "possibly" is fine, since it's not strictly limited if it has it, just that it might or might not. All we know is that it does scare people, whether by being legitimately intimidating or through supernatural means.

 

[Tyranno223]

Just listing it as "possibly" is fine, since it's not strictly limited if it has it, just that it might or might not. All we know is that it does scare people, whether by being legitimately intimidating or through supernatural means.

Sounds good. I'll also add a note in the profile that Andúril is already "cursed" by the Two Towers if someone wants to use that ability.

Edit: Oaths have power as a form of magic in LotR, it's how Isildur cursed the Army of the Dead and why the Sons of Fëanor suffer so much.

Isildur and Aragorn also have "magic" by descent of Melian the Maia through Luthien.

 

[Gasper]

All the unhighlighted abilities are leftovers from MasterofArda's run. I'm keeping them there until everything's resolved so the profiles aren't empty copypastes.

Dagor Dagorath is canonically ambigious enough that we shouldn't use it. The basic concept remains canon, the idea of a final battle, but there wasn't a draft he made that came close to proper finalisation. The last version he made was scrapped for instance to the point Christopher thought it was outright abandoned till after the Published Silmarillion.

So stuff like Time Manipulation, time stop, invisibility, telekinesis etc is gonna get removed?

 

[Tyranno223]

So stuff like Time Manipulation, time stop, invisibility, telekinesis etc is gonna get removed?

Time stuff yes. Invisibility is already in the Ainur page. Telekinesis not sure.

 

[Tyranno223]

General inquiry while the 48 hours is passing.

Do people think the General Revision Thread format is still necessary for LotR? Originally, it was a symptom of how much of a mess the LotR profiles are, and while they're not great yet, it's not anywhere near as awful.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Honestly probably better to have separate CRTs, if you plan on reaching out to other staff members (so they can identify what needs their approval more easily), but other than that it's probably fine to continue like this if you prefer it.

 

[Tyranno223]

48 hours passed, I'll make the changes when I'm free. I'll probably stop making General Revision threads and just open revisions normally once this one is closed. If it isn't closed by the time the individual abilities and resistances are finished, I'll request for this thread's closure then.

 

[Antvasima]

The problem is that I doubt that many people who know Lord of the Rings well will notice more specific threads for that verse unless you systematically link to them here after they have been created.

 

[Tyranno223]

The problem is that I doubt that many people who know Lord of the Rings well will notice more specific threads for that verse unless you systematically link to them here after they have been created.

Hmm. Well I am still planning to at least do the individual abilities in this format. Depending on how things go, I might not switch formats or not.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. As I said, if you create individual revision threads, they should preferably be linked to in the general discussion thread for more attention.

 

[Tyranno223]

Ah, bugger. I forgot to mention that Faramir lived till 120 in Appendix A and both Boromir + Faramir would be in their prime till the last years of their lives. It's a minor addition.

The quotes for the latter are on Aragorn's justifications. It's a minor example of Longevity more similar to the Saiyans.

"2983 Faramir son of Denethor born." - (Of the Third Age which lasts for 3019 years) - LotR: Appendix B

"He was the last of the Ruling Stewards, and was followed
by his second son Faramir, Lord of Emyn Arnen, Steward to King Elessar,
F.A. 82.
(iii)" - LotR: Appendix A.

Away from Laptop for a while, hence the format.