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Lord of the Rings Discussion Thread
- Thread starter Tyranno223
- Start date
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- #522
For the Before Eä key? I think Acausality (Type 4) kinda covers the time part at least, but sure.
Hsharpe
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For both keys, since the Ainur can still travel to the past and future even within Eä, suggesting that they’re still unbound by space-time.
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- #524
Oh, they're definetly not. One of the conditions for descending into Eä was being bound to its time and space (which, btw, also seems to make them, or at least the Valar, the life of Eä which may give a solid AE).
The ability to move through time is just their immense speed as a spirit, and even that's limited by their memory (since they cannot move through the future if they don't remember it now).
Still, the nature of the Legendarium means they are unaffected by temporal changes and they can move through most time stops with sheer speed. Spatial stuff is only an issue to their physical form, their Spirit state can bypass a lot of it.
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Oh yeah, that's the map I used in my Ancalagon vs Godzilla video from 2016. I think it ended up scaling Thangorodrim's peaks to around 135 miles across
Hsharpe
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Like personally, I never scaled Ancalagon's size to all three mountains, given that would make Ancalagon way too massive. I would however scale him to at least one of the mountains of Thangorodrim, keeps him at a more reasonable but still incredibly colossal size. Besides, the impact of his fall sunk Beleriand, so safe to say that the shockwave of his impact would've pulverized the other two mountains, assuming he fell on one.
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- #530
Nice if it gets accepted. Ancalagon should scale to a "Possibly" High 3-A from probably fighting Thorondor, so he'll have that too as the high end.
Gandalf the White does have a body puppetry feat against Saruman with his voice. Ainur in general can manipulate matter to likely achieve a similar effect.
However, I don't recall any outright telekinesis.
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- #532
I headcanon her as a Fallen Ainu and it's an in-universe theory that she was one of Morgoth's followers until she broke away.
It's also suggested in the notes, with Morgoth being compared to Ungoliant as spirits that eventually became stuck in a singular physical form.
However, it's not 100% confirmed. She at most get a "possibly" for the abilities and resistances (Greater Maiar or Valar, idk) but nothing more. No second key either because it's too uncertain.
Hsharpe
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@NaturalDestroyer yo I have an Ultimate Battles idea you might find interesting (assuming you still do those):
Melkor/Morgoth VS The Absolute Solver
These should help you in scaling the Solver if you're unfamiliar with its scalings and hax:
omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com
omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com
omniversal-battlefield.fandom.com
There's even a Murder Drones scaling thread here on the Forum.
Small sidenote: Sorry if I talk about Murder Drones a lot in unrelated threads. I'm honestly as much of a Murder Drones fan as I am a Tolkien fan.
Melkor/Morgoth VS The Absolute Solver
These should help you in scaling the Solver if you're unfamiliar with its scalings and hax:
Cyn (AbsoluteSolver)
Cyn, otherwise known as Robo-Satan or Little Anti-Christ, is the main antagonist of Murder Drones. She originally was a Worker Drone who was improperly disposed of by the JCJenson Company, which would lead to her becoming the very first host of AbsoluteSolver, an artificial intelligence that is...
Murder Drones: Turns Out There's More Hax
Murder Drones: The Nature of The Absolute Solver
There's even a Murder Drones scaling thread here on the Forum.
Small sidenote: Sorry if I talk about Murder Drones a lot in unrelated threads. I'm honestly as much of a Murder Drones fan as I am a Tolkien fan.
Hsharpe
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Thoughts on this?
https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2024/06/death-battle-predictions-sinestro-vs.html
I did notice that it made some wrong points, but given that I'm not in the right place of mind as of late, feel free to comment what the blog got right and what it got wrong, and I'll try and bring it up with the blog poster(s) if possible.
https://g1dbteamblogs.blogspot.com/2024/06/death-battle-predictions-sinestro-vs.html
I did notice that it made some wrong points, but given that I'm not in the right place of mind as of late, feel free to comment what the blog got right and what it got wrong, and I'll try and bring it up with the blog poster(s) if possible.
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- #535
Pretty sure I gave a vague overview in the DB thread.
Overall, nice and better than DB's take on LotR (which I still give credit to for giving so many links to use) but still imperfect. Speed being mistaken as teleportation again for instance.
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- #536
Found a hilarious but pretty good stamina feat for High Elves (and Maiar) in that Thingol and Melian ended up in a trance where they stared at each other for over 200 years without eating or sleeping. That's... surprisingly handy. Turns out google can be handy.
On a less pleasant note, Maedhros gets tortured by Morgoth for up to 33.7 years... Somehow the poor guy recovers.
On a less pleasant note, Maedhros gets tortured by Morgoth for up to 33.7 years... Somehow the poor guy recovers.
Hsharpe
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WAT? HUH???
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Me waiting for The LotR High 1-A+/0 thread to open back up because I 100% agree with it and want to voice my agreement.
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She spoke no word; but being filled with love Elwë came to her and took her
hand, and straightway a spell was laid on him, so that they stood thus while long years were measured by the wheeling stars above them; and the trees of Nan Elmoth grew tall and dark before they spoke any word.
From the Silmarillion.
1130: Thingol lost
...
1300. Thingol (by which name Elwë Singollo was after known in Beleriand) and Melian his Queen begin the building of Menegroth in Doriath, with the help of the Naugrim.
From the Natute of Middle-Earth
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You and me both...
Me waiting for The LotR High 1-A+/0 thread to open back up
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Why was it closed?
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- #542
It's in the Queue for Tier 0 and High 1-A+ revisions.
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LOTR, Berserk, Deus Ex. God damn why do all the verse I love are either dead or stuck waiting for the calc team. Life is not daijoubu
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- #544
Elven Draft
vsbattles.fandom.com
I think that's all there is really If anything is missing, please let me know.
I do still need to add magic (like Wood Elven magic, Songs of Power, etc) so there's that.
Hsharpe
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I feel like Limited Resistance to Extreme Cold can be in the High-Elves section, cus Fingolfin and his band of Elves crossed the Helcaraxë, which is unnaturally cold and has grinding ice. The Ainur as a whole should have complete Resistance to it since both Melkor and Ungoliant crossed the Helcaraxë and were unaffected by it.Elven Draft
I think that's all there is really If anything is missing, please let me know.
I do still need to add magic (like Wood Elven magic, Songs of Power, etc) so there's that.Could also add making children to Power Bestowal for indexing, but that's just... yeah...
Also, I remember it saying that Melkor could sap power from things, which he did with Ulmo's waters. Is there a quote implying or stating this?
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- #546
Oh that could work. Would be quite limited though since it does kill a lot of them.
Not sure about the latter. I haven't gone over Melkor in detail yet.
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Why is it that SO many people downplay Prime Melkor? Like the amount of people who think that at his strongest he'd get destroyed by Tulkas, based on a statement about a much weaker Melkor is insaneee
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Prime Melkor is definitely stronger, for sure
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- #549
Tbh, the Melkor that got beaten was more powerful than Tulkas. He's still the most powerful being in Arda around the time before the Two Trees get killed in the Silmarillion.
Tulkas is just ridiculously strong in his physical stats vs everyone else. If Manwë is Marvel Odin, Tulkas is Marvel Thor with how he cut massively punch above his weight class.
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Are you referring to the time where Tulkas came to Arda and Melkor ran away?
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- #551
Yeh. Morgoth was still mightier but Tulkas is physically unmatched.
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But there were the valar too at that battle right? iirc it was like all valar + Tulkas vs Melkor so it wasn't 1v1 by the look of it.
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- #553
The initial encounter was Tulkas descending amidst the conflict and Melkor fleeing so there wasn't even a proper fight tbh.
The second one saw Manwë and Tulkas pull up before the latter suplexed Melkor hard.
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- #555
Yeah. Was a very brief fight. Manwë expected he and Tulkas would be destroyed but Melkor had diminished a lot.
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Oh yeah so in way Melkor can defeat Tulkas if he was at his prime right? What do you think?
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- #557
Theoretically, even Melkor at Utumno could have beaten Tulkas. He was more powerful.
But Tulkas is very difficult to take in head on fight due to his ridiculous physical stats.
For "Prime Melkor", well the best comparison is that most versions of Dagor Dagorath has him taken on Tulkas head on (for instance, in one version Tulkas fights Melkor with Turin and Eönwë by his side) without either one being beaten.
Manwë will also 1v1 him inconclusively (again, depends a bit on versions).
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Yeah, Khamûl is cool, but he has nothing particularly special compared to other Nazgûl. He's just the second strongest, extra vulnerable to sunlight, and somewhat better than the average in the dark if memory serves me correctly.
Not that much point.
Not that much point.
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