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Lord Harkon upgrade

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SITHISIT

SITHISIT

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Harkon should be upgraded to Low 2-C for fighting with and being comparable to a late game Dragonborn

During the Dragonborn's visit to the Soul Cairn, Durnehviir notes that his defeat of Alduin earns him the right of title of "Vanquisher"; shown here

https://youtu.be/7xCk_nxGYxw?t=181

He also notes that even from Oblivion, Alduin's death was still felt by him entirely, and says that enough was enough to pronounce LDB as vanquisher.

Which means Harkon fought against a late game LDB, and held up against them.

As such, I think that Harkon should have a Low 2-C rating.
 
Oh yeah. he can still take his form it though I would say he's weaker than it as he needs it for his plan.
 
Not necissarily true. He just doesn't have the same magical abilities as the bow, that doesn't mean he is weaker than it. Just because you don't have a certain ability doesn't mean your weaker than something else
 
fair but it is a divine artefact so it probably is stronger. Harkon spent like 3000 ish years researching the powers required to blot out the sun so he presumably looked into non bow requiring methods but was still unable.
 
Ok. The fact of the matter is Harkon contended with a post Alduin Dragon born which puts him on the same level as Miraak and the Dovahkin.
 
debatable as you can fight both Miraak and harkon before alduin but you only need a power up to fight miraak.
 
It isn't debatable. During the Dragonborn's visit to the Soul Cairn, Durnehviir notes that his defeat of Alduin earns him the right of title of "Vanquisher". So Harkon scales.
 
you can go to the soul cairn pre alduin and Durn has different dialog, so no. he also only calls you vanquisher if you have killed a dragon before fighting him, said dragon doesn't have to be Alduin.
 
Fine. Here's something. Fully daedric armor and dragon bones weapons post alduin dragonborn can confront Harkon and Harkon can still keep up him that dragonborn. Scales. He isn't some bandit that gets one shotted
 
By that reasoning most enemies in the game are low 2-C including the higher level bandits since they can shave a few hp of post mirrak LDB.

Additionaly Harkon's level scales with the pc between levels 10 and 60 were as miraak scales with the pc between levels 35 and 150 (Alduin's stats/level are fixed) so technically Harkon only scales at certain levels.
 
Oh my god. Then why do you think we scale Miraak eh? We literally can kill him before alduin but we scale him anyway, it is literally the same thing
 
Miraak's lore gives him better feats such as his duel with vahlok (who is comparable to wielders of dawn magic), one-shotting LDB on their first encounter, the 3 nord hero's asking him for help against Alduin and he didn't sit on his ass for 3000 years like harkon he was learning secret and more powerful magic.
 
First encounter LDB could be lvl 1, and its heresay to suggest Harkon was doing nothign for 3,000 years. We are never going to agree we just have to wait for other people
 
Miraak doesn't need to scale to LDB. He could slay Alduin himself back when he's still on Nirn. It doesn't matter whether the Dragonborn had killed Alduin or not, he's going to be at full power at the final confrontation with Miraak. Harkon scales to Post-Training LDB due to the Questline only start at lvl 15, a point which most players already became the Dragonborn. And also, the Dragonborn did slay a high-ranking Dragon as a part of the questline.
 
TrueBK98 said:
Miraak doesn't need to scale to LDB. He could slay Alduin himself back when he's still on Nirn. It doesn't matter whether the Dragonborn had killed Alduin or not, he's going to be at full power at the final confrontation with Miraak. Harkon scales to Post-Training LDB due to the Questline only start at lvl 15, a point which most players already became the Dragonborn. And also, the Dragonborn did slay a high-ranking Dragon as a part of the questline.
Click to expand...
I want to add that Miraak one shot high-end Dovahkiin upon meeting. Bethesda officially confirms he and Ebony Warrior are the worst threats that Dovahkiin ever faced.
 
No. None of us have agreed. The way we chose which version of The Dovahkiin to scale is based on what happened in the questline. For example, in the Dragonborn questline, Miraak stated himself that he can slay Alduin himself back on Nirn. Whether you already killed Alduin or not, Miraak and The Dovahkiin will always be at full power in the final confrontation. In the case of Harkon, there's nothing to show us that The Dovahkiin can perform Low 2-C feat in th Dawnguard questline. The Dovahkiin only killed a high-ranking dragon in that questline so we can only scale Harkon to Mid-game Dovahkiin.
 
Uh remember the part where we pointed out that our undead dragon friend also comments on the Dragonborns feat of killing alduin in the soul caryn. That alone should suffice as evidence that Harkon should be 2-C. The developers clearly put that statement in there for a reason, it would be foolish to write it off.
 
Oh, I didn't remember that part. I checked back on the initial revision for TES and it has been agreed upon that Harkon scales to The Dovahkiin is an outlier. It makes sense to treat it as an outlier since the game didn't portray him as an entity comparable to Alduin. It's best if you ask Matthew since he's the one with the knowlegde.

I'm fine with Harkon being Low 2-C but weaker than Dovahkiin and Alduin.
 
I don't know how that makes sense. The final boss of his DLC, the guy worked up to be the big badguy, and he doesn't scale to the last Dragonborn literally makes 0 sense. Harkon is very much stronger than undead dragon guy, his wife and Serana by their own statements or actions, so I don't see any other competing feats saying he shouldn't scale.
 
Being stronger than Durnehviir doesn't have much weight. Being a big bad guy doesn't mean you're as strong as other big bad guy. If Lord Harkon truly as big of a threat as Alduin, there's no way people would ignore him as they did in-game. Like I said, I'm fine with him being Low 2-C since he did banish the Dovahkiin out of his castle but we shouldn't treat him as equal to The Dovahkiin since he didn't show to be an Alduin-level threat. And Durnehviir shouldn't scale to Low 2-C Dovahkiin 'cuz it's unclear how well he stand against The Dovahkiin at that level of power due to the fact that is a game unlike movie or animated series.

It's very important to ask Matthew or Ultima to comment on here if you really want to upgrade Lord Harkon to Low 2-C.
 
TrueBK98 said:
Being stronger than Durnehviir doesn't have much weight. Being a big bad guy doesn't mean you're as strong as other big bad guy. If Lord Harkon truly as big of a threat as Alduin, there's no way people would ignore him as they did in-game. Like I said, I'm fine with him being Low 2-C since he did banish the Dovahkiin out of his castle but we shouldn't treat him as equal to The Dovahkiin since he didn't show to be an Alduin-level threat. And Durnehviir shouldn't scale to Low 2-C Dovahkiin 'cuz it's unclear how well he stand against The Dovahkiin at that level of power due to the fact that is a game unlike movie or animated series.
It's very important to ask Matthew or Ultima to comment on here if you really want to upgrade Lord Harkon to Low 2-C.
Click to expand...
If the upgrade is possible, I would also upgrade Morokei as well.
 
Has anybody asked Matthew and Ultima yet?
 
This does honestly sound like evidence that would suggest a "Possibly Low 2-C" rating, just not a definitive one. The evidence does point towards Harkon having been fought by an end-game Dragonborn, but it's not nearly as definitive or reliable as the evidence for a character like Mirrak. Not even giving Harkon a Possibly Low 2-C rating feels like it would just be ignoring the facts, but treating it as definitive is not a particularly reliable statistic.
 
I haven't ask them yet. But I did check back on an older post and it seems like Matt is against the idea of Harkon scaling to the Dovahkiin. If you want to upgrade him then you can ask yourself. I'm fine with the current profile.
 
Neutral on whether he should be Low 2-C or not, since the argument can go either way. But he should definitely get an upgrade to his durability with his shield.
 
I don't have the time to go asking for input on my own, and in addition there is a glitch in my notifications that recurrently makes them disappear if I visit message walls. Sorry.
 
Matthew Schroeder and Ultima Reality are basically in charge of evaluating The Elder Scrolls statistics.
 
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