Lord Boros' scaling chain revision.

[Coomandar]

Ok this changes a lot. This pretty much makes it clear that if Boros wins, he would be the strongest being that there is in both humanity and space

of course he would been the strongest, winning Saitama would make anyone the strongest, this argument is actually very dumb….

Anyone who fights Saitama could be entitled like that and means nothing

 

[ZillertheBucko]

or winning the battle would just make boros the strongest between both of them lol, this is what this sentence meant.


theres no hidden meaning on saying that he is literally the second strongest character in the series

all doesn't mean both Coom, it means all.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Is Boros beat Saitama, according to this, he would be titled the "Strongest of them all," which could be interpreted as the strongest of the two groups: Humanity and the rest of the Universe.

Keyword is: if

Logically, if Boros did beat Saitama, he'd scale above Tatsumaki. There is no need to argue about that, we have Tatsumaki vs Saitama fight where full power Tatsumaki did no damage to Saitama.

If Saitama was defeated, then: Boros>Saitama>Tatsumaki

But he wasn't. Therefore, there is no reason to scale Boros to Tatsumaki such as how we do not scale him to Saitama

Btw, if we do that Boros would also scale to Blast. And not only that, he'd be 4-A regardless because you consider the possibility of him winning against Saitama

 

[Kachon123]

or winning the battle would just make boros the strongest between both of them lol, this is what this sentence meant.


theres no hidden meaning on saying that he is literally the second strongest character in the series

This would only make sense if it said " the strongest between them," and not, "the strongest between them all," as that implies more than just two individuals.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

For a comparison. Let's suppose I fight world's best chess player.

If I defeat world's chess best player, i'd be above 2nd, 3rd and 4th world's best players. Regardless if I'm a noob or the best at chest. That's what happens when you fight against the best/strongest in something. If you defeat them, you'd become the strongest/best in that

 

[Emerald]

Btw, if we do that Boros would also scale to Blast. And not only that, he'd be 4-A regardless because you consider the possibility of him winning against Saitama

Blast is in another dimension, so “strongest in the universe and humanity” would not apply to him

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Regardless where Blast is, he's still part of humanity. "Strongest in the universe" does not include Blast, but "Strongest in mankind" does, because he's part of mankind

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Keyword is: if

Logically, if Boros did beat Saitama, he'd scale above Tatsumaki. There is no need to argue about that, we have Tatsumaki vs Saitama fight where full power Tatsumaki did no damage to Saitama.

If Saitama was defeated, then: Boros>Saitama>Tatsumaki

But he wasn't. Therefore, there is no reason to scale Boros to Tatsumaki such as how we do not scale him to Saitama

incorrect, one massive issue

it would be a battle to decide who the strongest in the universe was, meaning that Saitama beating Boros would also prove that SAITAMA was the strongest, it's a 2 way statement that implies that both of them are contenders for first and second strongest

 

[Phoenks]

When Boros is claimed to be the strongest in the universe, it is explicitly not including humanity/Earth.

It is a battle for the strongest in the universe because if Boros wins then obviously he would be at the top of everyone for defeating Saitama lol. Same thing that Normal Person is saying...

 

[ZillertheBucko]

When Boros is claimed to be the strongest in the universe, it is explicitly not including humanity/Earth.

It is a battle for the strongest in the universe because if Boros wins then obviously he would be at the top of everyone for defeating Saitama lol. Same thing that Normal Person is saying...

incorrect, one massive issue

it would be a battle to decide who the strongest in the universe was, meaning that Saitama beating Boros would also prove that SAITAMA was the strongest, it's a 2 way statement that implies that both of them are contenders for first and second strongest

ofc, this still all depends on the TL, so it's subject to change, but if the statement is accurate then there's no way to escape at least Boros having a possibly rating to scale above Tats with.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

also I would have additional corroborating evidence that could be used to make the statement more consistent...if DAMAGE DIDN'T ******* STONEWALL MY UPGRADE THREAD FOR TWO ******* MONTHS

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

incorrect, one massive issue

it would be a battle to decide who the strongest in the universe was, meaning that Saitama beating Boros would also prove that SAITAMA was the strongest, it's a 2 way statement that implies that both of them are contenders for first and second strongest

I mean, it's the strongest in all the universe but humanity vs the strongest in all humanity. Logically, who wins that would be the strongest in the universe

For a comparison. Let's suppose I fight world's best chess player.

If I defeat world's chess best player, i'd be above 2nd, 3rd and 4th world's best players. Regardless if I'm a noob or the best at chest. That's what happens when you fight against the best/strongest in something. If you defeat them, you'd become the strongest/best in that

 

[Gasper]

So he gets downgraded?

 

[ItsOnlyDanny3]

do i need to remind you that if she affected a MUCH stronger (current) Saitama, its OBVIOUS that she was definetely holding back against intraining saitama? I didnt think i’d had to remove that scaling too so soon.

How much stronger was Saitama when Tatsumaki was fighting him? It's true that he still trains everyday, but it's unclear to me how much power he gains from that. The Garou fight shows us his power skyrockets when he experiences a surge of emotion, and that was the first time in years he experienced anything like that. How can we tell he is 'much' stronger now than he was when Boros fought him? And by what amount did he even get stronger?

 

[Damage3245]

also I would have additional corroborating evidence that could be used to make the statement more consistent...if DAMAGE DIDN'T ******* STONEWALL MY UPGRADE THREAD FOR TWO ******* MONTHS

Dude, calm down. Why am I the only staff member that you turn to for this?

You commenting like this makes me want to engage with your threads less.

 

[Phoenks]

今ここに､人類最強うちゅうさいきょう宇宙最強の戦いが始まる。

Now here begins the battle for the strongest of them all, the strongest in the human race and the strongest in the universe.

Okay so I've asked three people who know some Japanese and

"for the strongest of them all" is not in this text.


It's just

"Here and now begins the battle between humanity's strongest and the universe's strongest!"

 

[ZillertheBucko]

yeah it's a mistranslation.
not much to be done about that

 

[Tural2004]

Disagree with CRT. We should obviously scale Boros above Blast and "God".

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Disagree with CRT. We should obviously scale Boros above Blast and "God".

neither apply to the statement due to not being in the universe
this was already covered in the last crt as well.

 

[Tural2004]

neither apply to the statement due to not being in the universe
this was already covered in the last crt as well.

Nah, Blast is still part of humanity. Since Boros is only second to Saitama, he should scale to Blast.

Btw, I am joking if it wasn't obvious enough. I agree with CRT

 

[FantaRin_The_First]

So, anyhow... When this CRT gets applied, what does Boros scale to again? Somewhere in the Petaton range? I vaugely remember that was the H6A range that Boros was in.

 

[ImposingTiger]

That's the exact reason why we don't scale Tatsumaki to Boros: he wasn't aware Tatsumaki attacked him, therefore he wasn't aware of that fight to begin with

That's an incorrect interpretation. What you have to ask yourself here is: Why wasn't Saitama aware of Tatsumaki's attack (which, by the way, he absolutely was, he even comments on the attack, he just didn't know who was the person attacking him)? That lack of recognition comes from the fact that she wasn't strong enough for him. If she were, he would have noticed, as he noticed Boros was strong.

Here we are again. Saitama didn't call Garou strong even after he survived his two-handed consecutive normal punches, while one-handed destroyed Boros, so Boros>Garou>CNP>Boros?

Also, he didn't call strong neither Orochi, nor EOW, despite in both cases he used a serious series against them

He didn't, because he wasn't strong enough. The reason why Boros got destroyed by CNP and Garou survived a two-handed CNP is because he wasn't trying to kill Garou. He even makes a promise to Tareo (who very much cares for both of them) that everything would be alright, and he treats Garou like a guy on a costume during the whole fight. Even the original idea of the manga was that Saitama and Garou sat at a table and had a conversation about it. Saitama only starts to see Garou as a real monster when he evolves into his Cosmic Fear Mode.

Would you the say that Rover must scale above Orochi, because he tanked a normal punch while Orochi could not? Context is a factor.

Yeah, he also used a SP against Elder Centipede, and that's why context matters. One, Orochi's Gaia Cannon matched Serious Squirt Gun, and that tells us absolutely nothing about his strength. We don't know how strong is SSG compared to a Normal Punch or a Serious Punch. It's literally impossible to measure. Second, Saitama using a serious attack against Evil Ocean Water doesn't contradict anything. I don't even know why you're bringing it and Orochi up. For the same reason SP was used against EC, it could have been used against EOW. King explains that due to EC's size, it remains could destroy the city and thus Saitama needed to end EC quickly and abruptly. I don't know why this can't be the case here as well.

In fact we can tell the difference in seriousness between Boros and Orochi because Saitama's fight with the latter is filled with jokes (the lava, the squirt gun...), and he even tells Orochi he is just a neighbor complaining about the noise. He later points to the possibility that assuming the (Monster King is somewhat strong), Orochi might be his child. There's levels to this.

Damaged*

So 4-A Boros? But, oh wait... Saitama stated he didn't feel anything while fighting monsters

Damaged, yes. It's irrelevant. Damage can have a lot of degrees in someone's body. I can be damaged by exploding due to a cannon ball, but I also can be damaged because my little borther kicks me in the shin. In the second case, damage isn't visible, but I have felt a minimum amount of pain, which is still a degree of damage.

Not necessarily. Boros can deal a minimum amount of damage to Saitama, but that doesn't mean Boros is a threat to him. This is shown by the difference between Released (who despite minimally damaging Saitama isn't perceived as a threat) and Meteoric Burst, who receives a way more convincing statement ("this is almost a real fight"), showing there's levels to threatening Saitama.

Also, the scan you posted talks about Saitama's feelings emotionally, not about Saitama not feeling anything physically, and I already explained why Saitama can be bored against different levels of powers, but still be judgemental about them.

A joke that twitched his muscles and he couldn't contain, it also impressed him, despite being unable to tell the difference between her and Fubuki at first

Yes, a joke. Saitama is constantly saying during their fight that he just wants to go home, he doesn't want to be there. Why would he not want to be there if she were stronger than Boros? Saitama's whole purpose in life is to find a proper fight, or a fight that looks interesting to him. He just likes (sometimes) Tatsumaki's moves like the tornado one beacause it looks fun to do, not because he consideres it a strong attack. He twitches his muscles while being first exposed to TK powers, and literally in the next pages (where Tatsumaki is exerting the same power on him) he is able to talk casually. He couldn't contain it because he doesn't know how to deal with Tatsumaki's powers without killing her, all Saitama can do is grab her and take her out of the city. He could always punch her and end the sparring match there, but he can't do that, obviously, so of course he says he can't contain her.

Sage Centipede and EOW scale to Tatsumaki's twist, which, as seen in Tatsu vs Saitama fight, is not her full power. If you want to use that as an argument, go do a CRT to accept that first

Also, now that you've mentioned it, God considered Tatsumaki worth to be its avatar, something Garou only replicated after he obtained his full monster form... I guess that argument is not good either

I don't need to make a CRT to express my thoughts on a determinate subject here. Regardless of what they scale to, the narrative and actual showings of the manga makes it look very clear: God is observing the whole surface fight. He sees Tatsumaki vs Psykorochi and witnesses Tatsumaki's power at that certain point in time (I agree that that's not her full strength and that she was limited, but God was able to sense Tatsumaki's power when twitching and one shoting Psykorochi). Then decides to take Tatsumaki out by giving her brain damage. Even after having seen that, he acknowledges a higher power in the battlefield, "The Fist that has rebelled against God" and sends his two puppets (EOW and SC) to kill him. This belief that his minions can kill a being stronger than Tatsumaki, makes it obvious that:

SG/EOW > Saitama's power perceived by God > Tatsumaki's power against Psykorochi.

Yes, he was worthy, as well as Orochi and Psykos, and later Orochi's surviving core, and Evil Natural Water. God offers his powers to those who seek for them (Homeless Emperor comes to my mind as well), not to those who are on the top the food chain, necessarily. Garou's mind was closed to receiving them. He wanted to rule over any human or monster on Earth, he wanted to be Absolute Evil, God himself. His perfected martial arts was even called a God Slayer fist. God only saw that opportunity on him when Garou was hopeless and knew he couldn't do anything in his power to beat Saitama.

Ah shit, another time this "you're strong" stuff... going by their profiles, this Garou is above Orochi and EOW, yet Saitama used a serious punch against EOW, but not against Garou

I already explained above why this reasoning is blatantly wrong and why Serious Series doesn't always correlate to his opponents's power, context matters a lot here.

Boros himself

Did you read my reasoning? You didn't even address it.

 

[Phoenks]

So, anyhow... When this CRT gets applied, what does Boros scale to again? Somewhere in the Petaton range? I vaugely remember that was the H6A range that Boros was in.

He scales to his ship durability

Until I downgrade that too

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Until I downgrade that too

by the way you can't say that air friction would have reduced the AP of him landing back either, since that Murata statement from before had him saying that Saitama still had no friction when he reentered (cause of Boros' energy) so I'm gonna just put hat out there.

 

[Phoenks]

by the way you can't say that air friction would have reduced the AP of him landing back either, since that Murata statement from before had him saying that Saitama still had no friction when he reentered (cause of Boros' energy) so I'm gonna just put hat out there.

It's not about that actually. It's more that most of the energy was put into the moon rather than the ship.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

It's not about that actually. It's more that most of the energy was put into the moon rather than the ship.

or just point out that it's technically an LS feat since saitama was already touching the moon with his legs
that makes it easier for ya.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Oh, and btw, to back it up that the statement of the Databook may be hyping Boros: Databook says Geryunganshoop is the strongest esper, but does the same for Tatsumaki.

And Murata himself thought Orochi was above the three candres (which includes Geryunganshoop) because "after all, it's not even sure if Tatsumaki could defeat him", and directly scaled Tatsumaki above Geryunganshoop in terms of strength

Why is it hyping Boros and why does it have any importance to what I said? By "strongest telekinetic in the universe" probably refers to the beings outside humanity. The databook during the DMT arc is constantly throwing the narrative about "Universe vs humanity", so it's literally what Coom said in the OP. They are not overhyping anyone, Geryu is just the strongest telekinetic in the universe, bar those among planet Earth.

 

[ImposingTiger]

do i need to remind you that if she affected a MUCH stronger (current) Saitama, its OBVIOUS that she was definetely holding back against intraining saitama? I didnt think i’d had to remove that scaling too so soon.

Except she was never seen affecting Saitama.

 

[ImposingTiger]

Tatsumaki impressed Saitama the entire fight and Saitama never considered her a joke, wtf are you even sayin’?

Saitama literally wanted to go home, she doesn0t consider Tatsumaki a threat. Released Boros damaged Saitama (to a minimum extent) and Meteoric Burst is "almost a real fight". Meanwhile, there is a narrator statement that Saitama is "Effortlessly Unharmed" against Tatsumaki.

 

[Phoenks]

or just point out that it's technically an LS feat since saitama was already touching the moon with his legs
that makes it easier for ya.

Damn so true and Boros scales

 

[Coomandar]

Keyword is: if

Logically, if Boros did beat Saitama, he'd scale above Tatsumaki. There is no need to argue about that, we have Tatsumaki vs Saitama fight where full power Tatsumaki did no damage to Saitama.

If Saitama was defeated, then: Boros>Saitama>Tatsumaki

But he wasn't. Therefore, there is no reason to scale Boros to Tatsumaki such as how we do not scale him to Saitama

Btw, if we do that Boros would also scale to Blast. And not only that, he'd be 4-A regardless because you consider the possibility of him winning against Saitama

this is pretty much simple to understand.
Thank you

 

[ZillertheBucko]

this is pretty much simple to understand.
Thank you

Wrong and wrong again but it’s getting tossed due to translation errors.

 

[Coomandar]

it was a battle to decide who is stronger, the strongest in the universe or the strongest in the humanity.


theres NO implying that boros was the second strongest character at that time.

 

[Coomandar]

Blast is in another dimension, so “strongest in the universe and humanity” would not apply to him

this is ridiculous and makes no sense at all. Ofc blast is included. Just proofs that this is a hyperbolic statement.

 

[Coomandar]

How much stronger was Saitama when Tatsumaki was fighting him? It's true that he still trains everyday, but it's unclear to me how much power he gains from that. The Garou fight shows us his power skyrockets when he experiences a surge of emotion, and that was the first time in years he experienced anything like that. How can we tell he is 'much' stronger now than he was when Boros fought him? And by what amount did he even get stronger?

he has progressive growth, so…
theres one Audiobook where two saitama’s fought, the one who was 1 day older ONE SHOTTED the other one.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

That's an incorrect interpretation. What you have to ask yourself here is: Why wasn't Saitama aware of Tatsumaki's attack (which, by the way, he absolutely was, he even comments on the attack, he just didn't know who was the person attacking him)? That lack of recognition comes from the fact that she wasn't strong enough for him. If she were, he would have noticed, as he noticed Boros was strong.

That means Saitama's durability is above Tatsumaki's AP by a so high margen he doesn't even notice her attacks. So, unless you want to argue Boros' AP is near Saitama's durability (4-A), that won't pass here.

Saitama didn't even know telekinesis was affecting him (because he couldn't see and TK is remote), but he knew Boros was attacking him.

He didn't, because he wasn't strong enough. The reason why Boros got destroyed by CNP and Garou survived a two-handed CNP is because he wasn't trying to kill Garou.

Source? Because that's not accepted in the wiki. And Boros is nowhere near Garou's tier (hell, even in the thread regarding consistence of Saitama's punches, it's argued that Garou would scale to Boros, not otherwise).

He even makes a promise to Tareo (who very much cares for both of them) that everything would be alright, and he treats Garou like a guy on a costume during the whole fight.

Doesn't killing ≠ Doing little damage. Hell, he posteriously threw a punch that completely destroyed Garou's shell.

Even the original idea of the manga was that Saitama and Garou sat at a table and had a conversation about it. Saitama only starts to see Garou as a real monster when he evolves into his Cosmic Fear Mode.

Retconed out so doesn't matter

Would you the say that Rover must scale above Orochi, because he tanked a normal punch while Orochi could not? Context is a factor.

What does that even matter here? Using context, you could argue Saitama was holding back specifically so Boros had his dream fight

Yeah, he also used a SP against Elder Centipede, and that's why context matters.

To make the minimal damage to the enviroment. There is no proof he did the same with neither Orochi nor EOW

One, Orochi's Gaia Cannon matched Serious Squirt Gun, and that tells us absolutely nothing about his strength. We don't know how strong is SSG compared to a Normal Punch or a Serious Punch.

it still is a serious move.

It's literally impossible to measure. Second, Saitama using a serious attack against Evil Ocean Water doesn't contradict anything. I don't even know why you're bringing it and Orochi up. For the same reason SP was used against EC, it could have been used against EOW.

Headcanon.

Why did I bring this up? Because Saitama used a serious punch against beings weaker than Garou, meaning that "Saitama was casual to Garou but serious against Boros" argument -which has been rejected countless time in the past- means nothing

In fact we can tell the difference in seriousness between Boros and Orochi because Saitama's fight with the latter is filled with jokes (the lava, the squirt gun...), and he even tells Orochi he is just a neighbor complaining about the noise. He later points to the possibility that assuming the (Monster King is somewhat strong), Orochi might be his child. There's levels to this.

Here we go again. Saitama didn't go serious against Garou until He copied his serious punch, even after he matched his CNP, Saitama still was casual.

Remember, CNP nearly killed Boros

Damaged, yes. It's irrelevant. Damage can have a lot of degrees in someone's body. I can be damaged by exploding due to a cannon ball, but I also can be damaged because my little borther kicks me in the shin. In the second case, damage isn't visible, but I have felt a minimum amount of pain, which is still a degree of damage.

Any of them would make you scale into AP. And considering Saitama's insides are as strong as his outsides and it couldn't even be damaged by pressure points attacks, it'd make Boros 4-A. So outlier

Hell, even if you assume Boros damaged Saitama in his 2nd form with a normal punch, why didn't his Meteoric Burst cause any notable damage into Saitama if it is the greatest boost of power? Again, damage is either a Boros' dialogue, or hyperbole

Not necessarily. Boros can deal a minimum amount of damage to Saitama, but that doesn't mean Boros is a threat to him. This is shown by the difference between Released (who despite minimally damaging Saitama isn't perceived as a threat) and Meteoric Burst, who receives a way more convincing statement ("this is almost a real fight"), showing there's levels to threatening Saitama.

Yet Released damaged him but Meteoric Burst didn't even cause him to get a little amount of damage. If a punch of Released caused him to get damage (it'd be 4-A), then a charged attack would make him get damaged too. And a normal punch of Meteoric Burst is stronger than a charged attack of Released. Yet Saitama didn't get any damage

Yes, a joke. Saitama is constantly saying during their fight that he just wants to go home, he doesn't want to be there.

Seems you only take the dialogue you want. That was Saitama previous to seeing Tatsumaki's full power, and was because he lost motivation

At the end, Saitama told Tatsumaki he couldn't contend her and that she trained well. If that's not acknowledge, then "You're strong" isn't too

Why would he not want to be there if she were stronger than Boros?

By the same way he didn't care about Garou despite the latter countered his CNP: Saitama being delusional, something introducted after Boros' arc.

He twitches his muscles while being first exposed to TK powers, and literally in the next pages (where Tatsumaki is exerting the same power on him) he is able to talk casually.

The same happened with Boros, yet you're claiming that Boros' damage is real

He couldn't contain it because he doesn't know how to deal with Tatsumaki's powers without killing her,

As if there wasn't many times where Saitama knocked down his opponents...

He could always punch her and end the sparring match there, but he can't do that, obviously, so of course he says he can't contain her.

As if it was the first time Saitama punches a human...

I don't need to make a CRT to express my thoughts on a determinate subject here.

Yes, you need, if you're using something to back up your claim. You can't say "But SC scales above Tatsumaki's full power" when it's not accepted.

Regardless of what they scale to, the narrative and actual showings of the manga makes it look very clear: God is observing the whole surface fight. He sees Tatsumaki vs Psykorochi and witnesses Tatsumaki's power at that certain point in time (I agree that that's not her full strength and that she was limited, but God was able to sense Tatsumaki's power when twitching and one shoting Psykorochi).

Not her full power, though. Accepted in the same CRT that removed SC scaling to Tatsumaki

Then decides to take Tatsumaki out by giving her brain damage. Even after having seen that, he acknowledges a higher power in the battlefield, "The Fist that has rebelled against God" and sends his two puppets (EOW and SC) to kill him. This belief that his minions can kill a being stronger than Tatsumaki, makes it obvious that:

SG/EOW > Saitama's power perceived by God > Tatsumaki's power against Psykorochi

Oh, well, you used something accepted

Yes, he was worthy, as well as Orochi and Psykos, and later Orochi's surviving core, and Evil Natural Water.

The difference is: God didn't give its hand to none of them, but to Garou and Tatsumaki

Why is it hyping Boros and why does it have any importance to what I said? By "strongest telekinetic in the universe" probably refers to the beings outside humanity.

Ok, so "in the universe" refers to beings outside humanity. Good you accepted that, the same happens with Boros

The databook during the DMT arc is constantly throwing the narrative about "Universe vs humanity", so it's literally what Coom said in the OP. They are not overhyping anyone, Geryu is just the strongest telekinetic in the universe, bar those among planet Earth.

So, the same happens to Boros. So, the only reason Boros scaling to Tatsumaki was accepted is invalid. Good you accepted that

 

[Coomandar]

Except she was never seen affecting Saitama.

From someone who said that Boros damaged Saitama, i couldnt expect much of you anyway.

 

[Coomandar]

Anyway, once this is accepted and closed, intraining saitama is my next target, along sage centipede, ENO and Monster Garou.

 

[JustANormalPerson01]

Saitama used a ! against Tatsumaki, something that only was replicated to Meteoric Burst Boros! I guess holding back Tatsumaki scales to Boros

From someone who said that Boros damaged Saitama, i couldnt expect much of you anyway.

 

[ZillertheBucko]

Anyway, once this is accepted and closed, intraining saitama is my next target, along sage centipede, ENO and Monster Garou.

have fun wanking the annoying side character