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LOL Dark Star / Cosmic Court Downgrade
- Thread starter Monarch_Laciel
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It is relevant because it means that there are double standards.RegisNex1232 said:
I would not care about them because I would not have seen them as wrong.
They kinda have to to be capable of defeating people that devour time and space. People like Dark star Lux who do not exist in reality according to her quotes which hints that the cosmics and dark stars existed before the world itself was created much like the dawn and night bringers:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642595064396120086/684525988364943374/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642595064396120086/684524801502871643/unknown.png
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A) Ignored again, argument ad nauseum. At least this time you had the balls to admit it.
B) Yes, thats what consistent means. They did it before. Consistently. Thor (Marvel Comics) and Superman (Post-Crisis) destroy walls and buildings immensely more consistently than he does planets and solar systems, should we downgrade them to tier 8? After all we know Thor has also been knocked out by a bullet and consistently harmed by tier 8 opponents. As for the second part it HAS been done demonstrably instantly, something you continue to simply refuse to acknowledge.
C) You have consistently ignored evidence or taken pieces out of context to suit your own arguments rather than look at everything as a big picture as it is meant to be taken as. Your lore interpretation and the actual lore interpretation are two wildly different things, especially considering you think that you can get the entirety of the Dark Stars feats and scaling just from skimming through only the lore of the Dark Stars. God its like im talking to an arrogant brick wall.
Okay then, i'll put this in bold and italics too.
You don't understand the lore well enough to say anything about it. Every argument you have made thus far has been based on incomplete or ill-informed knowledge and your own personal opinion of what you think these characters should be rather than what they are actually portrayed as coupled with a refusal to listen to anyone who gives a conflicting opinion. I could bring a statement from the development team for the game saying that the Dark Stars individually can instantly destroy the multiverse and you'd cry outlier. Your stonewalling is not you being correct, you spouting that points have been debunked does not make them so, and you making an argument does not mean its accurate.
B) Yes, thats what consistent means. They did it before. Consistently. Thor (Marvel Comics) and Superman (Post-Crisis) destroy walls and buildings immensely more consistently than he does planets and solar systems, should we downgrade them to tier 8? After all we know Thor has also been knocked out by a bullet and consistently harmed by tier 8 opponents. As for the second part it HAS been done demonstrably instantly, something you continue to simply refuse to acknowledge.
C) You have consistently ignored evidence or taken pieces out of context to suit your own arguments rather than look at everything as a big picture as it is meant to be taken as. Your lore interpretation and the actual lore interpretation are two wildly different things, especially considering you think that you can get the entirety of the Dark Stars feats and scaling just from skimming through only the lore of the Dark Stars. God its like im talking to an arrogant brick wall.
Okay then, i'll put this in bold and italics too.
You don't understand the lore well enough to say anything about it. Every argument you have made thus far has been based on incomplete or ill-informed knowledge and your own personal opinion of what you think these characters should be rather than what they are actually portrayed as coupled with a refusal to listen to anyone who gives a conflicting opinion. I could bring a statement from the development team for the game saying that the Dark Stars individually can instantly destroy the multiverse and you'd cry outlier. Your stonewalling is not you being correct, you spouting that points have been debunked does not make them so, and you making an argument does not mean its accurate.
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Non of those quotes are what I am talking about, I am talkin gabout the dev quotes about the Dark stars seeing time as an outmodded tool used by mortals. That implies faaar more than just looking, they see it as an outmodded tool implying that they do not need or use it. expecially with Jhin's quote.Monarch Laciel said:
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Btw a quote by Dark Star Rhaast I dont know if this have been brought up:
"The entrails of countless realities are shattering in my wake!"
"The entrails of countless realities are shattering in my wake!"
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I mean you still ned to show that quote though? Don't be like Weekly in repeating stuff and acting like you're right and the others are idiotic for not agreeing. And double standards still don't belong here, given that you've been repeating this as if it means anything without showing why.
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Let me just remind you of one of the quotes from the Event Horizon short story that was released within the past few daysRocker1189 said:
They came, one by one. Shining beacons, formed of constellations, each burning with endless starfire, the potential of creation aflame within their beings.
The cosmic court was formed from constellations. There would need to be constellations first for the cosmic court to be from them. This is thematically consistent with the origins of the various corruptants:
Spawned from the remnants of a star system crippled by famine, Cho'Gath is driven to feed on any celestial body that crosses his path.
The remnants of a once lush and enormous exo-planet, the Dark Star consumed and reformed the broken cluster of planetary debris into a twisted consciousness, ever pulling others into its orbit, and unleashing oblivion upon all who cross its path. (Malphite)
Shaco was once a region of space known for raucous celebration, wiped clean by the Dark Star and reborn into the mocking visage of a jester. His twisted cackling reaches inhabited systems long before he does, provoking visions of destruction, and societal breakdowns that will soon feed his endless hunger.
The Dark Star itself might have existed before the universe, but the corruptants and court did not. At best the court came into existence at the same time as the universe did.
Also
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642595064396120086/684525988364943374/unknown.png
This quote means nothing. It's an intimidating boast.
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642595064396120086/684524801502871643/unknown.png
Empty space is also nothing, before the court added stars and light to the universe. There is no reason to assume "nothing" means the absence of space-time itself when a much more reasonable assumption exists.
On that note, the scan for Lightbringer and Duskbringer has the same stretched interpretation of "nothing", but I'll settle for the Event Horizon universe for now.
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I have told you the situation with the quote you were in the speed threads when it was brought up and posted so unless you decided not to read it this is the best I could do, the wayback machine can not find it and all we have is Assalt's word. If you dont acept it I guess that is that. I am not acting like anyone is idiotic dude I am not like you.RegisNex1232 said:
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Not everything that debunks your argument is a character being boastful you know
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Its canonically stated by the devs that there was a lack of space-time for both the cosmic/dark star universes and the lightbringer/duskbringer universesMonarch Laciel said:
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Maybe cool it? You fellas ain't exactly being the pinnacle of staff to look upon are ya? With your constant mockery of each other. Remain objective and if you're getting so aggravated That you need to put it in bold and italics, take a walk and get back when you're able to talk without humiliating the other.
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I dont mean this for every Dark star and Cosmic of course people like Kassaddin and thresh are a different story.Monarch Laciel said:
...an intimidating boast:
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642595064396120086/684522749548691470/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/642595064396120086/684523381621915696/unknown.png
not everything is a boast just because it goes agains t your point dude...
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I mean if it isn't there then why bring it up and use Assalt as your source now? I know they were deleted, I'm waiting to see if this has been stated elsewhere rather than on a deleted forum. So yes, the burden of proof is on you and Weekly, to show and prove your arguments.
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@Monarch You sure do like to claim that a lot of canonically non-boastful characters suddenly become boastful and arrogant out of the blue a lot
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You keep saying this, but you have not once provided any proof.WeeklyBattles said:
C) You have consistently ignored evidence or taken pieces out of context to suit your own arguments rather than look at everything as a big picture as it is meant to be taken as. Your lore interpretation and the actual lore interpretation are two wildly different things, especially considering you think that you can get the entirety of the Dark Stars feats and scaling just from skimming through only the lore of the Dark Stars.
That is absolutely not what I have done. I haven't skimmed. I haven't ignored. I have carefully looked at the pieces and put them together. You are the one ignoring half the puzzle in favour of jamming pieces together to make the picture you want.
God its like im talking to an arrogant brick wall.
I don't think you're one to talk about arrogance Weekly.
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I bring it up because it was something that existed and is the literal link we have. You know they were deleted which means yo uknow they existed and then your point is "well dont bring it up". I dont get your logic.RegisNex1232 said:
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Because it was there, then got deleted along with the entire forum board. Assalt saw it before it was deleted and accepted itRegisNex1232 said:
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Nothing "gnawing at my dreams" isn't even indicative of anything, let alone something that goes against my point.Rocker1189 said:
"I am the nothing" yeah, now he is maybe, given that he's literally a living black hole and that's a close to "pure nothing" as any celestial object. But that doesn't mean he always was, and even if he was nothing from the moment he was born, that doesn't suddenly extrapolate to mean he existed before time.
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And do you think Monarch os just going to take Assalt's word for it? Seriously, after everything in this thread? He ants actual proof to go through, not just someone's say-so.
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But now, those forums are gone, and what he accepted no longer exists. If it no longer exists and no record of it does either, its canonicity is questionable at best, as is its place in an argument.WeeklyBattles said:
So stop using it as a shield, because you're literally trying to use something that doesn't exists as a point. If it did exist, at least it would be something that could be argued against, but as it stands there isn't even anything to argue against in the first place.
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Youre looking at the pieces of an incomplete puzzle. Youre not making an accurate argument because you by your own admission have not read all of the lore required to understand what you are talking about here. If im jamming pieces together then youre filling in the massive gaps of the puzzle with whatever you think it should look like instead of what it actually looks like.Monarch Laciel said:
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those are both quotes from Lux "gnawing at my dreams" is cosmic lux as she is getting corrupted by the Dark Star.Monarch Laciel said:
"I am nothing" yeah DS lux has bececome nothing which if you then do a basic linked to what I put above, means that she is not boasting about peelin gback reality and finding here as she literally exists as nothingness outside of reality iself, what does this mean for speed as our standards are, imeeasurable speed. this is couple with the quotes we cant link for reasons stated.
and are we ignoring Rhaast's statement?
"The entrails of countless realities are shattering in my wake!"
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But these pieces you say exist, which would apparently disprove my entire argument, you have not presented any of. So why should I consider them?WeeklyBattles said:
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I disagree with the OP. And the part of speed where they shoot arrow that become contellations, the minor distance of the smallest constellation of the universe have several light years, and in the time-lap that they shoot that, is something MFTL+.
About the discuss, what is discussed rn? i can't read 200 messages, someone can give me a summary?
About the discuss, what is discussed rn? i can't read 200 messages, someone can give me a summary?
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Lux being corrupted by the Dark Star is not a speed feat.Rocker1189 said:
Having non-existent physiology does not mean you have immeasurable speed.
Rhaast's statement is consistent with existing lore of the Dark Stars having destroyed realities before. It does not disprove anything I have said about their methods.
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Monarch are you legitimately asking why you should consider taking into account lore that disproves your argument?
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What exactly are you disagreeing with? If all you are saying is that shooting arrows that become stars light years across from each other should be MFTL+ instead of MFTL, then sure. I'm not a calc person, I have no idea how fast these arrows would need to be to form a constellation like that.Alonik said:
The discussion is fundamentally over if the corruptants can destroy universes instantly. I have given several quotes with timeframes showing that they destroy the universes over time. Weekly has given several quotes with no timeframes stated and is arguing that no timeframe given means instant.
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It wasnt meant to be..it was giving context to the next post.Monarch Laciel said:
existing outside of time-and space dioes however, its not simple non-existent physiology she states herself that you have to peel back reality.
Except Rhaast states in my wake, not in our wake or i its wake.
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If it helps the closest constellation is 4.244 light years away. So unless the feat took over 1.55 days it's MFTL+.
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best I can put it:Alonik said:
forums were deleted so a few quotes are done for.
we only have our word for a coupel of them unfortunately littered throughout the wiki.
speed is being discussed based on other quotes that we do have evidence for luckily enough.
DS Rhaast's statement is now bwing discussed.
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If the board has been deleted, then that account lore has been removed too you know. Why should it be considered canon anymore?WeeklyBattles said:
And even if we do consider it canon, why on earth should we consider what you say there used to be there if you can't even prove it?
If I started making profiles using some writing that only one existed of in the world, and then that text was destroyed, why should what I wrote become some involatile piece of absolute fact? If anything, the fact that no evidence of it exists anymore other than hearsay would be grounds for removal of it from the wiki. Not that the Dark Stars would be removed of course, but the remaining evidence paints a very different picture to the one you have in your head.
I'll put this in another way. The scientific method has you making experiments that disprove your hypothesis, because making an experiment that is designed to prove your hypothesis inherently has a biased interpretation of the results. In this case, you attempting to use quotes from a board that no longer exists and no record of remains to back up your argument by saying "well it was accepted here" is akin to making an experiment which is impossible to disprove the hypothesis.
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Would also like to point out that DS Thresh constantly rfrs to himself in th third person so claiming that anything said about 'we did this' or 'this is our doing' meanign that it was multiple charcters is dishonest
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unfortunately going to be off for a while now, and I am sorry if I came across as rude to anyone, it was not my intention.
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You're making a few assumptions there. Mostly small ones, but they add up. Existing outside of space-time doesn't automatically give immeasurable speed for one thing. There needs to be at least some supporting feats. Embryo exists outside of space-time, but he's certainly not immeasurable in speed. Dark Cosmic Lux's other quotes indicates that she thinks of the existence of light and stars and other celestial objects to be "reality", so her saying "peel back reality" could just as easily mean simply destroying everything else until there's only the empty universe left, and there she is.Rocker1189 said:
And? Thresh states he's destroyed realities before in the singular. All other evidence still indicates they work by feeding bits of universes to the Dark Star until its strong enough to swallow the entire universe. And people say that they've done things in the singular even if they were doing it with a group all the time.
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I don't mean to be rude to you either, and I apologise if I'm coming across that way.Rocker1189 said:
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Embryo has 0 similarities with Dark Star entities and as you stated yourself supporting feats which I have put up with with statements from Jhin and thresh.Monarch Laciel said:
Except Rhaast is not the herald of the Dark star, Thresh is and the way Rhaasts describes it is far more personal.
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He also refers to himself in the singular plenty of times, so really its an either or situation. But given that the rest of the lore has the corruptants / dark cosmics explicity moving through space destroying celestial objects one by one, and Thresh's own lore has him guiding the Dark Star through space and feeding celestial objects to it, we know how he operates, and its more reasonable to assume he's continuing to operate in this way together with the Dark Star.WeeklyBattles said:
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Jhin is even more of a herald. He is closer to the Dark Star than Thresh. Lux follows the same path. Rhaast is just a weapon/experiment from the Dark Star. Corruptants/Corrupted see him as weird/"orphaned".
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