LOL Dark Star / Cosmic Court Downgrade

[WeeklyBattles]

Jhin literally says that he can destroy the entire universe instantly but just chooses not to

 

[WeeklyBattles]

- The Dark Star God, a living black hole which is capable of destroying universes, does not scale to the Corruptants. It is their god, them being weaker than it is inane.

Its almost like the Dark Star itself scales above the Dark Star Corruptants

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Plack, I really doubt you have ever read our Powerscaling rules for Marvel and DC page. I really, really doubt it.

It is not, actually. Is the very same reason why Limited 4-D doesn't make you go above tier 3 completely anymore. You aren't seeing anyone get that tier by destroying a pocket dimension with it's own time space.

Yet if it takes time, there are issues.

I never said that was hinted. Have you actually heard of the word Consistency?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

The dark Star itself would consume everything. Thresh himself consumed they void which is what he scales to. You clearly did not understand the scaling.
Attempting to do bigger things when your direct rivals (those being the Cosmics) still exist is downright stupid.

Fun fact.

"We have looked into the Void, and consumed it."

Uses plural, not singular. He's talking about all the corruptants doing it together (likely with the Dark Star God because that's their modus operandi), not just himself.

And before you argue "oh that's just how he talks, it's the royal we", here are many other quotes where he refers to himself in singular

"I am the herald of reality's end."

"I will carve my way across the stars."

"I will guide them beyond the brink of infinity."

"Soul or no, I will feed it to the nothingness."

"Infinity, rapture, I am their harbinger."

"Oh, how I long for the final kiss of annihilation." (something to note about this quote - interesting that he wouldn't just nuke everything if he longs for it so much, huh?)

"I envy those who journey into the nothingness." (same as above. He clearly wants to finish his job, feed everything to the dark star, then join it in oblivion. Weird that he hasn't already if he's really capable of destroying everything with a swing of his scythe)

"I will chain the very heavens and drag them down."

Look at you. I think I'll keep you... or not."

"My pull is inexorable."

"Feel my power."

"Their screams sing me to my eternal sleep."

 

[Rocker1189]

And what are they based on? I've been skimming the arguments and counters a couple of times because I wanted to get my mind off something else and not seeing much else.

Not only is the 5-D stuff being contested for the void, if not outright feeling rather insufficient when I read it, there seems to be far more consistent feats in a certain range from people that "should scale", putting that in contention.

The void as it currently is is 5-D and was directly consumed by thresh. And the others scale to him. That is a direct feat he did. In fact thresh sees the void as a worse version of the Dark Stars. The void is at least 2-A even ignoring the Low 1-C showings. This would make the Dark Stars at least 2-A.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

- The Dark Star God, a living black hole which is capable of destroying universes, does not scale to the Corruptants. It is their god, them being weaker than it is inane.

A little confused here. Do you mean that the DS God is weaker/stronger than the Corruptants, or just that the DS God has its own feat and doesn't scale to the Corruptants and vice versa?

Used the wrong word, should have been equal

The devs say the Dark Star itself is one of the strongest entities in the verse, above Dawnbringer and Duskbringer, but corruptants certainly aren't equal to it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>Uses plural, not singular. He's talking about all the corruptants doing it together (likely with the Dark Star God because that's their modus operandi), not just himself.

A bunch of characters destroying a 5-D realm doesnt discredit them destroying it. Hell a bunch of characters destroying an infinitely 3-D realm doesnt discredit it.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

>Uses plural, not singular. He's talking about all the corruptants doing it together (likely with the Dark Star God because that's their modus operandi), not just himself.

A bunch of characters destroying a 5-D realm doesnt discredit them destroying it. Hell a bunch of characters destroying an infinitely 3-D realm doesnt discredit it.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Jhin literally says that he can destroy the entire universe instantly but just chooses not to

No, he says "everything".

Which is vague as hell and could be interpreted to be anything from "everything in this section of space" to "everything in this galaxy" to "everything in this universe" to "everything in existence".

You're just choosing to interpret it to its highest possible interpretation while ignoring the much more logical interpretations based on actual overall context.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes im chosing that becaus he has multiple other statemets of being able to destroy the universe to back up the interpretation that he i saying he could destroy the universe.

 

[Rocker1189]

No, he says "everything".

Which is vague as hell and could be interpreted to be anything from "everything in this section of space" to "everything in this galaxy" to "everything in this universe" to "everything in existence".

You're just choosing to interpret it to its highest possible interpretation while ignoring the much more logical interpretations based on actual overall context.

Considering the level the operate at and the fact they literally view time as an outmoded tool yeah I am pretty sure everything being being the universe is a reasonable assumption. He could have just said a galaxy or galaxies. Or planets or stars. But he did not.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

>Uses plural, not singular. He's talking about all the corruptants doing it together (likely with the Dark Star God because that's their modus operandi), not just himself.
A bunch of characters destroying a 5-D realm doesnt discredit them destroying it. Hell a bunch of characters destroying an infinitely 3-D realm doesnt discredit it.

Them feeding it to the Dark Star in accordance with their usual modus operandi does though.

They likely just softened the place up a bit first, made some black holes and let their big "stronger than Duskbringer" god eat the main thing. That is how they destroy most universes, no reason to assume it was any different here.

Also again, all their other feats are just destroying galaxies and star systems in order to wipe out the universe over time. Destroying something 5D is an obvious outlier

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Yes im chosing that becaus he has multiple other statemets of being able to destroy the universe to back up the interpretation that he i saying he could destroy the universe.

Are literally any of those different statements beyond the ones where an obvious timeframe isn't given and makes it sound like a gradual process?

Is a single one implying something that doesn't take time?

 

[Rocker1189]

Also on the note if the Dark Star being above everyone else, you do know that they literally have the power to control it right? Dark Star Liz literally wants to rule the Dark Star itself. There is no way you can rule over something far more powerful than you. It is an entity not a place.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Honestly lowballing it to tier 4 or even 3-C is horribly inaccurate given that w have statements like Jhin saying that destroying a galaxy is a trivial matter and Lux saying she can destroy galaxies with a thought

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Wanting to do something and actually succeeding are not exactly equatable.

 

[RegisNex1232]

Also on the note if the Dark Star being above everyone else, you do know that they literally have the power to control it right? Dark Star Liz literally wants to rule the Dark Star itself. There is no way you can rule over something far more powerful than you. It is an entity not a place.

Yes you can rule over people far stronger than you. Did you not read Marvel/DC comics, or BNHA? It happens all the time. Having control over a stronger character than yourself (through whatever means) isn't something impossible.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Honestly lowballing it to tier 4 or even 3-C is horribly inaccurate given that w have statements like Jhin saying that destroying a galaxy is a trivial matter and Lux saying she can destroy galaxies with a thought

And you haven't provided anything like this to show the statements above are obviously not as consistent whyyyyyyyyy?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Sir I...did, did you not read?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

@Regis Glad you agree because the Devs said that the Dark Star is stronger than the Dawnbringer and Nightbringers which are Low 2-C

 

[RegisNex1232]

@Regis Glad you agree because the Devs said that the Dark Star is stronger than the Dawnbringer and Nightbringers which are Low 2-C

The Dark Star =/= The Dark Stars Champions/Cosmic Court Champions. It would be nice if you could stop making such ridiculous arguments and post what you claim is self-explanatory evidence.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

I actually did. Vague mentions of "everything" that are being attributed to 2-A at worst as far as I can see, other stuff that is outright vague, and... honestly, was that it?

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Honestly lowballing it to tier 4 or even 3-C is horribly inaccurate given that w have statements like Jhin saying that destroying a galaxy is a trivial matter and Lux saying she can destroy galaxies with a thought

He doesn't say it's "trivial". He says it is pedestrian and derivative. These are words that art critics use to describe bad art. Not words that indicate it is something super easy for him.

Regardless, you clearly missed me saying I was fine with 3-C. Which is unsurprising because over the course of this debate, you've skipped over a lot of things.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

None of those statements cited by Monarch even remotely hint that that's the extent of their power.

What you just said is the absolute definition of a no limits fallacy. You are seriously trying to argue that just because the lore doesn't say destroying galaxies are their limits, we should assume they can therefore destroy the multiverse.

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Except he is right most feats on this wiki that are high end do not have a given timeframe or are over time.

I will keep saying this.

It is quite bullshit to say you know of almost all feats in the site to be able to claim this comfortably.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Actually I may as well ask.

Is it ever stated anywhere that all the cosmic court / dark stars are equal to each other? Because on one end we have lulu making new stars and Xhin Zhao fighting brings who eat stars. And on the other end we have Lux destroying galaxies with a thought. That's a pretty large difference.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

just a little bump

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, its stated that they all regularly fight each other

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

Link to source please

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Ive alrady posted it

The fact that you keep claiming to have read everything about them but constantly need sources for things you already know to be true is honestly becoming rather annoying

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Imagine someone possibly being doubtful if there's something mentioned they don't remember, or potentially having a normal human mind and forgetting one thing among many.

Drop that tone, Weekly. Is not funny at all.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Im not trying to be funny, i am completely serious. The fact that not only was this thread made without knowing a massive and blatant part of the lore of the Dark Stars and Cosmic Court, but people just up and agreed with it really says a lot.

"Great horrors are attracted to the light of newborn stars—from the corruptants of the Dark Star, to squirming, ancient things yet unknown. Xin Zhao is the steadfast protector of these cosmic cradles, driving off any that would devour them. "

"Once a member of the Cosmic Court, Mordekaiser vanished from known space for an epoch—until now. Reborn and returned from an unknown destruction, Mordekaiser seems bent on unmaking the kingdoms of stars and light he once built. Though he still bears his Cosmic armor, the mind and figure within has been twisted and reforged to know only hatred and destruction."

Hell, Karma, the literal pascifist Dark Star who does nothing but float around and meditate in space, has a Galaxy level feat.

"Karma was a galaxy-spanning civilization dedicated to pacifism and personal enlightenment, unceremoniously erased from reality and reborn as a star-consuming horror. Devouring entire galactic systems, she enforces a dread order upon the cosmos, meditating in the vast oceans of emptiness where once there were stars."

And the Dark Cosmics, the ones with Galaxy level feats, are literally just random Celestial Court members who were turned into Dark Stars

PLUS Dark Cosmic Lux has a statement that all Dark Stars have the power to end galaxies

 

[LSirLancelotDuLacl]

Xin Zhao seems to be the only one with an actual comment about coming into conflict with them.

Mord has "bent on unmaking the kingdom of stars" without any direct comment on coming into direct conflict with anything in specific, unless that's meant to say he has obviously come into conflict with Xin, that has come into conflict with others.

I do believe it has already been said before that absorbing or being made of the energy of all starts on a Galaxy is actually 4-A. The devouring galaxies is way better, but I believe the issue is the same - no time frame.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Xin, Rhaast, Lux, Ashe, Mordekaiser, and Jhin all have statements of fighting

The galaxy level feats ar instantaneous as stated numerous times. Mord was directly stated to have fought dark Stars

Seriously the attempts at trying to downplay feats is starting to get ridiculous. Why not downgrade them all to planet level because Kha has a feat of eating planets?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

If we're truly downgrading them they will be Galaxy level, but until the 5-D thread is done thats not happening as both the Cosmics and Dark Stars have multiple feats and statements that scale them to Low 1-Cs

Seriously, almost all of Marvel and DC tier 2s and 1s have feats of destroying planets/stars/galaxies yet we dont downgrade them. Same with a lot of higher-tier anime, Dragon Ball tier 2s busting planets, Tier 1 TTGL destroying galaxies. Same with a lot of other higher tier video games. I genuinely dont understand what is so different about this.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'd assume this is because it's instantaneous for them, and a timeframe is given.

 

[WeeklyBattles]

Yes, a timeframe is given for the LoL characters in question, its instantaneous, literally stated to be done with a flick of the wrist/with a thought/instantly

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Where is the proof for that?

 

[WeeklyBattles]

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Lux#Dark Cosmic

"I've obliterated galaxies with a thought. You... who are you again?"

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Jhin#Dark Cosmic

"Just a snap of the wrist and everything's... gone."

https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com/wiki/Thresh#Dark Star

"Have you ever seen a thousand stars alight in a shared dawn? We have - just before we snuffed them out."

Varus' Lore

An interstellar titan containing multitudes within his eldritch mind, Varus serves the all-consuming Dark Star, a dread singularity born in the darkness of deep space. His arrival is a cataclysmic extinction event, erasing entire planetary systems as if they were never there.

 

[Monarch_Laciel]

That's all 3-C stuff, apart from the erasing planetary systems which is solar system level but he scales anyway. I don't know why you're arguing for it like I'm against it.

So what we have is consistently tier 3-4 and one single statement of a low 1-C feat with no further context, and you're trying to argue the tier 1 feat isn't an outlier?